Walid Shoebat - a Palestinian on Israel

MezzaMorta said:

There are many Palestinian Christians who suffer the same as any Palestinian at the hands of Israel.

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gwynedd1 said:

Yes but make that distinction. Also any Christians fighting along side Islam would be as guitly as zionist Christians fighting along side Israel.

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gwynedd1 said:

I think you mean Israel. Judah was a tribe of Israel and were essentially considered a single people at that time.

I am likewise appauled at your statements. Please read the scripture.

Romans 11
I have no interest in supporting aposate Jacab in any matter except to bring them to Christ. They are ungodly now. Only a remnant ever will be. This is a warning not to be proud or haughty. They are not in God's grace and they will not lead anyone to the light.

I am American with Croatian decent. Dubrovnik abolished slavery in 1418 and well before any of the so called enlightened west all the while its great rival Venice profited from it. The kingdom was all but destroyed by Ottoman Turks. Then it was Austian, Hungarian and Serbian domination that lead to Ustase. All the past wrongs justified the Croation state, even the mass murder of Serbs. Croatia also was not a state of a 1000 years until recently. Croations are also a mass of diaspora as a result of all this. Sound familiar at all?
This leads me to shame , not pride.


My family fled another war from the Ottomans and large European powers. Your pride in the flesh is your shame.

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KarrieTex said:

All I can do is shake my head at you.

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1: Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by command of God our Savior and of Christ Jesus our hope,
2: To Timothy, my true child in the faith: Grace, mercy, and peace from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Lord.
3: As I urged you when I was going to Macedonia, remain at Ephesus that you may charge certain persons not to teach any different doctrine,
4: nor to occupy themselves with myths and endless genealogies which promote speculations rather than the divine training that is in faith;

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gwynedd1 said:

We can agree on that because absolutely no scripture could support your concept of racial supremacy.

1 Timothy 1

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KarrieTex said:

I said they were God's chosen people

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KarrieTex said:

AHH and here comes the twisting...I never said racial supremacy for they are no better than an American, a Brit or so forth.

I said they were God's chosen people and Israel "belongs" to the Jews. That is their nation by right of convenant, which after reading Galations was NEVER negated by Christ's coming. They are vereses in support for us being grafted in.

Of course you can read whatever you want into my words. You are the type that will twist anything into it fits your thoughts no matter how wrong you are.

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The promise of Abraham was fulfilled in Jesus Christ.

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Matt 3
9: and do not presume to say to yourselves, `We have Abraham as our father'; for I tell you, God is able from these stones to raise up children to Abraham.
...

John 8
37: I know that you are descendants of Abraham; yet you seek to kill me, because my word finds no place in you.
38: I speak of what I have seen with my Father, and you do what you have heard from your father."
39: They answered him, "Abraham is our father." Jesus said to them, "If you were Abraham's children, you would do what Abraham did,
40: but now you seek to kill me, a man who has told you the truth which I heard from God; this is not what Abraham did.
41: You do what your father did." They said to him, "We were not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God."
42: Jesus said to them, "If God were your Father, you would love me, for I proceeded and came forth from God; I came not of my own accord, but he sent me.
43: Why do you not understand what I say? It is because you cannot bear to hear my word.
44: You are of your father the devil, and your will is to do your father's desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, and has nothing to do with the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks according to his own nature, for he is a liar and the father of lies.

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gwynedd1 said:

Here is my quote
Here is your statement
"Galations was NEVER negated by Christ's coming."

Please do the same against me if I am twisting your words. I claim you consider race as involving the promise of God because you said

"I wanted to add that we as Christians should uphold Israel. God is VERY CLEAR IN HIS CONVENANT TO ABRAHAM IN REGARDS TO THE JEWISH NATION."



As Paul states Christ fulfills and does not abolish the law. I repeat again the promise of Abraham was provided by Christ. Any other doctrine such as your racially supremicist doctrine is not a Christian doctrine.

The bible says

The kingdom of God is a nation of faith.

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KarrieTex said:

The Kingdom of God and His chosen people are two different and distinct things.

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I don't believe you are even aware of your own misstep.

Oh but please continue to maligne my thoughts. I am starting to see past that utter disbelief to actually the humor of your twisting.

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gwynedd1 said:

Not according to any scripture.




I am quoting you directly and in doing so I expressed how you were twisting my intepretation of Galations. You are stating opinions and Ad Hominan fallacy.

Simply make an in context argument using the New Testament and make your case. Even OT scripture can seen as to depend completly upon the context of obediance and faith in God. Anyone who did not do so was cut off from the people.
The New Testament established the context that many did not follow this path. The ones that did saw God coming to the Gentiles and were glad. You have by your own words put yourself at the seat of honor at the table. The path to God always was and will always remain one of faith and humility.

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KarrieTex said:

I am not twisting anything that I have not read and assumed by you entire context.

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As I said when I stated Gen., is that we are to bless them and we will be blessed and if we curse them we will be cursed.

I am not able to get to where need to about the convenants standing but Christ's coming AGAIN did not negate or do away with the convenants of the OT. Again, you seem to ignore that.

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0: How then was it reckoned to him? Was it before or after he had been circumcised? It was not after, but before he was circumcised.
11: He received circumcision as a sign or seal of the righteousness which he had by faith while he was still uncircumcised. The purpose was to make him the father of all who believe without being circumcised and who thus have righteousness reckoned to them,
12: and likewise the father of the circumcised who are not merely circumcised but also follow the example of the faith which our father Abraham had before he was circumcised.
13: The promise to Abraham and his descendants, that they should inherit the world, did not come through the law but through the righteousness of faith.
14: If it is the adherents of the law who are to be the heirs, faith is null and the promise is void.

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I do seat at the table of honor. I am after all one of His children. Not only through blood but most importantly by Christ's blood.

There is a point where you are to either walk away or try and fight more. I am not going to waste (yes, I do mean waste) my effort on this.

I have said what I believe and my bible does not short Israel on who she is and who she is to God.

As you sit on your high horse, remember that you are not just talking to a Christian but one of Jewish decent. I take exception to your hate and to your utter lack of understanding.

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yod said:

There have always been those who mock the promise of God towards Israel. They end up on the ash-heap of history.

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yod said:

that is a utterly racist comment.

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Not all jews reject Him...just as not all gentiles do. The percentages are about the same, btw.

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Here is a more important question for you: What does the bible say about those who hate their brother?

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I'm finishing David Baron's book on Zechariah, probably this week. Today was Chapter 12 in which it is made clear what happens to those who oppress Israel - the land and the people. It is not a position I want to be in.

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yod said:

that is incorrect, bro, and shows that you don't have a good handle on the Covenants or their purposes.


There are many covenants. The Abrahamic covenant is as more of a real estate covenant for his physical seed than anything else. This covenant was repeated to Isaac and to Jacob. The physical descendants of Abraham receive the sign of circumcision in their flesh to seal this covenant.

In the new Covenant, the spiritual circumcision doesn't negate the physical. This is clear in that the gentiles are given a different physical sign, baptism. It's a different covenant altogether yet circumcision for jews remains intact. BOTH covenants are received by grace through faith and require some outward symbol as acceptance of the Covenant.


All that aside, don't you find it interesting that since the days of Joshua, that land has only been named for one nation? (hint: Israel)

There have been other nations acting as a ruler over the region, but there has never been another nation there but Israel. Neither has there been another capital but Jerusalem. God kept it waiting for them to return to the Covenant He made with them (if you can trust that God is not a liar)


2 Chronicles 30:8-10

8 Now be ye not stiffnecked, as your fathers were, but yield yourselves unto the LORD, and enter into his sanctuary, which he hath sanctified for ever: and serve the LORD your God, that the fierceness of his wrath may turn away from you.
9 For if ye turn again unto the LORD, your brethren and your children shall find compassion before them that lead them captive, so that they shall come again into this land: for the LORD your God is gracious and merciful, and will not turn away his face from you, if ye return unto him.
10 So the posts passed from city to city through the country of Ephraim and Manasseh even unto Zebulun: but they laughed them to scorn, and mocked them.


There have always been those who mock the promise of God towards Israel. They end up on the ash-heap of history.

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0: By faith Isaac invoked future blessings on Jacob and Esau.
21: By faith Jacob, when dying, blessed each of the sons of Joseph, bowing in worship over the head of his staff.
22: By faith Joseph, at the end of his life, made mention of the exodus of the Israelites and gave directions concerning his burial.
23: By faith Moses, when he was born, was hid for three months by his parents, because they saw that the child was beautiful; and they were not afraid of the king's edict.
24: By faith Moses, when he was grown up, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh's daughter,
25: choosing rather to share ill-treatment with the people of God than to enjoy the fleeting pleasures of sin.
26: He considered abuse suffered for the Christ greater wealth than the treasures of Egypt, for he looked to the reward.
27: By faith he left Egypt, not being afraid of the anger of the king; for he endured as seeing him who is invisible.
28: By faith he kept the Passover and sprinkled the blood, so that the Destroyer of the first-born might not touch them.
29: By faith the people crossed the Red Sea as if on dry land; but the Egyptians, when they attempted to do the same, were drowned.
30: By faith the walls of Jericho fell down after they had been encircled for seven days.
31: By faith Rahab the harlot did not perish with those who were disobedient, because she had given friendly welcome to the spies.

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21: Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he offered his son Isaac upon the altar?
22: You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by works,
23: and the scripture was fulfilled which says, "Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness"; and he was called the friend of God.

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51: "You stiff-necked people, uncircumcised in heart and ears, you always resist the Holy Spirit. As your fathers did, so do you.
52: Which of the prophets did not your fathers persecute? And they killed those who announced beforehand the coming of the Righteous One, whom you have now betrayed and murdered,
53: you who received the law as delivered by angels and did not keep it."
54: Now when they heard these things they were enraged, and they ground their teeth against him.

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32: And we bring you the good news that what God promised to the fathers,
33: this he has fulfilled to us their children by raising Jesus; as also it is written in the second psalm, `Thou art my Son, today I have begotten thee.'
34: And as for the fact that he raised him from the dead, no more to return to corruption, he spoke in this way, `I will give you the holy and sure blessings of David.'
35: Therefore he says also in another psalm, `Thou wilt not let thy Holy One see corruption.'
36: For David, after he had served the counsel of God in his own generation, fell asleep, and was laid with his fathers, and saw corruption;
37: but he whom God raised up saw no corruption.
38: Let it be known to you therefore, brethren, that through this man forgiveness of sins is proclaimed to you,
39: and by him every one that believes is freed from everything from which you could not be freed by the law of Moses.

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MezzaMorta said:

There is abosultly no historical consensus among nations that have done so, the Roman Empire forced the Jews into exile and experienced 300 years of peace, prosperity and by most accounts the most successful time in the empire.

I don't know what the Jews obsession with trying to prove some nonsence about those who support modern Israel will be blessed.... i guess they just realize that their immoral, terroriststic Apartheid state isn't going to get much support on the basis of occupying and opressing the Palestinian people and it's consistant violation of disregard for Human rights so they figure they'd try and use the name of God to scare people into supporting them.

luckily only the US and Apartheid South Africa fell for that..... one down.... one to go.
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ContentInHim said:

If you would only read the Bible, you would know what is going to happen. Honestly, what kind of believer are you? You distrust zionist Christians and believe radical islam is OK. You hate your brothers and revile and slander them.

READ YOUR BIBLE - I'll send you one if you don't have one. Until then, your rhetoric is just so much hot air of hatred.

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yod said:

that is incorrect, bro, and shows that you don't have a good handle on the Covenants or their purposes.


There are many covenants. The Abrahamic covenant is as more of a real estate covenant for his physical seed than anything else. This covenant was repeated to Isaac and to Jacob. The physical descendants of Abraham receive the sign of circumcision in their flesh to seal this covenant.

In the new Covenant, the spiritual circumcision doesn't negate the physical. This is clear in that the gentiles are given a different physical sign, baptism. It's a different covenant altogether yet circumcision for jews remains intact. BOTH covenants are received by grace through faith and require some outward symbol as acceptance of the Covenant.


All that aside, don't you find it interesting that since the days of Joshua, that land has only been named for one nation? (hint: Israel)

There have been other nations acting as a ruler over the region, but there has never been another nation there but Israel. Neither has there been another capital but Jerusalem. God kept it waiting for them to return to the Covenant He made with them (if you can trust that God is not a liar)


2 Chronicles 30:8-10

8 Now be ye not stiffnecked, as your fathers were, but yield yourselves unto the LORD, and enter into his sanctuary, which he hath sanctified for ever: and serve the LORD your God, that the fierceness of his wrath may turn away from you.
9 For if ye turn again unto the LORD, your brethren and your children shall find compassion before them that lead them captive, so that they shall come again into this land: for the LORD your God is gracious and merciful, and will not turn away his face from you, if ye return unto him.
10 So the posts passed from city to city through the country of Ephraim and Manasseh even unto Zebulun: but they laughed them to scorn, and mocked them.






There have always been those who mock the promise of God towards Israel. They end up on the ash-heap of history.

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