Olam means forever

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Biblewriter

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It has been repeatedly alleged on this forum that the Hebrew word olam does not mean forever.

To demonstrate the error of this claim, here are two dozen places where the Hebrew word olam is used for the eternal nature of God.

1. Then Abraham planted a tamarisk tree in Beersheba, and there called on the name of the Lord, the Everlasting [olam] God. (Genesis 21:33)

2. For I raise My hand to heaven,
And say, “As I live forever [olam],” (Deuteronomy 32:40)

3. The eternal God is your refuge,
And underneath are the everlasting [olam] arms;
He will thrust out the enemy from before you,
And will say, ‘Destroy!’ (Deuteronomy 33:27)

4. But the Lord shall endure forever [olam];
He has prepared His throne for judgment. (Psalm 9:7)

5. The Lord is King forever [olam] and ever;
The nations have perished out of His land. (Psalm 10:16)

6. He asked life from You, and You gave it to him—
Length of days forever [olam] and ever. (Psalm 21:4)

7. The Lord sat enthroned at the Flood,
And the Lord sits as King forever [olam]. (Psalm 29:10)

8. Your throne, O God, is forever [olam] and ever;
A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom. (Psalm 45:6)

9. He rules by His power forever [olam];
His eyes observe the nations;
Do not let the rebellious exalt themselves.
Selah (Psalm 66:7)

10. Before the mountains were brought forth,
Or ever You had formed the earth and the world,
Even from everlasting [olam] to everlasting [olam], You are God. (Psalm 90:2)

11. But You, Lord, are on high forevermore [olam]. (Psalm 92:8)

12. Your throne is established from of old;
You are from everlasting [olam]. (Psalm 93:2)

13. But You, O Lord, shall endure forever [olam],
And the remembrance of Your name to all generations. (Psalm 102:12)

14. The Lord has sworn
And will not relent,
“You are a priest forever [olam]
According to the order of Melchizedek.” (Psalm 110:4)

15. Your kingdom is an everlasting [olam] kingdom,
And Your dominion endures throughout all generations. (Psalm 145:13)

16. Who made heaven and earth,
The sea, and all that is in them;
Who keeps truth forever [olam], (Psalm 146:6)

17. The Lord shall reign forever [olam]—
Your God, O Zion, to all generations.
Praise the Lord! (Psalm 146:10)

18. I have been established from everlasting [olam],
From the beginning, before there was ever an earth. (Proverbs 8:23)

19. For unto us a Child is born,
Unto us a Son is given;
And the government will be upon His shoulder.
And His name will be called
Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God,
Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
7 Of the increase of His government and peace
There will be no end,
Upon the throne of David and over His kingdom,
To order it and establish it with judgment and justice
From that time forward, even forever [olam].
The zeal of the Lord of hosts will perform this. (Isaiah 9:6 )

20. Have you not known?
Have you not heard?
The everlasting [olam] God, the Lord,
The Creator of the ends of the earth,
Neither faints nor is weary.
His understanding is unsearchable. (Isaiah 40:28)

21. But the Lord is the true God;
He is the living God and the everlasting [olam] King.
At His wrath the earth will tremble,
And the nations will not be able to endure His indignation. (Jeremiah 10:10)

22. You, O Lord, remain forever [olam];
Your throne from generation to generation. (Lamentations 5:19)

23. Then I heard the man clothed in linen, who was above the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand to heaven, and swore by Him who lives forever [olam], that it shall be for a time, times, and half a time; and when the power of the holy people has been completely shattered, all these things shall be finished. (Daniel 12:7)

24. “But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah,
Though you are little among the thousands of Judah,
Yet out of you shall come forth to Me
The One to be Ruler in Israel,
Whose goings forth are from of old,
From everlasting [olam].” (Micah 5:2)

All quotations are from the new King James version
 

Biblewriter

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Here are four places where the Hebrew word olam is used for the eternal nature of God’s word.

1. The works of His hands are verity and justice;
All His precepts are sure.
8 They stand fast forever [olam] and ever,
And are done in truth and uprightness. (Psalm 111:7)

2. Forever [olam], O Lord,
Your word is settled in heaven. (Psalm 119:89)

3. The righteousness of Your testimonies is everlasting [olam];
Give me understanding, and I shall live. (Psalm 119:144)


4. The grass withers, the flower fades,
But the word of our God stands forever [olam]. (Isaiah 40:8)
 
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Biblewriter

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Here are a dozen places where the Hebrew word olam is used for the eternal nature of death, and its results.

1. And Moses said to the people, “Do not be afraid. Stand still, and see the salvation of the Lord, which He will accomplish for you today. For the Egyptians whom you see today, you shall see again no more forever [olam]. (Exodus 14:13)

2. For the redemption of their souls is costly,
And it shall cease forever [olam]— (Psalm 49:8)

3. Your righteousness is an everlasting [olam] righteousness,
And Your law is truth. (Psalm 119:142)

4. The sinners in Zion are afraid;
Fearfulness has seized the hypocrites:
“Who among us shall dwell with the devouring fire?
Who among us shall dwell with everlasting [olam] burnings?” (Isaiah 33:14)

5. Lift up your eyes to the heavens,
And look on the earth beneath.
For the heavens will vanish away like smoke,
The earth will grow old like a garment,
And those who dwell in it will die in like manner;
But My salvation will be forever [olam],
And My righteousness will not be abolished.
7 “Listen to Me, you who know righteousness,
You people in whose heart is My law:
Do not fear the reproach of men,
Nor be afraid of their insults.
8 For the moth will eat them up like a garment,
And the worm will eat them like wool;
But My righteousness will be forever [olam],
And My salvation from generation to generation.” (Isaiah 51:6)

6. “Seventy weeks are determined
For your people and for your holy city,
To finish the transgression,
To make an end of sins,
To make reconciliation for iniquity,
To bring in everlasting [olam] righteousness,
To seal up vision and prophecy,
And to anoint the Most Holy. (Daniel 9:24)

7. And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake,
Some to everlasting [olam] life,
Some to shame and everlasting [olam] contempt. (Daniel 12:2)

8. Those who are wise shall shine
Like the brightness of the firmament,
And those who turn many to righteousness
Like the stars forever [olam] and ever. (Daniel 12:3)

9. Also they are afraid of height,
And of terrors in the way;
When the almond tree blossoms,
The grasshopper is a burden,
And desire fails.
For man goes to his eternal [olam] home,
And the mourners go about the streets. (Ecclesiastes 12:5)

10. I will make you a terror, and you shall be no more; though you are sought for, you will never [lo olam] be found again,’ says the Lord GOD.” (Ezekiel 26:21)

11. The merchants among the peoples will hiss at you;
You will become a horror, and be no more forever [olam]. (Ezekiel 27:36)

12. All who knew you among the peoples are astonished at you;
You have become a horror,
And shall be no more forever [olam]. (Ezekiel 28:19)
 
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Biblewriter

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Here are a dozen places where the Hebrew word olam is used figuratively for the apparently eternal nature of creation.

1. The blessings of your father
Have excelled the blessings of my ancestors,
Up to the utmost bound of the everlasting [olam] hills.
They shall be on the head of Joseph,
And on the crown of the head of him who was separate from his brothers. (Genesis 49:26)

2. With the best things of the ancient mountains,
With the precious things of the everlasting [olam] hills, (Deuteronomy 33:15)

3. His name shall endure forever [olam];
His name shall continue as long as the sun.
And men shall be blessed in Him;
All nations shall call Him blessed. (Psalm 72:17)

4. And He built His sanctuary like the heights,
Like the earth which He has established forever [olam].(Psalm 78:69)

5. His seed shall endure forever [olam],
And his throne as the sun before Me;
37 It shall be established forever [olam] like the moon,
Even like the faithful witness in the sky.”
Selah (Psalm 89:36)

6. You who laid the foundations of the earth,
So that it should not be moved forever [olam], (Psalm 104:5)

7. Concerning Your testimonies,
I have known of old that You have founded them forever [olam]. (Psalm 119:152)

8. Those who trust in the Lord
Are like Mount Zion,
Which cannot be moved, but abides forever [olam]. (Psalm 125:1)

9. He also established them forever and ever [olam];
He made a decree which shall not pass away. (Psalm 148:6)

10. One generation passes away, and another generation comes;
But the earth abides forever [olam]. (Ecclesiastes 1:4)

11. Do you not fear Me?’ says the Lord.
‘Will you not tremble at My presence,
Who have placed the sand as the bound of the sea,
By a perpetual [olam] decree, that it cannot pass beyond it?
And though its waves toss to and fro,
Yet they cannot prevail;
Though they roar, yet they cannot pass over it. (Jeremiah 5:22)

12. He stood and measured the earth;
He looked and startled the nations.
And the everlasting [olam] mountains were scattered,
The perpetual hills bowed.
His ways are everlasting [olam]. (Habakkuk 3:6)
 
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Biblewriter

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Very little comment is needed on this assembly of quotations. In each of these places (except those in the last list, if someone wants to argue about trivialities) the meaning of olam is obviously eternal.

This Hebrew word literally means "hidden" and implies a period of time, at least one of whose ends is so far off as to be beyond comprehension.

But the many places I have quoted prove beyond the possibility of debate that this word was often, if not always, used in the Hebrew Old Testament as the equivalent of our words "forever" and "eternal."
 
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thereselittleflower

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Simply presenting English translations of pasaages that use the words for ever to translate Olam is pretty meaningless biblewriter . . even in the English language "forever" does not have to mean endless time.

There is nothing in anything you have presented that mandates that we understand that the use of olam means endless time. . . .

You are barking up the wrong tree.


.
 
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Epiphoskei

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even in the English language "forever" does not have to mean endless time.

This view has always struck me as odd. Forever does mean endless and only endless, there exists no other meaning in the english language.

His arguments are perfectly fine. If those uses of Olam do not mean endless, we're in a heapload of trouble, as the promises of the Lord (and, for that matter, the Lord himself) will end otherwise.
 
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thereselittleflower

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This view has always struck me as odd. Forever does mean endless and only endless, there exists no other meaning in the english language.

"Only" endless? I am sorry, but you are very wrong.

Have you looked up the word lately?

Forever also means:
  1. always: seemingly without interruption; often and repeatedly; "always looking for faults"; "it is always raining"; "he is forever cracking jokes"; "they are forever arguing"
  2. for a very long or seemingly endless time; "she took forever to write the paper"; "we had to wait forever and a day"
wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn​

None of these deal with the concept of endless time.

See, the word "forever" does not have to mean unendless, limitless time . .. these two definitions demonstrate this.

So there is nothing mandating that the word olam mean endless.

His arguments are perfectly fine. If those uses of Olam do not mean endless, we're in a heapload of trouble, as the promises of the Lord (and, for that matter, the Lord himself) will end otherwise.

Then what do you make of this verse:
Exd 21:5 And if the servant shall plainly say, I love my master, my wife, and my children; I will not go out free:

Exd 21:6 Then his master shall bring him unto the judges; he shall also bring him to the door, or unto the door post; and his master shall bore his ear through with an aul; and he shall serve him for ever.

Now, the word translated "for ever" here is "olam"

Are you really going to argue that it means that the ervant shall be the master's for all eternity, for an endless period of time?

Are you really going to arague that there is slavery in heaven?


See, there is nothing that mandates that olam means "endless" time . . .

.
 
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thereselittleflower

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Hyperbolie does not change the actual meaning of the word.

I think you misunderstand. It is not hyperbole. Hyperbole is not used in the giving of the law. The giving of the law uses words that mean what they say. It is what the word means, "an age".

Look at a literal translation:

Exd 21:6 then hath his lord brought him nigh unto God, and hath brought him nigh unto the door, or unto the side-post, and his lord hath bored his ear with an awl, and he hath served him -- to the age.​


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Simply presenting English translations of pasaages that use the words for ever to translate Olam is pretty meaningless biblewriter . . even in the English language "forever" does not have to mean endless time.

There is nothing in anything you have presented that mandates that we understand that the use of olam means endless time. . . .

You are barking up the wrong tree.


.

The point was that olam is often used to describe things that are unquestionably endless, like God, his word, and death. it is also used of things that are for all practical purposes endless, like the earth, the sun, and the moon.

You have been insisting that olam means a period of time that has an end, that it never means endless. I have demonstrated that it is often used in that very sense. So your contention that its use in regard to the promises of God does not mean an endless covenant is not valid.

In the Old Testament, olam was the standard Hebrew word for things that were endless.
 
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Biblewriter

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The giving of the law uses words that mean what they say. It is what the word means, "an age".

Look at a literal translation:
Exd 21:6 then hath his lord brought him nigh unto God, and hath brought him nigh unto the door, or unto the side-post, and his lord hath bored his ear with an awl, and he hath served him -- to the age.​
.

Again, you are twisting the true meaning of the Hebrew words.

This is one of the many places (I did not bother to count them) where the word olam was used to mean endless, as far as the life of the individual in question was concerned.

Here, the indentured servant who liked his life as a servant and volunteered to become a slave, had his ear pierced with an awl, and he was thereafter no longer free to ever go away. He was to serve him forever [olam].

Likewise, in many places various individuals declared that they would serve God forever [olam] or that they would worship or praise Him forever [olam].

In all these places, olam means forever, as far as the life of the individual in question is concerned.

But in my entire study of the word olam in the Old Testament, I did not see even one place where it was used of a period of time which had a discernable end. if such a place exists, it is your duty to demonstrate it. I do not believe it was ever used in this sense.
 
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Biblewriter

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I remember reading of a time when some white men were attempting to negotiate a treaty with some Indians in the pacific Northwest. They wanted to say it applied forever, but there did not seem to be a word in the Indian's language that signified continuance without any end. So they finally wrote that the treaty would apply "as long as the rivers run down to the sea and the sun continues to rise."

Even so, to make sure we understood that in using the word olam, God meant without any end, He interpreted it to mean "for a thousand generations," or "like the sun" and "like the moon."

The necessary conclusion of all this is that (wonder of wonders) the many translation committees have been correct when they have normally translated the word olam to mean forever, endless, or (when accompanied by the Hebrew words lo or ad) never.

So all the arguments about the promises of God being only temporary, because He used the word olam, are simply incorrect.
 
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IamAdopted

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Simply presenting English translations of pasaages that use the words for ever to translate Olam is pretty meaningless biblewriter . . even in the English language "forever" does not have to mean endless time.

There is nothing in anything you have presented that mandates that we understand that the use of olam means endless time. . . .

You are barking up the wrong tree.


.
Oh so this is another one of those this is not what is it really means sort of deal. That God causes confusion because we can't say forever means forever because then it would go against what you believe to be true? That forever doesn't really mean forever is quite a lame excuse at best.
 
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Tavita

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This is an explanation of Olam taken from the Ancient Hebrew Lexicon..

Eternity (olam)
studies_eternity.gif
"In the ancient Hebrew words that are used to described distance and direction are also used to describe time. The Hebrew word for east is qedem and literally means "the direction of the rising sun". We use north as our major orientation such as in maps which are always oriented to the north. While we use the north as our major direction the Hebrews used the east and all directions are oriented to this direction. For example one of the words for south is teyman from the root yaman meaning "to the right". The word qedem is also the word for the past. In the ancient Hebrew mind the past is in front of you while the future is behind you, the opposite way we think of the past and future. The Hebrew word olam means in the far distance. When looking off in the far distance it is difficult to make out any details and what is beyond that horizon cannot be seen. This concept is the olam. The word olam is also used for time for the distant past or the distant future as a time that is difficult to know or perceive. This word is frequently translated as eternity or forever but in the English language it is misunderstood to mean a continual span of time that never ends. In the Hebrew mind it is simply what is at or beyond the horizon, a very distant time. A common phrase in the Hebrew is "l'olam va'ed" and is usually translated as "forever and ever" but in the Hebrew it means "to the distant horizon and again" meaning "a very distant time and even further" and is used to express the idea of a very ancient or future time."


I think we need to learn what words meant to those who wrote them.
 
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thereselittleflower

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The point was that olam is often used to describe things that are unquestionably endless,

Only in your presonal, private interpretation . . . that doesn't mean it has anything to do with the way things really are,

like God,

there are many ways olam is used . . . olam by itself, olam doubled, olam ad olam, etc . .

When it is used doubled, and then of God, only then can a case possibly be made that it refers to eternity . . . but even then the case is doubtful as the ancient Jews did not really have a concept of eternal as we as christians do thousands of years removed from them.

All you are doing is taking a 21st century western chrsitian mindset and trying to force it on anceint Hebrew language thousands of years removed from you in culture and time.

That is not a justifiable way to interpret scripture.

Nothng you have presented requires that olam mean eternal. Literal translation shows it means for "an age" - "age during", etc.

his word, and death. it is also used of things that are for all practical purposes endless, like the earth, the sun, and the moon.

But we know the earth, the sun, and the moon are not endless. The word is a word that deals with perspective, and you are removing it from its context dealing with perspective from an ancient Jewish mindset and trying to make it be what you want it to be today.

Even the words "for ever" or "forever" do not have to mean endless either . . . nothing that you have presented mandates an understanding of endless time when the word olam is used.

I have studied this word quite a bit, and did not come to these conclusins willy nilly as you seem to suggest.

You have been insisting that olam means a period of time that has an end, that it never means endless. I have demonstrated that it is often used in that very sense.

All you have demonstrated is that your personal interpreration requires that it be used often in such a sense.

You have not demonstrated that your personal interpretation is correct.

You have merely entered upon a circular argument.. .

Olam means endless time because I understand these verses using olam to be speaking of endless things . . . . I understand these verses to be speaking of endless things because olam means endless time.

You really haven't put forth any better argumentation than that. . . . In order for your premise to be true, your conclusoin has to be true . . this is not logically invalid argument.


So your contention that its use in regard to the promises of God does not mean an endless covenant is not valid.

We see above that such a conclusion, based on the circular reasoning employed by you above, that such a conclusion is invalid, at least logically.

In the Old Testament, olam was the standard Hebrew word for things that were endless.

But the ancient Hebrews really didn't have a concept of eternal as we do today . . that was not their focus. . . .

You are assuming they did . . . you have yet to prove that assumption . . . .


.
 
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thereselittleflower

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This is an explanation of Olam taken from the Ancient Hebrew Lexicon..

Eternity (olam)
studies_eternity.gif
"In the ancient Hebrew words that are used to described distance and direction are also used to describe time. The Hebrew word for east is qedem and literally means "the direction of the rising sun". We use north as our major orientation such as in maps which are always oriented to the north. While we use the north as our major direction the Hebrews used the east and all directions are oriented to this direction. For example one of the words for south is teyman from the root yaman meaning "to the right". The word qedem is also the word for the past. In the ancient Hebrew mind the past is in front of you while the future is behind you, the opposite way we think of the past and future. The Hebrew word olam means in the far distance. When looking off in the far distance it is difficult to make out any details and what is beyond that horizon cannot be seen. This concept is the olam. The word olam is also used for time for the distant past or the distant future as a time that is difficult to know or perceive. This word is frequently translated as eternity or forever but in the English language it is misunderstood to mean a continual span of time that never ends. In the Hebrew mind it is simply what is at or beyond the horizon, a very distant time. A common phrase in the Hebrew is "l'olam va'ed" and is usually translated as "forever and ever" but in the Hebrew it means "to the distant horizon and again" meaning "a very distant time and even further" and is used to express the idea of a very ancient or future time."


This word is frequently translated as eternity or forever but in the English language it is misunderstood to mean a continual span of time that never ends.​

Thank you. :) And as we see in scripture, it is even used of time spans that are short, sucha s the remaining span of a lifetiem . . it is simply that its exact end is obscure.
I think we need to learn what words meant to those who wrote them.

Exactly. :)


.
 
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thereselittleflower

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Oh so this is another one of those this is not what is it really means sort of deal. That God causes confusion because we can't say forever means forever because then it would go against what you believe to be true? That forever doesn't really mean forever is quite a lame excuse at best.
No, it is one of those "this is what you are trying to force it to say when nothing mandates your interpretation that it says any such thing".

I guess you feel that the English dictionary is wrong which shows 2 definitions for ways in which the English words "for ever" and "forever are used for non-endless periods of time.


.
 
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thereselittleflower

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I remember reading of a time when some white men were attempting to negotiate a treaty with some Indians in the pacific Northwest. They wanted to say it applied forever, but there did not seem to be a word in the Indian's language that signified continuance without any end. So they finally wrote that the treaty would apply "as long as the rivers run down to the sea and the sun continues to rise."

Even so, to make sure we understood that in using the word olam, God meant without any end, He interpreted it to mean "for a thousand generations," or "like the sun" and "like the moon."

The necessary conclusion of all this is that (wonder of wonders) the many translation committees have been correct when they have normally translated the word olam to mean forever, endless, or (when accompanied by the Hebrew words lo or ad) never.

So all the arguments about the promises of God being only temporary, because He used the word olam, are simply incorrect.

This so called "evidence" and resulting argumentation has nothing whatsoever to do with anything we are talking about . . . you cannot apply one culture's use of language a couple of hundred years ago to a another's use of an entirely different language in an entirely different culture thousands of years removed from it time and distance, culture and geographic location.

This form of invalid argumentation and evidence only results in conclusions that are not logically valid.


There is nothing valid here at all.


.
 
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thereselittleflower

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Again, you are twisting the true meaning of the Hebrew words.

This is one of the many places (I did not bother to count them) where the word olam was used to mean endless, as far as the life of the individual in question was concerned.

Now you are contradicting the plain meaning of scripture, especially in the giving of the law, which used very explicit language to say what it meant.

One would have to understand, using your mandated understanding of the word olam, that such a person would be a slave for all eternity.

That is rediculous and shows the invalid nature of your method of interpretation.

Here, the indentured servant who liked his life as a servant and volunteered to become a slave, had his ear pierced with an awl, and he was thereafter no longer free to ever go away. He was to serve him forever [olam].

Does or does not a lifetime have a beginning AND AN END?

If it has an end, then it cannot be said to be forever, endless . . .

This is law, not poetic language.

You really need to spend some time educating yourself about Hebrew word usage instead of going on and on like this.


Likewise, in many places various individuals declared that they would serve God forever [olam] or that they would worship or praise Him forever [olam].

No evidence to look at.

In all these places, olam means forever, as far as the life of the individual in question is concerned.

So, an individual is another's individual's slave forever, for all eternity . . .

We see . . . .

We see the obvious failure of your method of eisegesis . .

But in my entire study of the word olam in the Old Testament, I did not see even one place where it was used of a period of time which had a discernable end.

I see . . a man's lifetime has no discernable end . . .

We see that you are not even being reasonable now . .


if such a place exists, it is your duty to demonstrate it. I do not believe it was ever used in this sense.


It has been demonstrated . . you turning a blind eye to it and making comments as you did above means nothing as to the reality that your claims have been shown to be baseless.


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