Fred Phelps - giving Reformed Theology a Bad Name?

MerCYsMIraCLe · Mar 11, 2007

Believe it or not...until today I never heard of this guy. Now I see his website and I am disgusted. Of course, he claims to be a 5 point Calvinist, but IMO he is filled with hate and is an embarrassment not only to those Reformed, but to Christianity as a whole.

How can someone be so hateful. It is utterly disgusting.

MrsJoy · Mar 11, 2007

ICK!
I just googled him!
and I'm eating, bleck!
and yes, a bad name indeed.
I think that adds to the ideas that some have about us.
it's really sad really.
*edited to say*
I have heard of him and his church, but didn't realize he called himself a Calvinist. I didn't put two and two together at first.

MerCYsMIraCLe · Mar 11, 2007

would he be what is commonly known as a Hyper-Calvinist?

Ugh - I actually hate the term Calvinist BTW.

Ceridwen · Mar 12, 2007

The phenomenon of oppressive people employing the Doctrines of Grace is not unique to Phelps. The Christian Reconstructionist movement, which would criminalize homosexual sex, and witchcraft is also a Calvinist group. Some names are "Gary North," "Rousas Rushdoony," and "Greg Bahnsen,"

justjan · Mar 13, 2007

Lots of people claim to be all manner of things that the simply are not. 85% of Americans say they are Christians. In a recent study one third of Americans said that they would desert their families for $10 million dollars. Obviously both of those things cannot be true.

If one really understands God's grace, it would not be possible for them to regularly spew the hate that these folks spew.

anewinhim · Mar 13, 2007

I just looked at the website. Is that the same group of fools who protest Military funerals? I think it is, the name of that Church sounds so familiar, I think I saw it on one of their hate ads when they threatened to protest a soldiers funeral here.

MerCYsMIraCLe · Mar 13, 2007

I did meet a fellow once...older guy in his 70's perhaps. He called himself a Calvinist - but I never heard him speak one word of kindness - except a Praise God if you agreed with him on anything. Anyone, including other Cavinists that disagreed with him, were the product of the devil. He often referred to homosexuals as those 'Dam*D Dogs'. He even cursed at them and said some things I will never repeat. I even heard him that all Catholics are devil worshipers and the prostitute harlots of Babylon and curse at them also (this was in a public forum called Paltalk) ....(this is where I differ from Calvy's as I am not Anti-Catholic in the sense that they are to be unassociated with) Arminians were referred to as the unregenerate heretics who were destined for the pits of hell.

I understand that some may feel that way (not just some wacked out Calvy's) - but the hate that he sewed was sadly my first introduction to Calvinism. It has taken me years to understand that this is not common (nor is it welcomed) in the Reformed community, and that Reformed Theology is a beautiful doctrine, without hate. Infact, there are many Reformed ministries out there that minister and evangelize to homosexuals, drug addicts and the like.

Whereas I can't call myself a Calvinist (just yet), I see the truth...and that Calvinism is not a doctrine filled with hate and lost hope. I feel I fit in most here on CF.

arunma · Mar 13, 2007

I've known about Phelps for awhile. I heard that he was a Calvinist, but I doubt that most people know this (indeed most Americans don't know what a Calvinist is). So I wouldn't be overly concerned that he is giving Calvinism a bad name. I would be more concerned that he is giving the Gospel a bad name. All the general public knows about Phelps is that he is a Christian. So when they see him expressing gross hatred towards homosexual sinners and American soldiers, they think that he is acting in the name of Christ. Ultimately it is the Lord's name that is being desecrated here. And this, I think, should be our primary concern.

anewinhim · Mar 13, 2007

So it is the same group that advertised that they were going to protest a soldiers funeral here. They chickened out, my state passed a law making protests at funeral illegal, plus, with about 50+ angry cops, soldiers, and I even think several of the biker guys got involved. All of them were hanging out in the parking lot of that funeral home. I dont think they had the nerve to show up.

I still cant understand why they hate soldiers. I feel so sorry for the families who have had them hate mongers show up and protest their husbands funerals. If the greif of loosing a loved one is not bad enough, they have to deal with the circus side show of hate mongers holding up signs that they are going to H*ll.

They may claim to be Calvinists but they arent. I doubt they are even Christians, they are just evil and warped.

arunma · Mar 13, 2007

anewinhim said:
So it is the same group that advertised that they were going to protest a soldiers funeral here. They chickened out, my state passed a law making protests at funeral illegal, plus, with about 50+ angry cops, soldiers, and I even think several of the biker guys got involved. All of them were hanging out in the parking lot of that funeral home. I dont think they had the nerve to show up.

I still cant understand why they hate soldiers. I feel so sorry for the families who have had them hate mongers show up and protest their husbands funerals. If the greif of loosing a loved one is not bad enough, they have to deal with the circus side show of hate mongers holding up signs that they are going to H*ll.

They may claim to be Calvinists but they arent. I doubt they are even Christians, they are just evil and warped.

Their logic is that American soldiers are defending a country that harbors homosexuals, and are therefore evil. Pretty foolish, isn't it?

MerCYsMIraCLe · Mar 13, 2007

arunma said:
Their logic is that American soldiers are defending a country that harbors homosexuals, and are therefore evil. Pretty foolish, isn't it?

thats unbelievable. With that reasoning THEY are evil also as we al 'harbor' our own sin. Why they think they are any better than another is beyond me.

arunma · Mar 13, 2007

MerCYsMIraCLe said:
thats unbelievable. With that reasoning THEY are evil also as we al 'harbor' our own sin. Why they think they are any better than another is beyond me.

You won't find much disagreement here. It's generally accepted that Fred Phelps is a nutcase. Putting it mildly, the man has issues. What's really funny is that his "church" is comprised primarily of his immediate and extended family. I've never met a Christian, even among the most rabid of fundamentalists, who approves of this man.

anewinhim · Mar 13, 2007

You said:
Their logic is that American soldiers are defending a country that harbors homosexuals, and are therefore evil. Pretty foolish, isn't it?

You have got to be kidding right? That is pretty foolish, in fact, it dont even make good sense. That guy must be really mentally disturbed or something. Its a wonder they let him roam around freely....

arunma · Mar 13, 2007

anewinhim said:
You said:
Their logic is that American soldiers are defending a country that harbors homosexuals, and are therefore evil. Pretty foolish, isn't it?

You have got to be kidding right? That is pretty foolish, in fact, it dont even make good sense. That guy must be really mentally disturbed or something. Its a wonder they let him roam around freely....

No, I kid you not. This is really why they protest soldiers' funerals.

calmcoolandelected · Mar 14, 2007

anewinhim said:
I just looked at the website. Is that the same group of fools who protest Military funerals? I think it is, the name of that Church sounds so familiar, I think I saw it on one of their hate ads when they threatened to protest a soldiers funeral here.

I've seen those folks on TV and they are disgusting.

CC&E

5solas · Jul 13, 2007

Have a look at the BBC 2 documentary on the Phelps-familiy - it is very interesting, indeed (six parts, each ca. 10 minutes):

Part 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2QRyr3_nCF4

Part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N2h9NnUoYjw

Part 3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nuKOyzlYx0E

Part 4: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N41T53xE0QY

Part 5: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U0P9elMQgrc

Part 6: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RyPMTr5yMQI

calmcoolandelected · Jul 13, 2007

Ceridwen said:
The phenomenon of oppressive people employing the Doctrines of Grace is not unique to Phelps. The Christian Reconstructionist movement, which would criminalize homosexual sex, and witchcraft is also a Calvinist group. Some names are "Gary North," "Rousas Rushdoony," and "Greg Bahnsen,"

Rushdoony and Bahnsen........HMMMMMMMMM....

CC&E

bradfordl · Jul 13, 2007

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ceridwen
The phenomenon of oppressive people employing the Doctrines of Grace is not unique to Phelps. The Christian Reconstructionist movement, which would criminalize homosexual sex, and witchcraft is also a Calvinist group. Some names are "Gary North," "Rousas Rushdoony," and "Greg Bahnsen,"

Rushdoony and Bahnsen........HMMMMMMMMM....

CC&E

Always had some difficulty with how theonomy would be instituted, but I can't find a good argument against God's law being the law of the land. Rushdooney was a little further out there, but Bahnsen had a lot of good things to say, in my opinion.

So, Ceridwen, I suppose God was being an "oppressive person" when He prohibited such practices in His law? Modern man has apparently outpaced God in wisdom and tolerance. Well then, no wonder that the god of choice in the world today is man himself! Makes perfect sense.

Brad

StephanStrategy · Jul 13, 2007

anewinhim said:
So it is the same group that advertised that they were going to protest a soldiers funeral here. They chickened out, my state passed a law making protests at funeral illegal, plus, with about 50+ angry cops, soldiers, and I even think several of the biker guys got involved. All of them were hanging out in the parking lot of that funeral home. I dont think they had the nerve to show up.

I still cant understand why they hate soldiers. I feel so sorry for the families who have had them hate mongers show up and protest their husbands funerals. If the greif of loosing a loved one is not bad enough, they have to deal with the circus side show of hate mongers holding up signs that they are going to H*ll.

They may claim to be Calvinists but they arent. I doubt they are even Christians, they are just evil and warped.

I thought that was Westboro Baptist. Either way, nothing will get me steamed faster than protesting at a Soldiers funeral, essentially saying that their death is a "good" thing.

If there was ever a group I'd like to take behind the woodshed, or better yet, to the hospital here in Balad and show them the kind of hate our Soldiers are protecting them from (with their own lives). Give them a good look at real hate in all its stupidity.

GRRRRRRR......

heymikey80 · Jul 14, 2007

Ceridwen said:
The phenomenon of oppressive people employing the Doctrines of Grace is not unique to Phelps. The Christian Reconstructionist movement, which would criminalize homosexual sex, and witchcraft is also a Calvinist group. Some names are "Gary North," "Rousas Rushdoony," and "Greg Bahnsen,"

The phenomenon of oppressive people exploiting anything is not unique to Calvinism, either. Witness liberal actors advocating freedom yet abusing their families.

Humanity is evil. Calvinism asserts this, and predicts it will itself be maligned by such people.

Rushdoony and Bahnsen omitted the fact that the Law wasn't given to govern the world. It was given to a specific nation as a beacon to the world to point to Him and His Presence (cf Deut 4:6-8). Y'don't put a beacon on every housetop, or it just becomes confusing and lights no way at all.

Yet the Law expresses a morality that specially condemns and immediately punishes certain actions. That should be an indicator to us of the seriousness of these actions. The Law is spiritual and good; we're the ones sold as slaves to sin.

Fred Phelps - giving Reformed Theology a Bad Name?

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