Practicing Discernment at Wal-Mart

A friend recently told me about a man from her church. I think she said he was the pastor, or someone in leadership, dont remember, but she says he goes to our local Wal-Mart not to shop, but to "discern."

He just watches everyone and tries to figure out who are Christians and who are not, all based on what he sees. He looks at how they are dressed, how short their skirts or shorts are, how tight the pants are, what kind of hairstyles they have, how they interact with their kids, what they are buying.

I have never heard of anything so judgemental and wrong in my whole life. He doesnt go there to discern, he goes to judge! Discerment really is a gift from God, but I really dont think this is what he intended!

Yet my friend tells this story so casually, and mentions that when she sees him at wal mart without a cart, she knows he is "discerning in the Spirit" and immediately tells her kids to be on their best behavior. I am not sure she understands how screwed up this is.

She has told me a few other things about her church that strike me as wrong. Their judgementalism, legalism, etc.

I want to ask her more about this, find out her true feelings here, and I really want to let her know that this is terribly, terribly wrong, and if this is any indication of what goes on at her church, I want to advise her to leave. I do plan to pray more about this, as I know thats what I need to do, but if I still feel God wants me to talk to her, what do I say? What do you all think about this?

I can't say the pastor is entirely wrong in what he is doing, as we ALL are guilty of judging someone's spirit state at some point in our life.

On one hand, I could say "Shame on him" for trying to judge people on looks alone, yet on the other hand I could say "Shame on those people for not dressing or acting in a way that is becoming of Christians.

If that is only thing occuring, that is not enough to urge your friend to leave, unless there are other underlying issues going on as well.

Yes, there are many more underlying things going on at her church.

I know we are all guilty of judging, we have all done it I am sure, but who goes to wal-mart to practice it? Doesnt seem right to me.

Hmmmm, sounds a little fishy.

If he truly has the gift of discernment, and is going to Wal-Mart with the intention of honestly praying for those whom the Holy Spirit brings to his attention, then okay.

But if he's going to "discern" by appearances alone, I can't say I agree with that one bit.

On one hand, I could say "Shame on him" for trying to judge people on looks alone, yet on the other hand I could say "Shame on those people for not dressing or acting in a way that is becoming of Christians.

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If I work hard to reflect Christ in all I do, whether it be by my attitude, dress, or actions, it is in the hopes that nonbelievers will see, and want to know Christ, not just so that other Christians wont judge me.

If a person tries hard to "look" Christian to other Christians, its just like being a Pharisee.

If he truly has the gift of discernment, and is going to Wal-Mart with the intention of honestly praying for those whom the Holy Spirit brings to his attention, then okay.

But if he's going to "discern" by appearances alone, I can't say I agree with that one bit.

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I didnt hear one word about praying for those who look troubled or sad, poor, sick etc. No talk of praying, nor of reaching out. Just playing some game of "who looks like a Christian and who doesnt?"

I agree that this sounds a bit fishy or strange. Especially if this man does this activity rountinely. Seems more of a mental disorder than spiritual work to me.

Nothing was ever said about the man being there to evangelize. It would be a little different he was supsecting groups of non Christians, and try to tell them about Jesus in some way. Passing out tracts or soing something.

Seems to me he should be spending his time in better ways than stalking people in Walmart.

Stanfi said:

I agree that this sounds a bit fishy or strange. Especially if this man does this activity rountinely. Seems more of a mental disorder than spiritual work to me.

Nothing was ever said about the man being there to evangelize. It would be a little different he was supsecting groups of non Christians, and try to tell them about Jesus in some way. Passing out tracts or soing something.

Seems to me he should be spending his time in better ways than stalking people in Walmart.

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Yup, I agree!

This friend has told me quite a few other things about her church, things that all sound bad, judgemental, etc. Not lining up with sound doctrine, nor longing to be more like Christ. This was the very worst of what she has said, and I am shocked because its a person in leadership. If this is any indication of what he is teaching in the church... wow.

So she has issues with the church and wants to leave, then I talk to her again and she has just become a member. (With pressure from the leadership.)

I really want to discuss this with her and tell her I think this is crazy and wrong. She made a comment once about how "I guess all churches are like this." I said, no, they arent! I dont know her very well, so I am not sure how to go about talking to her. I feel very strongly that I need to talk to her though. I have prayed about it and now feel it more and more. Just dont know what to say or how to go about it.

Any ideas?

I would say just be honest and sincere and kind...somethings you can fix and somethings you can't, leave up to her own maturity and responsibility to look after herself and God.

You're already headed in the right direction by praying about it. Maybe if you sit her down, and just explain that you are concerned that maybe Jesus (or Christianity?) is being misrepresented to her..?? I'm afraid I'm not much help, but I would just lovingly and honestly explain your concerns to her.

Is this friend a new Christian? I am assuming that they are. Definitley pray, but I think they key would be to show here within God's Word that what is going on in here church is not right.

I always think of John 8:32

No, actually, she isnt a new Christian.
Perhaps immature? Misled? I dont know. If she assumes "all churches are like this," then maybe thats the only kind she has been to. I do know she has been going to this particular church for only... maybe a year or more.

I suppose I need to pray more, ask for the right words. Trust that he will give them. I will see her this evening, so I am praying hard about this, that if God wants me to talk to her about this tonight, he will provide the right opportunity as well as the right words. Also, for the strength.

Definitley pray, but I think they key would be to show here within God's Word that what is going on in here church is not right.

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Wait.... you are right. I need to find verses. I know of plenty about not judging, some concerning churches and how they are to be. I need to write some or print some and have them ready. Thank you so much.

If anybody wants to offer up a verse too, that would be great as well.

It does sound like she may need to develop more spiritual majurity. Some christians stay in the infant stage of Spiritual growth their entire life.

But you are on the right track. Pray if God is in this he will open the door, and it you'll have the words.

this is judging ..and this pastor's supposedly "Spirit led gift" of discernment...is not that at all...

one thing to remember also, is that while the oppurtunity for spiritual growth and maturing is not something to take for granted...we are all in the process of change and growth and somethings we wont get "it" untill we grow a little longer. Sometimes you can't really speed the process, especially when it comes to things outside of actually reading and understanding scripture, getting to know God...being able to recognise whats him and whats not in the physical world around you is a sign of maturing in him. There are somethings that just wont be rushed, that we have to see for ourselves or well never understand.
Especcially since this pastor is a "man of God" in her life, this man is a pillar of strength and source of basis and foundation for her walk with God..however that may be going. She doesn't consider him anything but right...she honors and reveres him in fact... your words may not get through or your prayers change her today or tommorow, if she is a child of God she either has or will have times when God speaks to her himself or prompts her in the right direction, she is his child.

Dont get to caught up in someone elses stages of maturity and spiritual process, we all have our shortcomings and we are all on the road with Jesus, it takes time.

one thing to remember also, is that while the oppurtunity for spiritual growth and maturing is not something to take for granted...we are all in the process of change and growth and somethings we wont get "it" untill we grow a little longer. Sometimes you can't really speed the process, especially when it comes to things outside of actually reading and understanding scripture, getting to know God...being able to recognise whats him and whats not in the physical world around you is a sign of maturing in him. There are somethings that just wont be rushed, that we have to see for ourselves or well never understand.
Especcially since this pastor is a "man of God" in her life, this man is a pillar of strength and source of basis and foundation for her walk with God..however that may be going. She doesn't consider him anything but right...she honors and reveres him in fact... your words may not get through or your prayers change her today or tommorow, if she is a child of God she either has or will have times when God speaks to her himself or prompts her in the right direction, she is his child.

Dont get to caught up in someone elses stages of maturity and spiritual process, we all have our shortcomings and we are all on the road with Jesus, it takes time.

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Well, I saw her tonight, at the youth center our kids go to. 2 hours and there was literally not one opportunity. A sign perhaps? I dont know. I had prayed earlier, read my Bible and felt led to write out a good deal of verses. Took them with me.

What you say makes sense. When she told us this story, it was obvious she didnt like that the man was doing this, lest he see her and know her flaws, but I dont think she understood it was wrong. And who am I, a practical stranger, that she should believe me over this "Godly" man?

Yes, God has his own timetable. I want so much to be used by God, that I often take things upon myself thinking it is his will, that he needs my help. Sometimes he really does use me, yes, but other times... I just need to make sure I dont jump ahead of his will.

I did get one chance to let her know I wanted to speak with her. Told her to give me a call in the next couple of days. We shall see. If it is His will, it will work out. If it is not his will, well, I accidentally missed a call earlier. LOL I was on the other line, so I didnt see who it was.

I will pray more about this. Thanks to all for the help and replies.

Hi Trusting..
You're right, this is not discernment. Discernment is definitely a gift from God, and this guy is a judgmental Pharisee. It's actually Biblical that you help your friend, you owe it to her as her friend and as a Christian to tell her the truth. Then leave it in God's hands. Please keep us updated! I can't imagine anyone doing this. How sad ..When we need to reach the lost, and someone is doing something like this, someone in a leadership position. But, you know, God holds those people to a higher level of accountability as well..
God bless ..
Lisa

one thing I would encourage her is to be continuing in her own personal Bible studies too (especially if the church is not quite right, she needs to learn real Bible). Just that alone (with prayers and really seeking God) helped me when I was brand new christian to get away from the disobediences I saw. I believe real Bible reading is lacking in many, sadly.

Let us all put on goth outfits and start singing praise songs at that wal mart or something. It'd be funny.