Israel's Embarrassment - Israel's 25,0000 strong Jewish Problem in Tehran

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thereselittleflower

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"So Why Hasn’t Iran Started by Wiping Its Own Jews Off the Map?"


Israel's warmongering against Iran, its accusations that Iran is the next Nazi Germany and its president Mahmoud Ahmadinejad the new Hitler, is stopped cold by one sobering and impossible to ignore fact if one makes an effort to look at the reality on the ground:

Iran is home to the LARGEST Jewish communiy outside Israel in the middle east!

There are 25.000 Jews living happily in thier Jewish community in Tehran which is over 3,000 years old, and they have no intention of leaving.

They have many rights and priviledges, including the freedom of movement and travel even to Israel.

Israel has tried many times to entice them to leave and immgrate to Israel, but so far, less than 200 have taken Israel up on its offer.

Now Israel has tried to entice them by offering each family $60,000 to move to Israel. But no luck.

These Jews absolutely refuse seeing through such ofers for the trickery they are. They despise Zionism and what it representes and will have nothing to do with the State of Isarel.

And they stand in direct contradiction to all Israel claims regarding Iran's program to anihilate the Jews from the middle east. It is an abject lie on Israel's part, and this 25,000 strong community of Jews happily living in Iran are absolute proof of this lie.

This is a strong and heavy embarrasment for Israel that Israel wants erased. But so far, all attempts to do so have failed.

Earlier this year Binyamin Netanyahu, Israel’s opposition leader and the man who appears to be styling himself scaremonger-in-chief, told us:
“It’s 1938 and Iran is Germany. And Iran is racing to arm itself with atomic bombs.”​
Of Ahmadinejad, he said:
“He is preparing another Holocaust for the Jewish state.”​

There is an interesting problem with selling the “Iran as Nazi Germany” line. If Ahmadinejad really is Hitler, ready to commit genocide against Israel’s Jews as soon as he can get his hands on a nuclear weapon, why are some 25,000 Jews living peacefully in Iran and more than reluctant to leave despite repeated enticements from Israel and American Jews?[

.... the 25,000-strong Iranian Jewish community is the largest in the Middle East outside Israel and traces its roots back 3,000 years.

...Iranian Jews have little influence on decision-making and are not allowed to hold senior posts in the army or bureaucracy. But they enjoy many freedoms. They have an elected representative in parliament, they practice their religion openly in synagogues, their charities are funded by the Jewish diaspora, and they can travel freely, including to Israel. In Tehran there are six kosher butchers and about 30 synagogues. Ahmadinejad’s office recently made a donation to a Jewish hospital in Tehran.

.......The Ma’ariv newspaper pointed out that previous schemes [to entice Iranian Jews to Israe;] had found few takers. There was, noted the report, “a lack of desire on the part of thousands of Iranian Jews to leave”.

....To step up these efforts -- and presumably to avoid the embarrassing incongruence of claiming an imminent second Holocaust while thousands of Jews live happily in Tehran -- Israel is now backing a move by Jewish donors to guarantee every Iranian Jewish family $60,000 to settle in Israel, in addition to a host of existing financial incentives that are offered to Jewish immigrants, including loans and cheap mortgages.

The announcement was met with scorn by the Society of Iranian Jews, which issued a statement that their national identity was not for sale.
“The identity of Iranian Jews is not tradeable for any amount of money. Iranian Jews are among the most ancient Iranians. Iran’s Jews love their Iranian identity and their culture, so threats and this immature political enticement will not achieve their aim of wiping out the identity of Iranian Jews.”​

http://www.jkcook.net/Articles2/0304.htm#Top

What will be next to get rid of the 25,000 Jewish embarrassments to Israel's claims about Iran?

Read the article above for possibilities which may include their destruction.


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yod

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are you surprised by this revelation?

God told them all to leave before they were ever taken captive...they didn't go then either.

Isaiah 48:20 Go ye forth of Babylon, flee ye from the Chaldeans, with a voice of singing declare ye, tell this, utter it even to the end of the earth; say ye, The LORD hath redeemed his servant Jacob.



Again, He warned them to leave an evil dictator (Nebuchadnezzar) who was about to be judged in Jer 51

5 For Israel hath not been forsaken, nor Judah of his God, of the LORD of hosts; though their land was filled with sin against the Holy One of Israel. 6 Flee out of the midst of Babylon, and deliver every man his soul: be not cut off in her iniquity; for this is the time of the LORD's vengeance; he will render unto her a recompence.


They didn't obey God then...why would it surprise anyone that they don't listen now?
 
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yod

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and besides....this too has been prophesied since long ago



Zechariah 2


1I lifted up mine eyes again, and looked, and behold a man with a measuring line in his hand.

2Then said I, Whither goest thou? And he said unto me, To measure Jerusalem, to see what is the breadth thereof, and what is the length thereof.

3And, behold, the angel that talked with me went forth, and another angel went out to meet him,

4And said unto him, Run, speak to this young man, saying, Jerusalem shall be inhabited as towns without walls for the multitude of men and cattle therein:

5For I, saith the LORD, will be unto her a wall of fire round about, and will be the glory in the midst of her.

6Ho, ho, come forth, and flee from the land of the north, saith the LORD: for I have spread you abroad as the four winds of the heaven, saith the LORD.

7Deliver thyself, O Zion, that dwellest with the daughter of Babylon.

8For thus saith the LORD of hosts; After the glory hath he sent me unto the nations which spoiled you: for he that toucheth you toucheth the apple of his eye.

9For, behold, I will shake mine hand upon them, and they shall be a spoil to their servants: and ye shall know that the LORD of hosts hath sent me.

10Sing and rejoice, O daughter of Zion: for, lo, I come, and I will dwell in the midst of thee, saith the LORD.

11And many nations shall be joined to the LORD in that day, and shall be my people: and I will dwell in the midst of thee, and thou shalt know that the LORD of hosts hath sent me unto thee.

12And the LORD shall inherit Judah his portion in the holy land, and shall choose Jerusalem again.
13Be silent, O all flesh, before the LORD: for he is raised up out of his holy habitation.
 
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thereselittleflower

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You are still not getting it uod, or you are and you are deliberately taking this thread off topic. If this continues, I will ask for a thread split as provided for by the rules.

The topic is not your side issue.


The topic is ISRAEL'S EMBARRASSMENT caused by Jews who live happily in a country ISRAEL claims WANTS TO ANNIHILATE ALL JEWS off the face of the earth.

Obviously, this claim is not true, it is a hoax, perpetrated on the unwarry, and Iran and its leadership, rather than wanting to wipe all Jews off the face of the earth, have welcomed them and made a place for them in their society, and have done so for 3000 years.

Obviously, Israel is taking increasinly desparate measures to try to entice these Jews to ZIONIST Israel, so this obvious and huge fly in ISRAEL'S soup will dissapear.

Obviously these Jews see past the manipulations to the motivation of ZIONIST Israel and refuse to be ZIONIST Puppets so their embarrassment of Israel will go away.

OBVIOUSLY things are not as Isarel claims. . . . . and Tehran does NOT want to wipe all Jews off the face of the earth, for if they did, there would be no Jews in Tehran, let a lone a thriving, happy communiyt 25,000 strong that is perfectly content to stay there, EVEN THOUGH they do not experience all the rights and privieldges of muslims.

They stand in absolute direct contradiction to the ZIONIST propaganda that Iran is the "new Nazi German".

Their very existance exposes this ZIONIST LIE!.


And that fact you either have failed to notice, which means you didn't read the OP, or are deliberately trying to deflect attention away from.

Which is it yod?

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Tangeloper

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You are still not getting it uod, or you are and you are deliberately taking this thread off topic. If this continues, I will ask for a thread split as provided for by the rules.

The topic is not your side issue.


The topic is ISRAEL'S EMBARRASSMENT caused by Jews who live happily in a country ISRAEL claims WANTS TO ANNIHILATE ALL JEWS off the face of the earth.

Obviously, this claim is not true, it is a hoax, perpetrated on the unwarry, and Iran and its leadership, rather than wanting to wipe all Jews off the face of the earth, have welcomed them and made a place for them in their society, and have done so for 3000 years.

Obviously, Israel is taking increasinly desparate measures to try to entice these Jews to ZIONIST Israel, so this obvious and huge fly in ISRAEL'S soup will dissapear.

Obviously these Jews see past the manipulations to the motivation of ZIONIST Israel and refuse to be ZIONIST Puppets so their embarrassment of Israel will go away.

OBVIOUSLY things are not as Isarel claims. . . . . and Tehran does NOT want to wipe all Jews off the face of the earth, for if they did, there would be no Jews in Tehran, let a lone a thriving, happy communiyt 25,000 strong that is perfectly content to stay there, EVEN THOUGH they do not experience all the rights and privieldges of muslims.

They stand in absolute direct contradiction to the ZIONIST propaganda that Iran is the "new Nazi German".

Their very existance exposes this ZIONIST LIE!.


And that fact you either have failed to notice, which means you didn't read the OP, or are deliberately trying to deflect attention away from.

Which is it yod?

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Even though there are Jews and Christians who live in Iran, that doesn't mean it's actually a comfortable life. After all, Sharia Law, censorship, etc... is commonplace in Iran.

Besides, Ahmadinejad isn't even supported by the majority of Iranian (and Muslim) people living there anyway. I would hope that the people of Iran (of all faiths and ethnicities) would be successful in their attempts to change the government of Iran -- which includes Ahmadinejad, but is NOT limited to him.

I don't understand why you say that this is an embarrassment for Israel though. I also don't understand why you consistently post things like this. It really seems like nothing more than an attempt to slander Israel and the Jewish people. I've only been on this site for a few weeks, but every post I've seen of yours is fixated on this issue... I don't get that at all!

We are always asked to remember that the government of a country is not always representative of its people, but yet you are doing that right now re: Israel and Jewish people (and all other Israelites -- including Muslims)!

Using your logic it should be an extreme embarrassment to Palestinians, Iranians, the Lebanese, etc... that there are Muslims who live within Israel and live peaceful lives there as well -- wouldn't it???

Also, why is it wrong in the Palestinians/Iranians/Syrians' eyes for Israel to institute laws based upon religious beliefs in an effort to keep their religion strong, when Muslims do the exact same thing, but are even more intolerant of others (Sharia Law)???

The most important thing to remember in this conversation, IMHO, is that it is Ahmadinejad HIMSELF who says that he wants to "wipe Israel off the map". He denies the Holocaust even happened, and constantly disparages Jewish people. Why would he say these things if that was not his ultimate goal.

Honestly, I believe the only thing that is keeping Ahmadinejad from declaring war on Israel right now, is that he knows the majority of the world would NOT support him in this (at least not today).

However, there are many rumblings about Iran/Syria/Palestine attacking Israel in the very near future, so I guess we will all see what happens then, won't we?

Don't forget that China, Russia, Venezuela and several other countries are in active alliance with Iran and Syria.

I fully support Israel to defend themselves if attacked, and I hope others would as well... If a Muslim nation conquers them I see not evidence that they would even ALLOW Jews to live there -- despite their claims of Dhimmitude status for non-Muslims. The Muslims won't even allow Jews (or Christians) to access parts of the Temple Mount as it is right now!

IF Iran and Syria and their allies (various Radical Militant Islamic Groups) with the support of their "silent" partners like Russia and China who supply them their military goods it will not just be to retake Jerusalem and the Holy Lands.

Indeed, it will be the first strike against true FREEDOM for the world. It's the same historic battle over and over again -- this time with Radical Muslims working with the support of Communist/Fascist Dictators... Doesn't that sound a bit like USSR's old goals to you? Does it not sound like what was desired years ago in WWII when the Muslim forces joined with Hitler's NAZI forces?

If we are to respect each other, and love each other why can we not stop this type of fighting -- on both sides. May God protect Israel and ALL of her citizens, Muslim, Christians, Atheists, Agnostics, and Jews alike!!!
 
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thereselittleflower

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Even though there are Jews and Christians who live in Iran, that doesn't mean it's actually a comfortable life. After all, Sharia Law, censorship, etc... is commonplace in Iran.

Yes,. that is true, which makes it even more amazing that the largest Jewish community outside of Israel in the middle east asolutely wants nothing to do with Zionist Israel, even when offered $60,000/family in addition to all the benefits Jewish immigrants are automatiocally entitled to in Israel! :eek:

They travel freely, even to Israel, so they are not being prevented from immigrating.

THEY CHOOSE NOT TO, and stay under the regime in Iran BECAUSE they utterly reject all that Zionism stands for.

These are Jews who can trace their ancestry back 3000 years, something the Jews in Israel can't come close to.

The issue is the question I opened my OP with - if Iran is the "New Nazi Germany", and Ahmadinejad is really the "new Hitler" as Israel so loudly claims :
"Why Hasn’t Iran Started by Wiping Its Own Jews Off the Map?"

Israel cannot explain this horrifying contradiction, their peaceful existance represents, to their claim.

So, if Israel is right, why do these Jews exist in Tehran, peacefully, happily, disdaining all efforts of Israel to get them to leave Iran and immigrate, especially given the facts you presented above?

Could it be becaues Iran is NOT the "new Nazi Germany" and Ahmadinejad is NOT the "new Hitler" and Israel is desperately trying to manipulate "the facts" so that they can appear justifed in making a nuclear first strike against Iran?

Besides, Ahmadinejad isn't even supported by the majority of Iranian (and Muslim) people living there anyway. I would hope that the people of Iran (of all faiths and ethnicities) would be successful in their attempts to change the government of Iran -- which includes Ahmadinejad, but is NOT limited to him.

That has nothing to do with my point.

I don't understand why you say that this is an embarrassment for Israel though.

Do you understand better now?

Israel claims that Iran is the "new Nazi German" and Ahmadinejad the "new Hitler", yet here are these 25,000 Jews living happily and peacefully in Iran who don't want the Zionist money or land in Israel.

This reality on the ground, in Ahmadinejad's own front yard for the world to see, grossly contradicts Israel's claims, and so is an embarrassment to them. In essence, as long as this community of Jews exsits in Iran, Israel has egg on its face. But only those who know if this communities existance know this. So I am bring this duplicity on Israel's part to a wider audience's attention. Take time to read the full article I linked you to.


I also don't understand why you consistently post things like this.

To expose the duplicity of Zionism and the government of Israel. Things are not as they appear.


It really seems like nothing more than an attempt to slander Israel and the Jewish people.

You are now making false accusations, bearing false witness against your brother.

You cannot slander a government, a state, a people.

You are engaging in the tired and true logical fallacy known as AD HOMINEM - AGAINST THE PERSON - by making such a false and totally inherently illogical false accusation.

How can I be slandering a "people" when the middle east's largest community of this "people" refuses to believe or accept the lies of the Zionist propaganda against their country?

Are you saying those Jews are not Jews?

Obviously, I am posting in SUPPORT of the Jewish PEOPLE in Iran. Even if slander is possible when dealing with a people, how can I be slandering a people I am SUPPORTING? :scratch:

You are making no sense whatseover.

You should take time to sit back and listen to what is said, read what is offered, and try to digest the information instead of making such knee jerk emotionally charged responses. :)

I took a lot of time to read and digest information of the reality on the ground before starting this thread.

I've only been on this site for a few weeks, but every post I've seen of yours is fixated on this issue... I don't get that at all!

Since you have been here only for a few weeks, and I have been here for a few years, may I recommend you step back from making judgement calls.

I have recently been digging into the historical facts surrounding zionism and the State of Israel, and I am appalled at what I have learned, which is totally different than what we are taught, and it needs to be brought to light.

No one is forcing you to read my posts or threads. But if you took the time to take them seriously, you might learn something.

We are always asked to remember that the government of a country is not always representative of its people, but yet you are doing that right now re: Israel and Jewish people (and all other Israelites -- including Muslims)!

That is true, which is why I don't attack the PEOPLE who live in Israel, but deal with ZIONISM, which is an ideological movement, and the GOVERNMENT which controls the lives of the people in Israel, its policies, laws and Zionist ideology, its actions.

You make the gross error of equating that with making comments about its people. Please show me where I have ever attacked the people of Israel. I have always dealt with the Government and Zionism.

Have you ever read the "Iron Wall", the guiding prinicple of Zionism and the Government of Israel?

May I suggest you do so . . it might change your mind about what I am doing and what is really going on in the middle east.

Using your logic it should be an extreme embarrassment to Palestinians, Iranians, the Lebanese, etc... that there are Muslims who live within Israel and live peaceful lives there as well -- wouldn't it???

Why? How is this an apt comparison? Please draw it out for us?

Also, why is it wrong in the Palestinians/Iranians/Syrians' eyes for Israel to institute laws based upon religious beliefs in an effort to keep their religion strong, when Muslims do the exact same thing, but are even more intolerant of others (Sharia Law)???

You would hae to prove that they "do the exact same thing".

This is not about keeping a "religion" strong, for Israel is a SECULAR STATE. Not a religious one.

What is going on in Israel is about keeping a RACE strong at the expense of all others in their land and surrounding area.

What is going on is that Aionist Israel has a quest for GREATER Israel, which stretches from the Euhpratese to the Sea to the River of Egypt, and the dispossesion of all the people's in their path. You are evidently not well aquainted with Zionism and its goals, a Zionism that treats the jewish people as so much collateral dust in their quest for their objective, Greater Israel.

Again, you should read the "IRON WALL"

The most important thing to remember in this conversation, IMHO, is that it is Ahmadinejad HIMSELF who says that he wants to "wipe Israel off the map".

And THAT is THE LIE of the century!

THAT LIE is why this large community of Jews in Iran is a grave embarrasment to Israel, for it exposes the nature of their LIE.

I was shocked to learn this myself. I had to research it myself to confrim it was true.

It is true. Ahmadinejad NEVER SAID THOSE WORDS.

What he said, and I am roughly paraphrasing, but will get the direct quote from the Farsi myself if yoiu want it, was that he was calling for a REGIME CHANGE in Israel, like what happened in the Soviet Union, and like what will happen to HIS OWN regime one day!

That's it!

But this lie has been perpetuated so often, it has been accepted as truth and no one cares anymore to know the truth.

And we will all suffer the calamity of NUCLEAR WAR BECUASE no one wants to know the truth any more.

Why do I bring this issues up? In the hope that there are enough reasonable people who will start to get the message that things are not as they appear in the middle east, and if we blindly follow the media and such lies as this, we will be culpable for the Nuclear War that will inevitabley follow. For now, for the first time, there are heads of state and our own presidential candidates believing that what was once unthinkable, Nuclear War is THINKABLE.

And to get the citizens of the US to go along, such lies as this are invented.


You and everyone here should be horrified by this, but are you?

Who cares to know the truth anymore, right? As long as it sounds good, we can assuage our consciences with such lies without looking further to determine if it si the truth or not.

He denies the Holocaust even happened, and constantly disparages Jewish people. Why would he say these things if that was not his ultimate goal.

They why has there been such a large Jewish community living on his own front yard? Why has he not done away with them by now if this was really his intent?

Hitler followed through with his intent. Why, if this is also Ahmadenjidad's intent, has he never done anything, in fact, he gives money to their charities to support them?

This is the contradiction that faces your belief, which is based on a lie of the media.

Honestly, I believe the only thing that is keeping Ahmadinejad from declaring war on Israel right now, is that he knows the majority of the world would NOT support him in this (at least not today).

That is what Israel would like you to beleive. ;)

If he is after the Jews, why hasn't he declared war on the Jews on his own front yard?

The simple fact is stark reality . . he is NOT against the Jewish people.

He is against a REGIME, a racist regime following the principles and dictates of Zionism, which eventually wants his country to be subjugated to it and wants all the Arabs in Greater Israel eventually disposseed and/or subjugated.

However, there are many rumblings about Iran/Syria/Palestine attacking Israel in the very near future, so I guess we will all see what happens then, won't we?

Israel always makes such rumblings before they attack. They do so to make it appear they are justified . . "see? what did we tell you!" . . yet they are the instigators.

The war in Lebanon last year had been planned for a long time . .. Israel is good at creating the appearance of an excuse to attack.

However, no evidence was ever found of Hezbollah hiding among the civillians. Instead, the evidence on the ground shows it was the Israeli's who were stationing their millitary camps next to ARAB communities in Israel, and so when Hezbollah fired at those camps, their missles, which lacked the accuracy needed, hit ARAB communities. . . so in reality, it was ISRAEL who was employing this tactic, not Hezbollah.

Become better infomred as to the real nature of this conflict rather than lending blind suppoprt to Israel based on what you hear in the media and zionist propagand dispensed through christian churches . .

Israel has planned another war. They announced it at the beginning of summer. . . just watch . . .


Don't forget that China, Russia, Venezuela and several other countries are in active alliance with Iran and Syria.

I fully support Israel to defend themselves if attacked, and I hope others would as well... If a Muslim nation conquers them I see not evidence that they would even ALLOW Jews to live there -- despite their claims of Dhimmitude status for non-Muslims. The Muslims won't even allow Jews (or Christians) to access parts of the Temple Mount as it is right now!

You see no evidence, yet that very evidence is staring you in the face, the largest community of Jews outside of Israel living peacefully and happily in Iran, the "great evil country that wants to destroy all Jews". .

Right.

The evidence is there. If you choose to ignore the evidence, then that reveals the truth is not what you seek.

IF Iran and Syria and their allies (various Radical Militant Islamic Groups) with the support of their "silent" partners like Russia and China who supply them their military goods it will not just be to retake Jerusalem and the Holy Lands.

Indeed, it will be the first strike against true FREEDOM for the world. It's the same historic battle over and over again -- this time with Radical Muslims working with the support of Communist/Fascist Dictators... Doesn't that sound a bit like USSR's old goals to you? Does it not sound like what was desired years ago in WWII when the Muslim forces joined with Hitler's NAZI forces?

Radical muslims came to the fore BECAUSE OF ISRAEL'S ETHINIC CLEANSING of Palestians, their oppression of Palestinian people and what it says regarding its plan to take GREATER ISRAEL AWAY FROM the Arabs that have been living there for thousands of years.

And to show you what you now of the "truth", the ZIONISTS joined forces with NAZI forces.

That's right. The ZIONISTS made a proposal to Hitler, during WWII, to FIGHT ON HITLER'S SIDE!

I have read the agreement myself.

Do you really know your history as well as you think you do?

If we are to respect each other, and love each other why can we not stop this type of fighting -- on both sides. May God protect Israel and ALL of her citizens, Muslim, Christians, Atheists, Agnostics, and Jews alike!!!

What about God protecting Syria, Jordan, Lebanon, Iran, Iraq, etc, etc, etc, etc?

Are the people's of those countries not also worthy of God's protection?


Consider all this carefully for you do not yet know the truth.

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Tangeloper

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Ahmadinejad NEVER SAID THOSE WORDS.
I may address the other portions of your post, either later tonight or tomorrow...

BUT, for now... Let's address the Ahmadinejad quote shall we:

[FIRST, you must remember that if you read an article in Farsi and it was printed by a publication IN Iran, you are not getting un-biased factual information. The media is COMPLETELY controlled by Ahmadinejad and his government. There is no independent media, so you cannot trust what they print there, at all almost in regards to ANYTHING!]

According to an article on Aljazeera.net (an anti-Zionist publication, I believe...) here is what Ahmadinejad said:

COPIED/PASTED FROM: http://english.aljazeera.net/English/archive/archive?ArchiveId=15816
[Red Emphasis Mine - Tangeloper]

ALJAZEERA.NET
UPDATED ON:
FRIDAY, OCTOBER 28, 2005

Ahmadinejad: Wipe Israel off map

Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has openly called for Israel to be wiped off the map.

"The establishment of the Zionist regime was a move by the world oppressor against the Islamic world," the president told a conference in Tehran on Wednesday, entitled The World without Zionism.

"The skirmishes in the occupied land are part of a war of destiny. The outcome of hundreds of years of war will be defined in Palestinian land," he said.

"As the Imam said, Israel must be wiped off the map," said Ahmadinejad, referring to Iran's revolutionary leader Ayat Allah Khomeini.

His comments were the first time in years that such a high-ranking Iranian official has called for Israel's eradication, even though such slogans are still regularly used at government rallies.

So, I don't know what your Farsi-language source is, but AlJazeera.net is not exactly known for being un-kind to anti-Zionist factions, and that is how they quoted Ahmadinejad...

Again, I may decide to address the rest of your post later. But, I'm not sure if it's even worth my time...

Oh, one more thing: Of course, the good people in Iran, Palestine, Syria, and other nations deserve protection from God -- I was merely addressing this post, and hence my calls for blessings on Israel as it's obvious they are up against a TON of propaganda...

But that's hardly anything new -- Jews have been dealing with these threats for CENTURIES, now... And yet, they are still here! (That must be really frustrating for Muslims who wish they were wiped out by now...)

~~ Tangeloper
 
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thereselittleflower

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I may address the other portions of your post, either later tonight or tomorrow...

BUT, for now... Let's address the Ahmadinejad quote shall we:

[FIRST, you must remember that if you read an article in Farsi and it was printed by a publication IN Iran, you are not getting un-biased factual information. The media is COMPLETELY controlled by Ahmadinejad and his government. There is no independent media, so you cannot trust what they print there, at all almost in regards to ANYTHING!]

According to an article on Aljazeera.net (an anti-Zionist publication, I believe...) here is what Ahmadinejad said:



So, I don't know what your Farsi-language source is, but AlJazeera.net is not exactly known for being un-kind to anti-Zionist factions, and that is how they quoted Ahmadinejad...

Again, I may decide to address the rest of your post later. But, I'm not sure if it's even worth my time...

Whether it is worth your time or not is dependent on whether you want the truth above all else. . .

Again, my response:

Tangeloper, may I ask, have you ever investigated this to find out if what was reported in AlJazeera was really accurate?

I mean, did you just take what was said at face value?

Is this because it is much more convenient to believe this lie because it fits the image Israel and the US want the world to have of Iran than the truth does?


Do you know this has been thoroughly debunked, but no one in dispensationalist/zionist/pro-Israel circles wants to listen as it is far more fun to demonize someone than to promote the truth, which is rather quite boring and doesn't fit the plans of Israel or the US?

This was debunked over a year ago, thoroughly.

Are you willing to take an honest look at this? It is easily done by doing a simple internet search.

Let's look at it:
6/14/06

My recent comment piece explaining how Iran's president was badly misquoted when he allegedly called for Israel to be "wiped off the map" has caused a welcome little storm. The phrase has been seized on by western and Israeli hawks to re-double suspicions of the Iranian government's intentions, so it is important to get the truth of what he really said.

I took my translation - "the regime occupying Jerusalem must vanish from the page of time" - from the indefatigable Professor Juan Cole's website where it has been for several weeks.

.......The New York Times goes on: "The second translation issue concerns the word 'map'. Khomeini's words were abstract: 'Sahneh roozgar.' Sahneh means scene or stage, and roozgar means time. The phrase was widely interpreted as 'map', and for years, no one objected. In October, when Mr Ahmadinejad quoted Khomeini, he actually misquoted him, saying not 'Sahneh roozgar' but 'Safheh roozgar', meaning pages of time or history. No one noticed the change, and news agencies used the word 'map' again."

This, in my view, is the crucial point and I'm glad the NYT accepts that the word "map" was not used by Ahmadinejad....

If the Iranian president made a mistake and used "safheh" rather than "sahneh", that is of little moment. A native English speaker could equally confuse "stage of history" with "page of history". The significant issue is that both phrases refer to time rather than place. As I wrote in my original post, the Iranian president was expressing a vague wish for the future. He was not threatening an Iranian-initiated war to remove Israeli control over Jerusalem.


Finally we come to the BBC monitoring service .......As a result of my inquiry and the controversy generated, they had gone back to the native Farsi-speakers who had translated the speech from a voice recording made available by Iranian TV on October 29 2005. Here is what the spokesman told me about the "off the map" section:
"The monitor has checked again. It's a difficult expression to translate. They're under time pressure to produce a translation quickly and they were searching for the right phrase. With more time to reflect they would say the translation should be "eliminated from the page of history"
.

Finally, I approached Iradj Bagherzade, the Iranian-born founder and chairman of the renowned publishing house, IB Tauris. He thought hard about the word "roozgar". "History" was not the right word, he said, but he could not decide between several better alternatives "this day and age", "these times", "our times", "time".

So there we have it. Starting with Juan Cole, and going via the New York Times' experts through MEMRI to the BBC's monitors, the consensus is that Ahmadinejad did not talk about any maps. He was, as I insisted in my original piece, offering a vague wish for the future.


A very last point. The fact that he compared his desired option - the elimination of "the regime occupying Jerusalem" - with the fall of the Shah's regime in Iran makes it crystal clear that he is talking about regime change, not the end of Israel. As a schoolboy opponent of the Shah in the 1970's he surely did not favour Iran's removal from the page of time. He just wanted the Shah out.

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article13641.htm


More:

The Actual Quote:

So what did Ahmadinejad actually say? To quote his exact words in Farsi:

"Imam ghoft een rezhim-e ishghalgar-e qods bayad az safheh-ye ruzgar mahv shavad."

That passage will mean nothing to most people, but one word might ring a bell: rezhim-e. It is the word "regime." pronounced just like the English word with an extra "eh" sound at the end. Ahmadinejad did not refer to Israel the country or Israel the land mass, but the Israeli regime. This is a vastly significant distinction, as one cannot wipe a regime off the map. Ahmadinejad does not even refer to Israel by name, he instead uses the specific phrase "rezhim-e ishghalgar-e qods" (regime occupying Jerusalem).

So this raises the question.. what exactly did he want "wiped from the map"? The answer is: nothing. That's because the word "map" was never used. The Persian word for map, "nagsheh" is not contained anywhere in his original Farsi quote, or, for that matter, anywhere in his entire speech. Nor was the western phrase "wipe out" ever said. Yet we are led to believe that Iran's president threatened to "wipe Israel off the map." despite never having uttered the words "map." "wipe out" or even "Israel."

The Origin:

One may wonder: where did this false interpretation originate? Who is responsible for the translation that has sparked such worldwide controversy? The answer is surprising.

The inflammatory "wiped off the map" quote was first disseminated not by Iran's enemies, but by Iran itself. The Islamic Republic News Agency, Iran's official propaganda arm, used this phrasing in the English version of some of their news releases covering the World Without Zionism conference. International media including the BBC, Al-Jazeera, Time magazine and countless others picked up the IRNA quote and made headlines out of it without verifying its accuracy, and rarely referring to the source. Iran's Foreign Minister soon attempted to clarify the statement, but the quote had a life of its own. Though the IRNA wording was inaccurate and misleading, the media assumed it was true, and besides, it made great copy.

.....The Israeli government has milked every drop of the spurious quote to its supposed advantage. In her September 2006 address to the United Nations General Assembly, Israeli Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni accused Iran of working to nuke Israel and bully the world. "They speak proudly and openly of their desire to 'wipe Israel off the map.' And now, by their actions, they pursue the weapons to achieve this objective to imperil the region and threaten the world." Addressing the threat in December, a fervent Prime Minister Ehud Olmert inadvertently disclosed that his country already possesses nuclear weapons: "We have never threatened any nation with annihilation. Iran, openly, explicitly and publicly threatens to wipe Israel off the map. Can you say that this is the same level, when they are aspiring to have nuclear weapons, as America, France, Israel, Russia?"



The misquotes didn't end there, they continued. He is quoted to have said this:
"The Zionist regime will be wiped out soon the same way the Soviet Union was, and humanity will achieve freedom,"​

But actually said this:
"As the Soviet Union disappeared, the Zionist regime will also vanish and humanity will be liberated."
In the IRNA's actual report, the Zionist regime will vanish just as the Soviet Union disappeared. Vanish. Disappear. In the dishonest AP version, the Zionist regime will be "wiped out." And how will it be wiped out? "The same way the Soviet Union was." Rather than imply a military threat or escalation in rhetoric, this reference to Russia actually validates the intended meaning of Ahmadinejad's previous misinterpreted anti-Zionist statements.

What has just been demonstrated is irrefutable proof of media manipulation and propaganda in action. The AP deliberately alters an IRNA quote to sound more threatening. The Israeli media not only repeats the fake quote but also steals the original authors' words. The unsuspecting public reads this, forms an opinion and supports unnecessary wars of aggression, presented as self defense, based on the misinformation.

....Iran's president has written two rather philosophical letters to America. In his first letter, he pointed out that "History shows us that oppressive and cruel governments do not survive." With this statement, Ahmadinejad has also projected the outcome of his own backwards regime, which will likewise "vanish from the page of time."

'Wiped off the Map' – The Rumor of the Century

http://www.antiwar.com/orig/norouzi.php?articleid=11025

Shall we continue?

Oh, one more thing: Of course, the good people in Iran, Palestine, Syria, and other nations deserve protection from God -- I was merely addressing this post, and hence my calls for blessings on Israel as it's obvious they are up against a TON of propaganda...

LOL. Actually, the propaganda faced by Israel is nothing compared to the propaganda the Zionists have been pumping out for a century or more.

There is a lot of history you evidently are not aquainted with.

.
 
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Rick Otto

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Maybe it's because they aren't the wide-eyed, happy-go-lucky, never impose on anyone, love-everybody bunch you seem to want to believe they are.

Maybe it's because they know they have a possible hostage population card they are waiting to play.

More typical is their scapegoating motives, and human-shield trick of the trade.

You sit here and mince words while the scoundrels you defend chop heads and bomb civilians.
Sounds to me like you can't bear an iota of truth yourself, baby sister.
 
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Rick Otto

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You flatter yourself.
The Jews in Iran are no position to spout a peep of criticism any more than the muslim victims of fanatical tyrany over there, as any unbiased eye can see at a glance.
Not familiar with a clerical pontiff of a religious supremicist sect, holding a soteriological pistol against your temple and asking you for your honest opinion?
"Terrists" wear many disguises.
Please "undemonize" head amputation & female genital mutilation for us.
Refresh us on how superior that stuff is to what those disgusting Jews are up to. Can't demonize a Jew no matter what you accuse them of, eh?
Help us be "objective".
 
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Tangeloper

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I find it fascinatingly interesting that there is no response to this revelation of what was really said!

Tangeloper, do you want the truth? Or do you find it too heavy to bear?


.
I should've copied and pasted what I wrote on the other thread...

I honestly don't have time to debunk your tired propaganda in defense of people who are bent on controlling the world, silencing their opposition, and institution a one-world Caliphate under Sharia Law. I don't understand how you -- as a woman -- can defend people who treat women the way they do... It flabbergasts me!

I'm ignoring you, because I'm tired of reading your twisted version of the truth... And, I think a lot of other people are too -- which is why there are only two people even responding to this thread.

I'm taking the advice you gave me and ignoring these threads from now on, because you seem to think that if anyone disagrees with you they are uneducated, and brainwashed... Remember how you said to me "you haven't seen the truth yet"??? I wonder how long it will take you to see it TLF...

Take care & God bless TLF, and again, I really mean that...
Tangeloper
 
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thereselittleflower

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I should've copied and pasted what I wrote on the other thread...

OK, I will copy it here for you and my response:
The truth? Of course! Propaganda with a marxist twist -- no thanks!

I'm ignoring you because it's pointless to try to "debate" with you. All you do is copy and paste what others have said... and I don't trust your sources.

Have fun spreading your version of the "truth". I'm not buying one bit of it -- and yes, I've done a lot of research on my own as well...

God bless you TLF -- and yes, I really mean that.
Tangeloper

Tangeloper, so instead of dealing with the facts presented, we see the logical fallacy of poisoning the well, ad hominem, to deflect attention away from the real issue that you have no valid evidence to present in opposition to the facts presented.

I know it is easier to hold a cherished belief that allows one to treat another with contempt than to confront the fact it is utterly false and what is believed to have happened never actually happened.

Now, to your accusation that all I do is copy paste what other's said. . .

What a lame argument and attack.

If I didn't copy/paste what others said, you would accuse me of not bringing in any authoritative sources and makming things up, etc.

If I do, you attack me for doing so! :eek:

The attack is illogical and invalid on its face and demonstrates obfuscation. I find it very disengenuous.


So, absolutely not one shred of evidence that the information from my sources isn't valid. . . just inuendo, attack, poisoning the well, etc . . :)

As to your propagandist charge of "propaganda with a marxist twist" it isn't even worth dignifiying by responding to in any way.


The fact of the matter that Ahmadinejad didn't say what you claim he said isn't in any way diminished by such tactics . . It shows the utter lack of foundation for your own position.


The fact of the matter is that this false claim is being used to justify calls for nuking Iran.

That should send shivers up one's spine, that repeated calls for nuclear attack of a country are being based on such false charges. . ..

That it doesn't is very revealing . .. .

.

I honestly don't have time to debunk your tired propaganda in defense of people who are bent on controlling the world, silencing their opposition, and institution a one-world Caliphate under Sharia Law.

More propaganda without any evidence. This is all you are presenting in this thread. What you have been led to believe by Zionist/Dispenationalist propaganda. . not one ounce of valid proof is presented for anything you have said.

What is happening here is an example of the Zionist projection of its own agenda onto others.

I don't understand how you -- as a woman -- can defend people who treat women the way they do... It flabbergasts me!

Your understanding of the muslim world is very poor if this is the type of response you mount. Much of the muslim world is moderate and is very different than the picture you and others try to paint.

Also, this t hread is not about how muslims treat women. All this is is an attempt to derail the topic off of Israel and the fact that this very large community of Jews is content to stay put in Iran, which is a fly in the soup of Israel's charge that Iran wants to nuke Israel off the map.

It is an embarrassment.

These are facts that are hard for those who believe as you do to hear.

I'm ignoring you, because I'm tired of reading your twisted version of the truth...

Please feel free to ignore me. That is your perrogative. But unless you are prepared to back up such claims as you make against me with actual facts, please refrain from such ad hominems . .they only serve to underscore the utter lack of validity of your position as this is a typical attack mounted when one's own position/claims can't be defended.

That is all you are demonstrating. I had hoped for better, but I guess my hope was misplaced.

And, I think a lot of other people are too -- which is why there are only two people even responding to this thread.

I can come up with other reasons, such as the actual evidence shoots down such claims as yo have made which make continuing to press such claims as you have above untenable.

I'm taking the advice you gave me and ignoring these threads from now on, because you seem to think that if anyone disagrees with you they are uneducated, and brainwashed

This is just more of the logical fallacious response we see from you here, continuing to poison the well, inflammatory ad hominem, yet no actual dealing with the evidence provided . .

This underscores the fact you can't defend your claims in face of the evidence to the contrary, and instead of dealing with the evidence and its detrimental effect on your position, you attack the messenger in defamatory ways in attempts to discredit the messenger and thus somehow, by some strange implication, think you succeed in discrediting the evidence itself.

This is why such attempts are Logical Fallacies, meaning they are logically invalid. Regardless of what your personal opinion is of me as a person, my person has nothing to do with the evidence, and trying to mount attacks against the person in an attempt to discredit the evidence through the back door so to speak, its totally illogical on its face.

This is the quality of response we are being treated to. Nothing valid. Nothing of merit or substance.

... Remember how you said to me "you haven't seen the truth yet"??? I wonder how long it will take you to see it TLF...

Considering I am the only one between us who is making any attempt at providing actual evidence instead of resorting to defaming ad hominem, it seems that the utter lack of valid evidence for your claims demonstrates the need for truth in your position.

If truth were inherent in your position, you would not need to resort to ad hominen and poisoning the well tactics . . you would simply present the evidence for your claims, proving the truth of it.

This you have not done though.

Take care & God bless TLF, and again, I really mean that...
Tangeloper

God bless you too Tangleloper . . And I do mean it as well. :)

I also hope that someday you will be able to see past the propaganda to the actual facts of the matter. Until then, as long as you refuse to accept evidence and deal with it, I have to agree with you that there is no point continuing this conversation between us.


.
 
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Rick Otto

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All alone defending the defenseless?
Who cares about Zionism when muslim fanatics strap bombs on teenagers, fly planeloads of civilians into office buildings in your own country, decapitate heads, mutilate female genetalia, and slaughter even themselves over religious differences?
They demonize themselves even more than you demonize "Zionists" for them.

I have plenty of criticism for Isreal, but at least they pretend to democracy, share enough of their wealth to support a middle class, and treat their women with a modicum of respect.
As you spout sympathy for the devil, if you were to try walking down one of their streets in jeans & a Christian T-shirt, you would be fortunate to be arrested instead of simply raped & beaten to death on the street.
You defend an enemy who would devour you in the blink of an eye.

At any rate, it would be stupid to nuke Iran:
"Preventive war was an invention of Hitler. Frankly, I would not even listen to anyone seriously that came and talked about such a thing." - Dwight D. Eisenhower.
 
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Carey

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"So Why Hasn’t Iran Started by Wiping Its Own Jews Off the Map?"

Israel's warmongering against Iran, its accusations that Iran is the next Nazi Germany and its president Mahmoud Ahmadinejad the new Hitler, is stopped cold by one sobering and impossible to ignore fact if one makes an effort to look at the reality on the ground:

Iran is home to the LARGEST Jewish communiy outside Israel in the middle east!

There are 25.000 Jews living happily in thier Jewish community in Tehran which is over 3,000 years old, and they have no intention of leaving.

They have many rights and priviledges, including the freedom of movement and travel even to Israel.

Israel has tried many times to entice them to leave and immgrate to Israel, but so far, less than 200 have taken Israel up on its offer.

Now Israel has tried to entice them by offering each family $60,000 to move to Israel. But no luck.

These Jews absolutely refuse seeing through such ofers for the trickery they are. They despise Zionism and what it representes and will have nothing to do with the State of Isarel.

And they stand in direct contradiction to all Israel claims regarding Iran's program to anihilate the Jews from the middle east. It is an abject lie on Israel's part, and this 25,000 strong community of Jews happily living in Iran are absolute proof of this lie.

This is a strong and heavy embarrasment for Israel that Israel wants erased. But so far, all attempts to do so have failed.

Earlier this year Binyamin Netanyahu, Israel’s opposition leader and the man who appears to be styling himself scaremonger-in-chief, told us:
“It’s 1938 and Iran is Germany. And Iran is racing to arm itself with atomic bombs.”​
Of Ahmadinejad, he said:
“He is preparing another Holocaust for the Jewish state.”​
There is an interesting problem with selling the “Iran as Nazi Germany” line. If Ahmadinejad really is Hitler, ready to commit genocide against Israel’s Jews as soon as he can get his hands on a nuclear weapon, why are some 25,000 Jews living peacefully in Iran and more than reluctant to leave despite repeated enticements from Israel and American Jews?[

.... the 25,000-strong Iranian Jewish community is the largest in the Middle East outside Israel and traces its roots back 3,000 years.

...Iranian Jews have little influence on decision-making and are not allowed to hold senior posts in the army or bureaucracy. But they enjoy many freedoms. They have an elected representative in parliament, they practice their religion openly in synagogues, their charities are funded by the Jewish diaspora, and they can travel freely, including to Israel. In Tehran there are six kosher butchers and about 30 synagogues. Ahmadinejad’s office recently made a donation to a Jewish hospital in Tehran.

.......The Ma’ariv newspaper pointed out that previous schemes [to entice Iranian Jews to Israe;] had found few takers. There was, noted the report, “a lack of desire on the part of thousands of Iranian Jews to leave”.

....To step up these efforts -- and presumably to avoid the embarrassing incongruence of claiming an imminent second Holocaust while thousands of Jews live happily in Tehran -- Israel is now backing a move by Jewish donors to guarantee every Iranian Jewish family $60,000 to settle in Israel, in addition to a host of existing financial incentives that are offered to Jewish immigrants, including loans and cheap mortgages.


The announcement was met with scorn by the Society of Iranian Jews, which issued a statement that their national identity was not for sale.
“The identity of Iranian Jews is not tradeable for any amount of money. Iranian Jews are among the most ancient Iranians. Iran’s Jews love their Iranian identity and their culture, so threats and this immature political enticement will not achieve their aim of wiping out the identity of Iranian Jews.”​
http://www.jkcook.net/Articles2/0304.htm#Top

What will be next to get rid of the 25,000 Jewish embarrassments to Israel's claims about Iran?

Read the article above for possibilities which may include their destruction.


.
There is an interesting problem with selling the “Iran as Nazi Germany” line. If Ahmadinejad really is Hitler, ready to commit genocide against Israel’s Jews as soon as he can get his hands on a nuclear weapon, why are some 25,000 Jews living peacefully in Iran and more than reluctant to leave despite repeated enticements from Israel and American Jews?[


I would suggest you read your Bible more and antisemitic propganda less.

Becuase he Armadinijad wants to create world Chaos and bring the Mahdi ( MUslim false messiah ) into the world.

Armadinijad is an anti christ just as Hitler was.

2 John 1:7 (New International Version)

7Many deceivers, who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh, have gone out into the world. Any such person is the deceiver and the antichrist


But Dont worry
2 Thesalonians 2 : 1Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, we ask you, brothers, 2not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by some prophecy, report or letter supposed to have come from us, saying that the day of the Lord has already come. 3Don't let anyone deceive you in any way,
 
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imind

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All alone defending the defenseless?
no, she isn't.

has anyone who claims her links are mere propaganda proven them false?

About 25,000 Jews live in Iran and most are determined to remain no matter what the pressures - as proud of their Iranian culture as of their Jewish roots.

bbc news

Jews in Iran Describe a Life of Freedom Despite Anti-Israel Actions by Tehran

It comes as a surprise to many visitors to discover that Iran, a country so hostile to Israel and with a reputation for intolerance, is home to a small but vibrant Jewish community that is an officially recognized religious minority under Iran's 1979 Islamic Constitution.

"[Ayatollah Ruhollah] Khomeini didn't mix up our community with Israel and Zionism - he saw us as Iranians," says Haroun Yashyaei, a film producer and chairman of the Central Jewish Community in Iran. Like Iran's Armenian Christians, Jews are tolerated as "people of the book" and allowed to practice their religion freely, provided they do not proselytize.

christian science monitor

Iran's Jews have given the country a loyalty pledge in the face of cash offers aimed at encouraging them to move to Israel, the arch-enemy of its Islamic rulers.

The incentives — ranging from £5,000 a person to £30,000 for families — were offered from a special fund established by wealthy expatriate Jews in an effort to prompt a mass migration to Israel from among Iran's 25,000-strong Jewish community. The offers were made with Israel's official blessing and were additional to the usual state packages it provides to Jews emigrating from the diaspora.

However, the Society of Iranian Jews dismissed them as "immature political enticements" and said their national identity was not for sale.

"The identity of Iranian Jews is not tradeable for any amount of money," the society said in a statement. "Iranian Jews are among the most ancient Iranians. Iran's Jews love their Iranian identity and their culture, so threats and this immature political enticement will not achieve their aim of wiping out the identity of Iranian Jews."

the guardian
this isn't the first time israel has offered monetary enticements to jews abroad. they did so in argentina with similar results


and another article form the christian science monitor...

Some 25,000 Jews still live in Iran and many say that President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's fiery anti-Israeli rhetoric is about politics, not religion.

...

"If you think Judaism and Zionism are one, it is like thinking Islam and the Taliban are the same, and they are not," says Ciamak Moresadegh, chairman of the Tehran Jewish Committee. "We have common problems with Iranian Muslims. If a war were to start, we would also be a target. When a missile lands, it does not ask if you are a Muslim or a Jew. It lands."

...

Part of that coexistence has been gratitude for the Dr. Sapir Hospital, a Jewish charity hospital that would have closed years ago, but for subsidies from Jews inside and outside Iran, doctors say.

During the 1979 revolution, the hospital refused to hand over those wounded in clashes with the security forces of the pro-West Shah Reza Pahlavi. Ayatollah Khomeini later sent a personal representative to express his thanks. Ahmadinejad, too, has made a $27,000 donation.

...

"There is always [talk] outside the country that religious minorities are under pressure," says Mr. Motamed. "It is important to say that what people say about minorities is completely wrong,"

"Jews here have great Iranian roots – they love Iran," says chairman Moresadegh. "Personally, I would stay in Iran no matter what. I speak in English, I pray in Hebrew, but my thinking is Persian."

I would suggest you read your Bible more and antisemitic propganda less.
pfft. what the heck would the bible tell you of how jews are presently being treated in iran?
 
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