OSAS and re-baptism

Well done, Cougan

I hope this will help some see what the CoC beleives. And all glory to God the Father through Jesus Christ.

Please remember the words of Jesus in Matt 6:33 "But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.

1Samuel 15:22 Samuel said, Hath the Lord as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of the Lord? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams.

The above verse saids it all!

"1Samuel 15:22 Samuel said, Hath the Lord as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of the Lord? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams.
"

Agreed. That doesn't tell us that you can fall away though

Originally posted by Auntie_Belle_Um
Auntie asked:

"What if I get divorced and remarry, will I go to Hell for that?"

Cougan answered:

"This one is a hard one to answer for me because it can become complicated and I have always said that I am glad that I am not in this postion because it would be diffcult to deal with. I want to answer all your questions to the best of my abilty. I want to keep this brief. The answer to your question depends on wheather or not you were scriputually divorced or not. There are only 2 reason for a scriptual divorce that is adultry or death. If you fall into this catagory then you can remarry. If you divorce someone for anyother reason the bible would teach that you can not remarry. If you do you will be committing adultry. Remeber when you repent from something you turn away from it and dont do it anymore. So if you did remarry under the wrong conditions you would be living in an adultress relationship and the only way to truly repent would be to get out of that relationship."


Cougan, the reason it is hard for you to answer this question is because you cannot comprehend the enormous power of the Cross. Jesus did not suffer and die just so I could save myself thru my own self-righteous living. We are to live in righteousness, but God forbid that I should ever claim salvation thru righteous living.

My first marriage lasted for two years, and the divorce did not fit the biblical reasons you have stated. My second marriage is a strong Christian marriage that has lasted for 28 (twenty-eight) years. According to your beliefs, I must abandon my marriage so that I might save myself from Hell. Is this the power of the Cross? That I must tell my husband that I am leaving him, so that I can save my hide from Hell? God forbid.

.....but wait, there is an added demension, a loophole that might allow me to be saved *again*. While in the 9th year of my second marriage, my first husband was murdered. Can I assume that I was saved again when a murderer brutally killed my first husband? Did the unrighteous acts of a murderer bring me back into salvation?

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The reason why I say it is dificult is because I can sympthize with someone that has gotten there self into this condtion. It can be very hard when there are children involved. But, I can not change what the word of God says. Sometimes it can be diffcult to swallow when it applies to you. We have to put our human compasions to the side and obey that which God has told us.
Mat 5:32 "But I say to you that whoever divorces his wife for any reason except sexual immorality causes her to commit adultery; and whoever marries a woman who is divorced commits adultery.

So to answer you question yes to truely repent you would have to seperate from your husband because you were in an adultress relationship. Yes you can be forgiven of adultry but if you continue in it you are continueing to sin. Now let me factor in your loop hole as you have put it. First of all I would say that the bible teaches that you were living in adultry for the 1st 9 years of your mariage. When your 1st husband was murdered you were freed from that 1st marraige. 1cor 7:39 A wife is bound by law as long as her husband lives; but if her husband dies, she is at liberty to be married to whom she wishes, only in the Lord.

So as far as understand the word of God your 2nd marriage would be honered by God. But, the question is did you pray to the father and ask forgiveness of living a life of adultry for those 9 years? If you did not then you are spirtual seperated from God because that would be an unrepented unforgiven sin. Maybe this sounds crazy to you, but as far as I can tell this is what the bible teaches. If you can show me otherwize please point it out to me.

You claim that I am not being honest of what the COC teaches. I am being completely honest in what it teaches. I can personal vouge for at least 10 COC around my area that teach what I have proclaimed on here. You are not alone after you become a christian. Your brethern are there to help you by encourgeing you and exhorting you. Notice the following verses.

Ro 14:19 Therefore let us pursue the things which make for peace and the things by which one may edify another.
- Ga 5:13For you, brethren, have been called to liberty; only do not use liberty as an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another.
Ga 6:1-2Brethren, if a man is overtaken in any trespass, you who are spiritual restore such a one in a spirit of gentleness, considering yourself lest you also be tempted. 2 Bear one another's burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ.
He 3:12-13Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God; 13 but exhort one another daily, while it is called "Today," lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.
He 10:24-25 And let us consider one another in order to stir up love and good works, 25 not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as is the manner of some, but exhorting one another, and so much the more as you see the Day approaching.

These verses show our responsibility to one another. So you see we are not alone we have the help of our brothers in Christ. Notice how this next verse shows the importance of us watching out for our brothers.

. Ecc 4:9- Two are better than one, Because they have a good reward for their labor. 10 For if they fall, one will lift up his companion. But woe to him who is alone when he falls, For he has no one to help him up. 11 Again, if two lie down together, they will keep warm; But how can one be warm alone? 12 Though one may be overpowered by another, two can withstand him. And a threefold cord is not quickly broken.



We also have the help of Jesus as we see in this verse.
1 Jhon 2: 1My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. 2And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world.

And as I have already stated if we continue to walk in the light as Jesus is in the light his blood continues to cleanse of our sins. We have the power of prayer. 1Jhon 1:9 9If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.



God even helps us out by not allowing us to tempted more than we can bare and even provides us a way out our sin if we take it. 1 Cor 10:13 No temptation has overtaken you except such as is common to man; but God is faithful, who will not allow you to be tempted beyond what you are able, but with the temptation will also make the way of escape, that you may be able to bear it.

So how could you posible say that I or the COC say that we are on our own after we become a christian. However, it does end up boiling down to us does'nt it. If we do not take advantage of all this help that we have and decide ourselves not to obey God word we condem ourselves. We can see this in Philp 2:12 Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling;

You accuse me of living in fear of God. I guess that depends on what you view fear as. The bible plainly teaches that we are to fear God.

1Peter 2:17 Honor all people. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honor the king.
Prov 1:7 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge, But fools despise wisdom and instruction.
Prov 1:28 "Then they will call on me, but I will not answer; They will seek me diligently, but they will not find me.29 Because they hated knowledge And did not choose the fear of the LORD,
Prov 3:7 Do not be wise in your own eyes; Fear the LORD and depart from evil.
Acts 9:31 Then the churches throughout all Judea, Galilee, and Samaria had peace and were edified. And walking in the fear of the Lord and in the comfort of the Holy Spirit, they were multiplied.

Are you claiming that you dont fear God? Now the idea of fearing God is that of great respect towards God. If you are christian and walking in the light you have this fear of God. This does not mean that you are shaking in your boots biteing you nails. However if you find yourself not walking in the light being seperated from God I personal would be very scared to face the living God in that condition, would'nt you? I am very confindent in my salvation because I know that I am striving everyday to live my life for Christ. I am walking in the light and even if I stumble I don't stay down I get back up and continue walking.

Originally posted by cougan
You claim that I am not being honest of what the COC teaches. I am being completely honest in what it teaches.

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I was referring to your comment here:
"When we say Church of Christ we are just simply making reference to who the church belongs to and this name or idea is expressed in Rom 16:16."

And this was my reply to your comment:
"I will say this, I don't think you are being completely honest with me, or honest with yourself. The COC plainly teaches that everyone is going to Hell, unless they are a member of the COC."

Cougan, doesn't the COC say that you have to be a member of the COC to be saved? Can I be saved thru any other church, besides the COC? Tell me what the COC says about the Baptist Church. Doesn't the COC say that the Baptist Church is the enemy of the truth? Maybe you are not familiar with the COC opinion on Baptists:

http://www.gospelpreceptor.com/Ruffner6.htm

"From Heaven Or Of Men?"
The Baptist Church

Roelf L. Ruffner

"But in spite of all these things the Baptist Church is an enemy of Jesus Christ and His brethren. Their many fine qualities will do them no good in the Day of Judgment. "Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; and in thy name cast out devils? And in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity"(Matt.7:21-23).


The Baptists use the Wrong Name

All through the New Testament we find people using the name "Christian" to describe their allegiance to the risen Lord (cf.Acts 11:26;26:28; 1 Pet.4:16). Nowhere to we read of a Christian referring to himself as a "Baptist". Where is their authority from the New Testament to call themselves by this name? They claim John the Baptist ("the Immerser") as the source. But his name described what he did: immerse people. Though a great prophet, John was not a Christian (Matt.11:11). He belonged "before the Cross" or under the Old Covenant or Law of Moses. Years after the ascension of Jesus into Heaven the Apostle Paul found some followers of John who had been baptized in John's Baptism. Paul had them baptized "in the name of the Lord Jesus"(Acts 19:1-5) or the baptism for remission of sins commanded by Christ (Mark 16:16; Matt.28:18-20).

Was Paul a Baptist? How about Peter, James, Jude and Aquilla? By its very silence the inspired record votes a resounding "No!". There is no authority in the Bible for a Christian to call himself by any other religious appellation but the one given by the Lord (Matt.23:7-12; Col.3:17).

Conclusion

In this short study we have seen that the Baptist Church has departed from the Bible in regards to origin, teachings, name and organization. It would be unrecognizable to the early Christian. It does not fit the pattern Jesus and the writers laid down for His church, the church of Christ. Sadly, we must conclude it is an enemy of Truth.

I beseech my Baptist reader to forsake their man-made institution and go back to the Bible. Be saved like they were and added to the same church they were. The Baptist Church is not from heaven, but of men."

The COC also says the same thing about the Methodists, they use the wrong "name":

http://www.gospelpreceptor.com/ColleyG3.htm

"Second, Methodists wear a religious name that cannot be found in the Bible. This contributes to the religious division condemned by the Lord. (John 17:20-21; 1 Cor. 1:10-13). There is no church found in the New Testament under the name "Methodist Church". Had our precious Lord established such a church with all its various doctrines, this would certainly have been revealed on the pages of Holy Writ.

The Lord authorizes only one church (Matt. 16:18; Eph. 1:22-23; 4:4), one way to be saved (Matt. 7:13-14), and one fold into which all must enter to be able to enter heaven at last (John 10:1, 16). Salvation is never promised in the name "Methodist," or any other name than the name of Christ. (Acts 4:12; 1 Pet. 4:16)."


Cougan, the COC condemns ALL CHURCHES, every Catholic faith, every Protestant faith. EVERYONE is going to Hell, except the members of the COC. http://www.gospelpreceptor.com/index.htm

Cougan, I don't mean to put down your faith, I'm sure you are very devoted to it. And I'm sorry if you think I have acused you of anything, that was not my intent. My motivation is that you must understand what the COC teaches, in full. I am grateful to the COC for the wonderful memories I have attending church there with my granny when I was a child. I love the COC people there. What I don't agree with is the teaching that everyone, outside of the COC, is going to Hell.

Originally posted by Auntie_Belle_Um
The COC also says the same thing about the Methodists, they use the wrong "name":

http://www.gospelpreceptor.com/ColleyG3.htm

"Second, Methodists wear a religious name that cannot be found in the Bible. This contributes to the religious division condemned by the Lord. (John 17:20-21; 1 Cor. 1:10-13). There is no church found in the New Testament under the name "Methodist Church". Had our precious Lord established such a church with all its various doctrines, this would certainly have been revealed on the pages of Holy Writ.

The Lord authorizes only one church (Matt. 16:18; Eph. 1:22-23; 4:4), one way to be saved (Matt. 7:13-14), and one fold into which all must enter to be able to enter heaven at last (John 10:1, 16). Salvation is never promised in the name "Methodist," or any other name than the name of Christ. (Acts 4:12; 1 Pet. 4:16)."


Cougan, the COC condemns ALL CHURCHES, every Catholic faith, every Protestant faith. EVERYONE is going to Hell, except the members of the COC. http://www.gospelpreceptor.com/index.htm

Cougan, I don't mean to put down your faith, I'm sure you are very devoted to it. And I'm sorry if you think I have acused you of anything, that was not my intent. My motivation is that you must understand what the COC teaches, in full. I am grateful to the COC for the wonderful memories I have attending church there with my granny when I was a child. I love the COC people there. What I don't agree with is the teaching that everyone, outside of the COC, is going to Hell.

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Sense you brought these sites up in your post, is there anyone who can refute what is said on the sites you post.  What you should also state is that, the CoC does not say just one conregation is going to heaven.  What the bible teaches is that Christ only said that he will build his church Matt 16:18-19, and all the saved are in his church that he purchased with his own blood Acts 20:28, this church started in Acts 2.  What one can see very clearly is that the churches mentioned on the site in your post are all man made.  Now if they are willing to stop what they are doing, and do things the way the New testament teaches we would only have one church.  I'm sure everyone knows that.  But here something we all know to be true, the churches mentioned on the site you posted are clearly not found in the bible, you must addmit that for sure!  So where did they come from?  Remember Matt. 24:23-24 this is why we have so many different churches today, with all of the different doctrines.  You said that you use to be a member of the CoC, you still are, you may have strayed away, God is longsuffering and patient and his arms are still open, don't wait still it's to late.

Originally posted by LouisBooth
"1Samuel 15:22 Samuel said, Hath the Lord as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of the Lord? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams.
"

Agreed. That doesn't tell us that you can fall away though

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Luke 15:11-32 In this story of the lost son, if this young man had died while he was out watsing his substance with riotous living, would he have been saved?  We know he made it back home safe, but what if he had died out there where he was?  Jesus made it clear, that sheep can go astray, and in doing so they can lose the lives, there soul if you will.  Matt.16:24-27, Then  said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.  25 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.  26 For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?  27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according  to his works.  John 5:28-29 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice. 29 And shall some forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of the lost.

Here, Jesus tells us that one can lose his/her soul, and then in John he said we are judged for what we have done in this life.  You all can believe what you want to, but you better make sure it's what the bible says.  Study the bible carefully, and over and over again so that you don't miss anything.  From what I see, many people believe only the things that they like, and disguard the rest, but the bible clearly says, That we are going to be judged for every idle word that we speak, Matt. 12:36 so while we are out claiming that the bible teaches this or that, we better make sure we know what we are talking about.

If you owned a store and you told the manager to name the store with your name. You dont really care how its worded as long as it has your name in some how. Then you leave and come back and find out  that the manager decided to put his name on the store instead. What would you do? I would fire him would'nt you?

Just think a min about the following verse.

Acts 20:28 "Therefore take heed to yourselves and to all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood.
Col 1:18 And He is the head of the body, the church, who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in all things He may have the preeminence.

Jesus is the head of the church he purchased it with his blood. Why oh why would you want to name the church with some other name than by the one that gave his life for it? I personal see it as disrepect to God to put some name on a church that reflects the name of a man or creed or doctrine. I want you to pay attention this time. The COC does not teach that only those attending a place named COC will be saved. The COC does teach that you must be a member of the body of Christ which is the church. Remember there is only 1 body.

Ephesians 4:4 <I>There is </I>one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;

Romans 12:4 For as we have many members in one body, but all the members do not have the same function,5 so we, <I>being </I>many, are one body in Christ, and individually members of one another.

That one body is Christ body.

Colossians 1:24 I now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up in my flesh what is lacking in the afflictions of Christ, for the sake of His body, which is the church,

Jesus is the saviour of that body.

Ephesians 5:23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.

So one must be in the body/Christ in order to be saved. What does&nbsp;bible clearly teach on how to get into the body/Christ.

1Cor 12:12 For as the body is one and has many members, but all the members of that one body, being many, are one body, so also <I>is </I>Christ. 13 For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body -- whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free -- and have all been made to drink into one Spirit.

So you see one must be baptized into Christ death in order to be joined or added to the body of Christ through their faith in the working of God. Col 2:12-13. If you were baptized to join a church or become a member of one like the baptist church your baptism was invalid because baptism is not a act that is preformed that makes you member of a denomation. Since you brought up the Baptist I will continue to use them for an example. The Baptist will tell you that baptism is not necessary for salvation. They will even tell you that you don't have to be a member of the church to be saved. But if you want to be able to teach or searve as deacon or elder than you must be baptized into the baptist church before you are&nbsp; allowed to be in a leadership role. So what does this teach us. The baptist would tell us it is easier to get into heaven than it is to get into their church. Friends I ask you how can you be saved without being in Christ? You are either in his body/church or outside of his body/church.

One more example.

1Cor 6:15 Do you not know that your bodies are members of Christ? Shall I then take the members of Christ and make <I>them </I>members of a harlot? Certainly not!

16 Or do you not know that he who is joined to a harlot is one body <I>with her? </I>For "the two," He says, "shall become one flesh."

17 But he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit <I>with Him.</I>

Remember in my previos posts how I pointed out over and over again that it is at the point of baptism that we are joined or united with Christ. That is how we become members of Christ is through baptism. I don't personally have anything agaisnt the baptist. In fact I agree with the majorty of what the teach. The people there are just as nice a friendly as the people in the COC. It is quite interesting when you look at the baptist history because they used to teach that baptism was necessary for&nbsp;salvation and that it was for the remission of sin. But, it became much easier to convert large crowds by just haveing them saying a sinners prayer and accepting Jesus into their hearts. What an inconvience it was to have to baptise all those people. This is a complete twist of the scriptures to conform to the conveniece of man. You look through the bible and you will always see a working faith. Man would have faith then act upon that faith then came the blessing. Would you be willing to say that someone can be saved before their sins are washed away?&nbsp; This exactly what is being taught when it is said that you are saved before baptism. Please re read my previous post and you can plainly see that it is at the point of baptism that your sins are washed away. My hope is that anyone reading this message will honestly look at the scriptures and ideas I have presented and if you were not baptized into Christ body for the remission of sin that you do so today. Just like Ananias told Paul in

Acts 22:16 'And now why are you waiting? Arise and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on the name of the Lord.'

If I have failed to anwser someone questions restate it and I will answer it to the best of my abilty.

Cougan Collins

Cougan, where did you find this information about baptist history? I'm not the most well read historian in the world, but I've never found that teaching in baptist confessions of faith. I know there were groups such as the early anabaptists of Europe who had some different views on baptism, but the name anabaptist said it all. Anabaptist literally means re-baptise. Due to the fact that they felt infant baptism was not sufficient in that it did not follow repentance and a confession of faith.
The necessity of baptism in the regeneration process has never been recognized as part of any orthodox protestant church. In that baptism is an act of obediance, aiding in the sanctification process.....not in any way shape or form a part of justification of the believer....Justification is accomplished by Christ alone, in His payment at the cross. To add any stipulations to justification is to deem His work insufficient.
The Bible clearly tells us that baptism is necessary for the believer, it is our first outward act of obedience, but it is not a part of the regeneration process. If it were, then all who have been baptised would be saved, and that is clearly not the case, for there are I dare say many who have been baptised who are not truly of the faith.

"if this young man had died while he was out watsing his substance with riotous living, would he have been saved"

Yes. he would have still been part of the family and thus "saved" even though he died away from home.


"Here, Jesus tells us that one can lose his/her soul"

Nooooo. the purpose of that statement is to show how stupid it is to search after things of this world in relation to how much they actually benefit you. it also shows that you can't have 2 masters.


"Matt. 12:36 so while we are out claiming that the bible teaches this or that, we better make sure we know what we are talking about."

I study it daily thanks. I also take classes that involve studying it. I plan on attending seminary and devoting my life to it. I am quite sure that it says OSAS because God's grace doesn't fail.

Originally posted by Azeotroper
Cougan and Bible is Right,

Would I be correct in stating that the Churches of Christ view all of Christendom (which obviously is a false Christendom to the Churches of Christ), except themselves, as being apostate much like the Mormons viewed all of Christendom up until the time of Joseph Smith? If so, who represented the remnant that Christ always preserves during the time of the early church until Alexander Campbell/Barton Stone finally restored the "true church"?

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The bible holds the keys and still does, the remnant didn't exsist, because if it did Campbell/Stone wouldn't have&nbsp;to restore the new testament church.&nbsp;&nbsp;When men come to the knowledge of the truth as did Alexander Campbell/ Barton Stone and did what they found the new testament to truely teach the church was restored, and is still growing.&nbsp; &nbsp;The word was in seed form then and they found and embraced it, and it's going strong today.&nbsp; While all the denominations are still reforming and moving further and further away from the truth,&nbsp;and I know you can see the truth of that, men no longer believe God's plan of salvation, they no longer believe in the first century church that Christ purchased with his own blood, men have come up with all kinds of doctrine's not founded in the new testament, there's three or four churches&nbsp;at every intersection, all kinds of christian centers, people are saying lo christ is over here, or Christ is over there,&nbsp;women have taken the leadership over the man in many places, and think that is pleasing to God: and the men love to have it so.&nbsp;&nbsp; With that in mind, did Campbell/Stone need to RESTORE WHAT THE NEW TESTAMENT TAUGHT?&nbsp; YES, YES, YES.&nbsp; AND THANK GOD FOR WHAT THOSE MEN DONE FOR THE CAUSE OF&nbsp;JESUS CHRIST AND HIS CHURCH.

JN 4:19 "Sir," the woman said, "I can see that you are a prophet. 20 Our fathers worshiped on this mountain, but you Jews claim that the place where we must worship is in Jerusalem."

JN 4:21 Jesus declared, "Believe me, woman, a time is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem. 22 You Samaritans worship what you do not know; we worship what we do know, for salvation is from the Jews. 23 Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. 24 God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in spirit and in truth."

Men will tell us that we must go back to the mountain. But God's word says no. God will take care of His Church (Me and You) No man can take His worshipers back up that mountain.

If you look down from your mountain and see His worshipers and call them lost, you worship what you do not know.

Blessings

Originally posted by eldermike
JN 4:19 "Sir," the woman said, "I can see that you are a prophet. 20 Our fathers worshiped on this mountain, but you Jews claim that the place where we must worship is in Jerusalem."

JN 4:21 Jesus declared, "Believe me, woman, a time is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem. 22 You Samaritans worship what you do not know; we worship what we do know, for salvation is from the Jews. 23 Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. 24 God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in spirit and in truth."

Men will tell us that we must go back to the mountain. But God's word says no. God will take care of His Church (Me and You) No man can take His worshipers back up that mountain.

If you look down from your mountain and see His worshipers and call them lost, you worship what you do not know.

Blessings

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If you think you're right, then find one Methodist in the new testament, find on Roman Catholic in the new testament, find one Presbyterian, or Congregationalist, one Adentists in the new testament.&nbsp; Find one place where the Lord added someone to a Baptist church in the new testament.&nbsp; JUST FIND ONE?&nbsp; I know what we see in religion is not&nbsp;what God sent his Son in this world to die for and shed his blood for, if it is then the bible is all wrong.&nbsp; But you know and I know, the bible is right.&nbsp; And what we see in our world is not what the bible teaches the church aught to be.

Fellowships are not the church. That includes the COC, it's not the church either, it's a fellowship with a set of traditions and beliefs.

WE are the church. The vine has no sub branches, we are all grafted into the same vine. No one owns that vine. That vine is Jesus.

You can't go into a building, nor a fellowship and be with God, you must take Him in there with you and leave with Him. We are In Christ, Christ is in us.

Baptist, Methodist, whatever are a fellowship of His beleivers, not His church.

This is something you need to carefully consider. The message that all others are lost is one of fear, confusion and division. Who would bring such a message? God has never confused me, never made me afraid and never put me against my brothers in Christ. Bible, visit some other churches.

Blessings

Originally posted by eldermike
This is something you need to carefully consider. The message that all others are lost is one of fear, confusion and division. Who would bring such a message? God has never confused me, never made me afraid and never put me against my brothers in Christ. Bible, visit some other churches.

Blessings

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I have visited other churches, this is how I know what is right and what is wrong.

Originally posted by Azeotroper
Bible is Right,

Thanks for being honest!!!
I knew that the CoC believed I was on the way to Hell since I am not a member of their church, but did not know the CoC believed that ALL who lived between the early church and the 1800's were doomed as well.

I must admit it is funny, though, that different churches of Christ often view each other as being as "wrong" as Lutherans, Baptists, Methodists, etc.

And I do find it interesting that our local Church of Christ does not evangelize any of us heathens who attend other churches. I mean why not evangelize the lost?? I guess we are the swine that they don't want to cast their pearls toward.

Any comment?

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Now will you be honest with me?&nbsp; When you read the new testament, can you find the above churches in there?&nbsp; If not why?