Word Faith/Positive Confession

talk about inserting words. Integrty in not in the scripture, it does say that he was upright, that he shunned evil and feared God. But none of these address a condition of the heart. You have already agreed that the condition of Job's heart was in pride which is sin.

Originally posted by LouisBooth
"The truth is that God could have called the pharisees of Jesus day blameless also."

LOL, wrong again, will your rationatlization come to no end? God clearly said they were sinners. and not blameless.

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He also says that they have kept every measure of the law down to the smallest detail, therefore blameless under the law.  Paul says the same thing of himself concerning the law yet he was murdering christians while under the law.  According to Paul you can be blameless in the eyes of the law and still be in sin.  The fact that the law does not deal with matters of the heart is proof of this problem.

You can be blameless like Job and still be in sin.  Paul is the best example of this yet.  A pharisee of pharisees, remember.  God saw fit to humble Paul just as He saw fit to humble Job.

How in the world can you say that Job had a problem with pride and yet still say that he had no sin?  You yourself have said it was impossible to be with out sin, as does John.  God calls Abraham righteous and we know that he was full of sin.  To say that Job had no sin flies in the face of all scripture. 

"Integrty in not in the scripture, it does say that he was upright, that he shunned evil and feared God. "

Snup, just shows me you're not reading your bible

08538 tummah {toom-maw'}

from 08537; TWOT - 2522b; n f

AV - integrity 5; 5

1) integrity

There is the word used..here is the verse
Job 2:3 And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that [there is] none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? and still he holdeth fast his integrity, although thou movedst me against him, to destroy him without cause.

"He also says that they have kept every measure of the law down to the smallest detail, therefore blameless under the law. "

Yup, but it doesn't say blameless under the law, it says he was blameless PERIOD. Stop inserting your words into the scriptures.

"A pharisee of pharisees, remember. God saw fit to humble Paul just as He saw fit to humble Job."

Wrong again Snup. Paul never says he was blameless. he does say according to the law he was faultess, but that is something very very different.

"How in the world can you say that Job had a problem with pride and yet still say that he had no sin? "

the passage says that Job questioned God, not that he had a pride problem. I am saying BEFORE God allowed him to be sick or loose everything Job was blameless. thus God causes a perfectly faithful righteous man to be stricken with sickness. This in turn shows that your idea that to be sick is to be without faith to be totally wrong.

"To say that Job had no sin flies in the face of all scripture. "

I'm just quoting you scripture. The plain fact is that 1. Job was blameless and 2. God didn't do this to him because of sin.

Sorry I was looking at chapter one.

anyways, integrity is still just some on keeping the law.

in·teg·ri·ty Pronunciation Key (n-tgr-t)
n.
Steadfast adherence to a strict moral or ethical code.

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And I'm talking about something that goes beyound just the law.

In Job's day there was nothing else to compare to. The law was the standered of righteousness that God had set up.

Are you saying that Job did not fall short of the glory of God?

This is the requirement to never see sickness.

Paul had the bennifit of Jesus's preaching to compare to, Job did not.

"And I'm talking about something that goes beyound just the law."

*chuckles* no where does it say law. Do you not think that the heart is part of God's ethical code? Christ said it was and I'm inclined to agree. Job was blameless


"Sorry I was looking at chapter one."

I figured you hadn't read the book, its okay


"Are you saying that Job did not fall short of the glory of God?"

Hey, just quoting you what it says, just like abraham probalby righteousness was acredited to him by his faith in God.
He was blameless according to God, who am I to disagree?


"This is the requirement to never see sickness."

Wrong. That is not a biblical statement at all. Sickness as I have shown has NOTHING to do with sin. You can be sick and have it NOT caused by sin.

Accually I have read the book but I don't have it memorizes. Just because I don't agree does not mean that I have not read it. Your hitting a little low there.

God still brought correction to Abraham. God brought correction to Job. I'm simply saying that correcting Job was God's plan from the beggining. Why else would He mention Job to Satan. Reguardless of what God calls Job, he still need correcting. God had forknowledge, and created the environment to do that correcting.

"Just because I don't agree does not mean that I have not read it. Your hitting a little low there."

To not notice something that totally changes an idea you hold to the truth of God I'm trying to show you? I think you'd remember it. I also think you just glanced at the section without ever reading it, or you would have remembered it. that's just what I think though.

"I'm simply saying that correcting Job was God's plan from the beggining. Why else would He mention Job to Satan. "

The reason is clear, because it was his will. Thus God allowed job, a faithful man, to get sick. This, again, totally blows apart the WOF main teachings.

"God had forknowledge, and created the environment to do that correcting."

Again, you're inserting your thoughts onto the scriptures. God did it, because of his own reasons. That's what Job wanted to know, and God said, dont' question me, I know best. We can see that Job was 1. Faithful and 2. righteous and thus God sent sickenss onto a faithful and righeous man. so again, it disproves the faith movement quite nicely.
Being sick has NOTHING to do with being faithful or not being faithful.

Originally posted by SnuP
Accually I have read the book but I don't have it memorizes. Just because I don't agree does not mean that I have not read it. Your hitting a little low there.

God still brought correction to Abraham. God brought correction to Job. I'm simply saying that correcting Job was God's plan from the beggining. Why else would He mention Job to Satan. Reguardless of what God calls Job, he still need correcting. God had forknowledge, and created the environment to do that correcting.

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I agree.  And we see that pictured for us pretty plainly in 1 Kings 11.  God told Solomon that his kingdom would be blessed if he (Solomon) stayed true to God.  But Solomon did not listen and it says that God stirred up an adversary against Solomon and it fell during the reign of Solomon's son.  Before that the scripture said Solomon had no adversary and was at peace with every one around him.

"Before that the scripture said Solomon had no adversary and was at peace with every one around him."

*chuckles* so you assume that this book was written after all that? I still think this book accomanied by Job is a perfect refute to the faith movement.

Originally posted by LouisBooth
"Before that the scripture said Solomon had no adversary and was at peace with every one around him."

*chuckles* so you assume that this book was written after all that? I still think this book accomanied by Job is a perfect refute to the faith movement.

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Hi louis.
I also think that these books could very easily be used to refute the gospel and salvation by grace through faith. I think God intended for us to see these books and what they are saying as examples of what we are not to believe.
I have not studied Job for a while, but I do recall that he had to repent in the end of the things that he said. And his three friends were not exactily shining examples of faith and devotion.
I don't think the person who started this thread intended for us to go down this road... but that is just my view.
thanks
Hobs

"I also think that these books could very easily be used to refute the gospel and salvation by grace through faith. "

Yes, I agree, if you take verses out of context, but you can do that with any book.

"I have not studied Job for a while, but I do recall that he had to repent in the end of the things that he said"

Umm..yes he did. He repented of questioning God and what happened to him being God's will. He said it pretty clear in verse 3 of chapter 42..

"...surely I spoke of things I did not understand, things too wonderful for me to know..." Job is saying he was wrong for questioning God's will that all of these things happened to him, for it was God's will.