Isn't Evolution Biblical?

TheBear

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Originally posted by Susan
All evolutionists reject the Bible and God's truth for their lives, no matter what they say. . .

wolves. . .or should I say "bears?"

:(

Susan,

The next time you disagree with someone's interpretation of scripture, and wish to condemn them, pray first and ask God if you have any right to do so. :(

Does everyone have to be in lock-step with your understanding of all scripture? :(

How dare you! :(

These type of comments prove that not all people are fit to discuss disagreements or differences with others. :(


John
 
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TheBear

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Originally posted by LightBearer
But this was done under inteligent direction from God through Holy Spirit, not evolutionary forces such as blind chance and  mutations and such.

Evolution as science states it, for example animals evolving from lower creatures is not found in scripture at all.

Yes, evolution was done under intelligent design......God's design. :)
 
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eldermike

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Susan,

I agree totally with the advise given by The Bear.

I also include some advise from CF.

1) You will not post any messages that harrass, insult, belittle, threaten or flame another member or guest. You may discuss another member's beliefs but there will be no personal attacks on the member himself or herself.

Blessings
 
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Smilin

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assalamu alaikum
shalom aleykom,
Greetings and thanks for starting this thread.

Let me start with a simple statement:

How can biblical scripture stand without accpepting evolution within the creation?

To begin with, let's look at the first passage in the bible:
Genesis 1
1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. ..........

Notice there is no timeline given for how long the earth stood without form and void. So, how long did God allow the earth to stand before continuing?
Noone can answer this question (biblically) with the scarce information that is given us. Therefore, I submit that the current age of the earth, 4.5 billion years, does not conflict with biblical scripture.

Secondly, the bible is full of symbology, and I'll state that it shouldn't be taken literally. (another thread I intend on starting soon)

Now, if we are to accept that Adam and Eve were the first humans, then explain the diversity of the human race....i.e., Africans, Native Americans, Chinese, the list goes on and on. The only plausible way to explain this is through Natural Selection. If your viewpoint is strictly that God created everything, then explain to me the diversity that exists among the human race. You can't, without accepting what science, ranchers, dog breeders, etc. have shown. Natural Selection.

Paulewog: "Evolution is not Biblical... you don't find evolution in the Bible, you have to twist the Bible to make room for it."
- Again, I challenge you to explain the many physical differences that exists among the various ethnic cultures without accepting the scientific proof that all living things evolve.


Thirdly, the bible is full of symbology, and I'll state that it shouldn't be taken literally. (another thread I intend on starting soon), so If you wish to contradict my statement (I encourage it actually) we'll take it to another thread.

Scott, you state:
"....And no evolution has ever been observed or demonstrated...."
-Okay, then please explain the following to me:
1. Hybrids
2. Selective reproduction (commonly used by animal breeders)
3. Extinction due to random and induced events.
4. Neanderthals....where did they come from, why did they become extinct?
(Just a few examples of evolution, which can be shown)....

"The modern science of genetics which Darwin did not have shows the foolishness of the notion of evolution. "
-Science didn't freeze with Darwin, as just as it didn't with Newton or Einstein. This statement just indicates you have been misinformed on what Darwin hypothesized and what science has shown since then. Scienctific knowledge INCREASES...theories & laws have been re-written whenever necessary.

"The Bible is clearly young earth non evolution in its presentation."
-I'd LOVE to discuss this one with you. Please take advantage of my post on "Young Earth Creation" and state your case. (the young earth notion)

"You can certainly chose to reject the Bible if you want, but don't try to make it say that everything evolved."
- That is not what I'm saying, and I certainly don't reject the Bible. Are you trying to tell me the bible should be taken literally? If so, let's take that one to another thread as well.
 
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ok guys, calm down, you are all missing the point!

I was hoping to get some scientists who are freethinkers, muslim and christians on this thread.

With the exception of my new friend the Bear, it seems that no one has addressed the FACT of evolution. The THEORYmay be false, but that does not change its status as FACT. So, I post the definition of evolution again: Change over time. Biological Evolution: bilogical and physiological change over time in order to adapt to differing environments.

This brings up the questions:
1.Does the Earth consist of one homogenous environment?
2. Are human beings clones of each other?
3. If we are not clones of each other, then how can descent with modification and genetic recombination NOT be seen as CHANGES OVER TIME?
4.why is it in the Hebrew Bible, two different words are used for mankind's spirit in the Genesis account?
5. Is it not LIKELY that Adam was the first sentient MAN, and that other MEN existed before that were not sentient?
6. Is not the idea that there was no death before Adam and Eve pure interpolation? The bible says that the consequences of sin is death.This does not mean that death did not occur before. It also means that, by sin, death entered MANKIND'S existence, NOT that death never existed before.
7.Is it not possible that after obtaining sentience, and then knowledge of good and evil, Mankind had no excuse for sin, and the punishment for sin while you know is eternal death.
8.If there was no death before Adam, then what did the animals eat?How could the plants not oversaturate the air with C02, IF THEY DID NOT DIE?
9.I urge all creationists, muslim and christian and jew to resolve the idea that the Bible BOTH says that the WORLD was created in six days, and that a day with g-d is like 10,000 YEARS AND SO ON.mIND YOU, i DO NOT THINK THAT BIBLE GIVES AN ACCURATE ACCOUNT OF EVOLUTION OR THAT THE BIBLE ITSELF IS CORRECT IN EVERYTHING, BUT THE BIBLE DOES SEEM TO SPEAK OF IT'S OWN THEORY OF EVOLUTION.

remember:evolution is change over time.Someone please try to answer the above questions with this in mind, and tell me how Evolution as FACT can be rejected based on this definition.

*Man Evolves, G-D does not*

peace and blessings
 
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Gerry

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I have just read through this thread. Ya know what? This thread has nothing at all to do with evolution. What this thread is about is how do you view the Bible.

If you believe in a Literal interpretation of the Bible, there is no room for evolution, or even Theistic Evolution.

If on the other hand you reject a literal interpretation of the Bible there is plenty of room for evolution.

Since that issue is not even being addressed directly, no minds will be changed. Why not move on to a thread and discuss why you accept or reject a literal interpretation of the Bible?

For the record, I personally go with the Literal interpretation. Otherwise it is too complicated deciding what is literal and what is figurative. But to me the important thing is what you think of Jesus, and whether He was literal and what He did was literal. If we can agree on Jesus, I could care less if you believe in Theisitc Evolution or not.

The question was: "Isn't Evolution Biblical?" The answer is: Depends on whether you accept or reject a literal interpretation of the Bible.
 
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Soul_Searcher

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Hi Ansar, quite the debate you started here. I read through the postings and saw your questions at the end. Here is my take on them:

1.Does the Earth consist of one homogenous environment?

Obviously not, if one hasever traveled.

2. Are human beings clones of each other?

DOH! No.

3. If we are not clones of each other, then how can descent with modification and genetic recombination NOT be seen as CHANGES OVER TIME?

You mean like my son being 3" taller than me? (You do realize you're using logic to combat illogic, don't you?)

4.why is it in the Hebrew Bible, two different words are used for mankind's spirit in the Genesis account?

Why are there two words for God? Elohim and YHWH? (And isn't Elohim technically plural?) Could it be there were two writers between Gen 1 & Gen 2?

5. Is it not LIKELY that Adam was the first sentient MAN, and that other MEN existed before that were not sentient?

Like Neanderthals? And not even going there, but where did the people come from who Cain hooked up with after he was expelled from Eden? If Adam was the first man, Cain and Abel were the first (and only) children, what happened?

6. Is not the idea that there was no death before Adam and Eve pure interpolation? The bible says that the consequences of sin is death. This does not mean that death did not occur before. It also means that, by sin, death entered MANKIND'S existence, NOT that death never existed before.

Again, that logic problem rears its ugly head. I would say though, that through sin we separated ourselves from God, and have been trying ever since to get back home.

7.Is it not possible that after obtaining sentience, and then knowledge of good and evil, Mankind had no excuse for sin, and the punishment for sin while you know is eternal death.

We still have no excuse for sin, except fear. What do we fear anyhow?

8.If there was no death before Adam, then what did the animals eat? How could the plants not oversaturate the air with C02, IF THEY DID NOT DIE?

(shaking head)

9.I urge all creationists, muslim and christian and jew to resolve the idea that the Bible BOTH says that the WORLD was created in six days, and that a day with g-d is like 10,000 YEARS AND SO ON. MIND YOU, I DO NOT THINK THAT BIBLE GIVES AN ACCURATE ACCOUNT OF EVOLUTION OR THAT THE BIBLE ITSELF IS CORRECT IN EVERYTHING, BUT THE BIBLE DOES SEEM TO SPEAK OF IT'S OWN THEORY OF EVOLUTION.

Such heresy! Ok, sorry for the sarcasm, but you're arguing with people who can't see the forest for the trees. You and Bear and others can see the Bible as the book of wisdom that it is, and don't have to believe in its perfection to believe in its lesson. It's not God's perfect word or else God is very imperfect. It is God's word in the fact that the lessons are always right. Those who live lives of faith and Love connect with God, those who don't separate themselves further from God.

A perfect God doesn't need a perfect Bible, just faith the size of a mustard seed.
 
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Hank

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Originally posted by ansarthemystic

I was hoping to get some scientists who are freethinkers, muslim and christians on this thread.

With the exception of my new friend the Bear, it seems that no one has addressed the FACT of evolution. The THEORYmay be false, but that does not change its status as FACT. So, I post the definition of evolution again: Change over time. Biological Evolution: bilogical and physiological change over time in order to adapt to differing environments.

remember:evolution is change over time.Someone please try to answer the above questions with this in mind, and tell me how Evolution as FACT can be rejected based on this definition.

*Man Evolves, G-D does not*

peace and blessings [/B]

I think I am a free thinker.

Part of evolution which is proven, this proven part is very much limited. I simply don't accept different species evolving from common ancestors. The reason is very simple. Every living creature is composed of view basic elements. Thus it is inevitable to think we are all evolved from this gene pool.
When I look, on how those parts work and function, I see thought not [u[struggle[/u], thus I clink to the idea of being created and not having evolved. Because of that, I also think abiogenesis can never be proven. It requires full trust in that living things can act within to broaden their existence. In essence that what abiogenesis is to me.

As for the Bible proving evolution, I can take the Bible and prove anything I wish.
 
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Hank

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Originally posted by Soul_Searcher
Hi Ansar, quite the debate you started here. I read through the postings and saw your questions at the end. Here is my take on them:

1.Does the Earth consist of one homogenous environment?

Obviously not, if one hasever traveled.


I disagree.
Matter acts on space-time. Space-time on matter. Bees and flowers, ant colonies, your daily bread.
Unless you traveled outside this universe, you are an integral part of the universe. You depend every second of your life on it being homogenous. - If the exact balance of the electric charge between protons and electrons would stop you are no more. Etc.
 
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Sinai

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Originally posted by ansarthemystic
4.why is it in the Hebrew Bible, two different words are used for mankind's spirit in the Genesis account?
5. Is it not LIKELY that Adam was the first sentient MAN, and that other MEN existed before that were not sentient?

Hebrew has two words for soul, nefesh (or nephesh) and neshama (or nishmath), and both come into play in the first two chapters of Genesis. When Genesis 1:21 tells us that “God created…every living creature,” it signifies that all animals (humans included) are infused with the nefesh or soul of life--i.e., they are living creatures. When humans are mentioned a few verses later (Genesis 1:27 and 2:7), the text tells of a further creation that distinguishes humans from lower animals: The third “creation” mentioned in the first chapter of Genesis is of our human soul (or God's spirit or God's breath of life or the capacity to fellowship with God), our neshama (the first two “creations” were of the universe and of life).

The closing of Genesis 2:7 has a subtlety lost in the English: It is usually translated as: “…and [God] breathed into his nostrils the neshama of life and the adam became a living soul” (Gen. 2:7). Dr. Gerald Schroeder has noted that the Hebrew text actually states: “…and the adam became to a living soul.” Nahmanides, seven hundred years ago, wrote that the “to” (the Hebrew letter lamed prefixed to the word “soul” in the verse) is superfluous from a grammatical stance and so must be there to teach something. Lamed, he noted, indicates a change in form and may have been placed there to describe mankind as progressing through stages of mineral, plant, fish, and animal. Finally, upon receiving the neshama, that creature which had already been formed became a human. He concludes his extensive commentary on the implications of this lamed as “it may be that the verse is stating that [prior to receiving the neshama] it was a completely living being and [by the neshama] it was transformed into another man.”


6. Is not the idea that there was no death before Adam and Eve pure interpolation? The bible says that the consequences of sin is death.This does not mean that death did not occur before. It also means that, by sin, death entered MANKIND'S existence, NOT that death never existed before.
7.Is it not possible that after obtaining sentience, and then knowledge of good and evil, Mankind had no excuse for sin, and the punishment for sin while you know is eternal death.
8.If there was no death before Adam, then what did the animals eat?How could the plants not oversaturate the air with C02, IF THEY DID NOT DIE?

The Bible does not say or even imply that there was no physical death prior to the first sin. Although the Bible does say that death entered the world through that first sin, it makes clear that it is referring to spiritual death. Just because we accept Christ as our personal savior does not mean we will never die physically--it means we will spend eternity with God instead of being separated from him.
 
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Smilin

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Originally posted by Live!
The Bible does not prove evolution, but it does not disprove it either.

Is evolution Biblical? It depends on your interpretation of the Bible.

Live:

I'll pose the same question to you as I have the others.  If we are to believe that Adam and Eve were the first humans, then how do you explain the ethnic diversity among the human race?  The only reason I can find to explain this is natural selection.  Natural selection is also responsible for the many different breeds of dogs, cats, cows, horses, etc that are present today.  Why should we assume that this mechanism does not apply to the human race as well?  The answer to this question is not a matter of interpretation of the bible.  I'm very familiar with Genesis, yet it shows me no biblical reason for the different races that exist today.  

So why do Christians fear evolution?  Would not the natural mechanism of natural selection/selective reproduction which is present in all living things answer this question?

Again, I make the following claim:  Life as we currently know it...and the origins of life as the bible documents it cannot agree unless one takes into account how the creation has evolved over time.
 
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Soul_Searcher

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Ah Hank, you ol' nit-picker you. Of course it's all tied together, but for the sake of this discussion I was pointing out that the 'environment' changes from place to place, and people have "evolved" to adapt to it, be it diet, fat retention, sweat glands, etc. Let's say, for the sake of argument, that Asian peoples came across the Bearing Straits long ago. Some went north and are now who we call Eskimos. Some went south and became, oh, Mayans. At one time, they were one people, now they are very different in terms of dietitary needs, body size, resistance to weather, etc. That's all. :)
 
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Originally posted by Sinai
Hebrew has two words for soul, nefesh (or nephesh) and neshama (or nishmath), and both come into play in the first two chapters of Genesis. When Genesis 1:21 tells us that “God created…every living creature,” it signifies that all animals (humans included) are infused with the nefesh or soul of life--i.e., they are living creatures. When humans are mentioned a few verses later (Genesis 1:27 and 2:7), the text tells of a further creation that distinguishes humans from lower animals: The third “creation” mentioned in the first chapter of Genesis is of our human soul (or God's spirit or God's breath of life or the capacity to fellowship with God), our neshama (the first two “creations” were of the universe and of life).

The closing of Genesis 2:7 has a subtlety lost in the English: It is usually translated as: “…and [God] breathed into his nostrils the neshama of life and the adam became a living soul” (Gen. 2:7). Dr. Gerald Schroeder has noted that the Hebrew text actually states: “…and the adam became to a living soul.” Nahmanides, seven hundred years ago, wrote that the “to” (the Hebrew letter lamed prefixed to the word “soul” in the verse) is superfluous from a grammatical stance and so must be there to teach something. Lamed, he noted, indicates a change in form and may have been placed there to describe mankind as progressing through stages of mineral, plant, fish, and animal. Finally, upon receiving the neshama, that creature which had already been formed became a human. He concludes his extensive commentary on the implications of this lamed as “it may be that the verse is stating that [prior to receiving the neshama] it was a completely living being and [by the neshama] it was transformed into another man.”



The Bible does not say or even imply that there was no physical death prior to the first sin. Although the Bible does say that death entered the world through that first sin, it makes clear that it is referring to spiritual death. Just because we accept Christ as our personal savior does not mean we will never die physically--it means we will spend eternity with God instead of being separated from him.

tHANK YOU,

THIS IS EXACTLY THE INFO i WAS SEARCHING FOR!

peace and blessings
assalamu alaikum
shalom aleykom
 
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Originally posted by Smilin
assalamu alaikum
shalom aleykom,
Greetings and thanks for starting this thread.

Let me start with a simple statement:

How can biblical scripture stand without accpepting evolution within the creation?

To begin with, let's look at the first passage in the bible:
Genesis 1
1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. ..........

Notice there is no timeline given for how long the earth stood without form and void. So, how long did God allow the earth to stand before continuing?
Noone can answer this question (biblically) with the scarce information that is given us. Therefore, I submit that the current age of the earth, 4.5 billion years, does not conflict with biblical scripture.

Secondly, the bible is full of symbology, and I'll state that it shouldn't be taken literally. (another thread I intend on starting soon)

Now, if we are to accept that Adam and Eve were the first humans, then explain the diversity of the human race....i.e., Africans, Native Americans, Chinese, the list goes on and on. The only plausible way to explain this is through Natural Selection. If your viewpoint is strictly that God created everything, then explain to me the diversity that exists among the human race. You can't, without accepting what science, ranchers, dog breeders, etc. have shown. Natural Selection.

Paulewog: "Evolution is not Biblical... you don't find evolution in the Bible, you have to twist the Bible to make room for it."
- Again, I challenge you to explain the many physical differences that exists among the various ethnic cultures without accepting the scientific proof that all living things evolve.


Thirdly, the bible is full of symbology, and I'll state that it shouldn't be taken literally. (another thread I intend on starting soon), so If you wish to contradict my statement (I encourage it actually) we'll take it to another thread.

Scott, you state:
"....And no evolution has ever been observed or demonstrated...."
-Okay, then please explain the following to me:
1. Hybrids
2. Selective reproduction (commonly used by animal breeders)
3. Extinction due to random and induced events.
4. Neanderthals....where did they come from, why did they become extinct?
(Just a few examples of evolution, which can be shown)....

"The modern science of genetics which Darwin did not have shows the foolishness of the notion of evolution. "
-Science didn't freeze with Darwin, as just as it didn't with Newton or Einstein. This statement just indicates you have been misinformed on what Darwin hypothesized and what science has shown since then. Scienctific knowledge INCREASES...theories & laws have been re-written whenever necessary.

"The Bible is clearly young earth non evolution in its presentation."
-I'd LOVE to discuss this one with you. Please take advantage of my post on "Young Earth Creation" and state your case. (the young earth notion)

"You can certainly chose to reject the Bible if you want, but don't try to make it say that everything evolved."
- That is not what I'm saying, and I certainly don't reject the Bible. Are you trying to tell me the bible should be taken literally? If so, let's take that one to another thread as well.

Thank you!

your comments are much appreciated,and I agree with you!

peace and blessings
assalmu alaikum
shalom aleykom
 
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Originally posted by Gerry
I have just read through this thread. Ya know what? This thread has nothing at all to do with evolution. What this thread is about is how do you view the Bible.

If you believe in a Literal interpretation of the Bible, there is no room for evolution, or even Theistic Evolution.

If on the other hand you reject a literal interpretation of the Bible there is plenty of room for evolution.

Since that issue is not even being addressed directly, no minds will be changed. Why not move on to a thread and discuss why you accept or reject a literal interpretation of the Bible?

For the record, I personally go with the Literal interpretation. Otherwise it is too complicated deciding what is literal and what is figurative. But to me the important thing is what you think of Jesus, and whether He was literal and what He did was literal. If we can agree on Jesus, I could care less if you believe in Theisitc Evolution or not.

The question was: "Isn't Evolution Biblical?" The answer is: Depends on whether you accept or reject a literal interpretation of the Bible.

I disagree! This thread is totally about evolution and people have answered BASED on theiir Bible interpretations.How do I know for sure? B/C I started the thread!You are right that it is hard to decide what is literal and figurative in the Bible, but a literal interpretation STILL shows that evolution is FACT. YOU HAVE TRIED TO MAKE THIS THREAD ABOUT THEISTIC EVOLUTION AND THE LITERAL INTERPRETATION OF JESUS AND THE BIBLE, but it is not so. Theists seem to have this *fear* that if evolution is true, G-D and the Bible are not. :confused:

peace and blessings
assalamu alaikum
shalom aleykom
 
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1.Does the Earth consist of one homogenous environment?

Obviously not, if one hasever traveled.

ANSAR: TRUE

2. Are human beings clones of each other?

DOH! No.

ANSAR:TRUE

3. If we are not clones of each other, then how can descent with modification and genetic recombination NOT be seen as CHANGES OVER TIME?

You mean like my son being 3" taller than me? (You do realize you're using logic to combat illogic, don't you?)

ANSAR:I DON'T REALLY KNOW WHAT YOU MEAN BUT I SAY THAT IF DESCENT WITH MODIFICATION AND NATURAL SELECTION AND GENETIC RECOMBINATION IS TRUE, THE WHAT IS OCCURING IS CHANGE OVER TIME. THIS IS THE DEFINITION OF EVOLUTION.DO YOU DENY THIS?

4.why is it in the Hebrew Bible, two different words are used for mankind's spirit in the Genesis account?

Why are there two words for God? Elohim and YHWH? (And isn't Elohim technically plural?) Could it be there were two writers between Gen 1 & Gen 2?

ANSAR:GENESIS DOES HAVE MULTIPLE WRITERS AND EDITORS BUT THAT IS NOT THE POINT.EL,ELOHIM AND YHVH ARE USED B/C THEY ARE DIFFERENT BEINGS.YHVH IS AN ELOHIM.EL IS THE ONE G-D.YHVH IS NOT.NONE OF THESE IS THE PERSONAL NAME OF G-D,BUT EL(ALLAH) IS THE NAME GIVEN HIM.NEFESH AND NESHAMA,AS SINAI WILL TELL YOU DESCRIBE TWO DIFFERENT STATES OF BEING.NESHAMA DESCRIBES A SENTIENT BEING!IF MAN WAS INFUSED WITH NEFESH AND THEN THE LAMED IN HEBREW ADDED TO NESHAMA IS USED, EVOLUTION HAS OCCURED.MANKIND'S NATURE HAS CHANGED!PLAIN AND SIMPLE.

5. Is it not LIKELY that Adam was the first sentient MAN, and that other MEN existed before that were not sentient?

Like Neanderthals? And not even going there, but where did the people come from who Cain hooked up with after he was expelled from Eden? If Adam was the first man, Cain and Abel were the first (and only) children, what happened?

ANSAR:THE BIBLE COULD HAVE EASILY LEFT OUT MANY GENERATIONS.DO WE KNOW HOW MANY CHILDREN ADAM HAD WITH EVE?DO WE KNOW THAT ADMA DID NOT MATE WITH HIS DAUGHTERS AND GRANDCHILDREN?HOW DO WE KNOW HOW MANY PEOPLE EXISTED ON EARTH WHEN CAIN WAS EXPELLED?THERE IS A TIME GAP IN THE GENESIS ACCOUMT.IT IS ALSO TOTALLY POSSIBLE THAT CAIN MATED WITH THE OTHER HUMANS THAT ONLY HAD NEFESH AND NOT NESHAMA.IN FACT ANTHROPOLOGISTS ARE DEBATING THIS RIGHT NOW.DID MODERN HUMANS INTERMIX WITH ARCHAIC HUMAN POPULATIONS OR DID THE ARCHAIC HUMAS DIE OUT WITHOUT CONTRIBUTING GENETICALLY TO OUR GENE POOL?

6. Is not the idea that there was no death before Adam and Eve pure interpolation? The bible says that the consequences of sin is death. This does not mean that death did not occur before. It also means that, by sin, death entered MANKIND'S existence, NOT that death never existed before.

Again, that logic problem rears its ugly head. I would say though, that through sin we separated ourselves from God, and have been trying ever since to get back home.

ANSAR:HOW DO YOU SEPARATE YOURSELF FROM A BEING THAT IS OMNIPRESENT?CAN WE SAY LOGICAL CONTRADICTION?

7.Is it not possible that after obtaining sentience, and then knowledge of good and evil, Mankind had no excuse for sin, and the punishment for sin while you know is eternal death.

We still have no excuse for sin, except fear. What do we fear anyhow?

ANSAR:I FEAR NOTHING,BUT YOU ARE MISSING THE POINT.WILL G-D PUNISH THOSE FOR DOING THINGS WHEN HE KNOWS THAT THEY ARE UNAWARE THAT WHAT THEY DO IS SIN?OR DOES THE LAW OF SIN=DEATH ALWAYS APPLY.IF SO,IS THIS MERCIFUL?IS IT JUST?

8.If there was no death before Adam, then what did the animals eat? How could the plants not oversaturate the air with C02, IF THEY DID NOT DIE?

(shaking head)

ANSAR:WHY SHAKE YOUR HEAD?IT IS A LEGITIMATE CONCERN.IF PLANTS DON'T DIE, THEN THE CYCLE OF C02 RELEASE AND ABSORPTION WILL NOT ONLY RAISE THE TEMPERATURE OF THE EARTH, BUT KILL ALL LIVING THINGS.WHAT DID THE ANIMALS EAT?IF THEY WERE HERBIVORES THAEN THE PLANTS EXPERIENCED DEATH AND DEATH DID EXIST BEFORE HUMAN SIN, DID IT NOT. :confused:

9.I urge all creationists, muslim and christian and jew to resolve the idea that the Bible BOTH says that the WORLD was created in six days, and that a day with g-d is like 10,000 YEARS AND SO ON. MIND YOU, I DO NOT THINK THAT BIBLE GIVES AN ACCURATE ACCOUNT OF EVOLUTION OR THAT THE BIBLE ITSELF IS CORRECT IN EVERYTHING, BUT THE BIBLE DOES SEEM TO SPEAK OF IT'S OWN THEORY OF EVOLUTION.

Such heresy! Ok, sorry for the sarcasm, but you're arguing with people who can't see the forest for the trees. You and Bear and others can see the Bible as the book of wisdom that it is, and don't have to believe in its perfection to believe in its lesson. It's not God's perfect word or else God is very imperfect. It is God's word in the fact that the lessons are always right. Those who live lives of faith and Love connect with God, those who don't separate themselves further from God.

ANSAR:MAYBE.I THINK IF IT(THE BIBLE) IS G-D'S WORD, THEN IT SHOULD BE PERFECT.WOULD YOU NOT AGREE?SEEING THE BIBLE AS A BOOK OF WISDOM DOES NOT MEAN I TAKE IT FOR G-D'S WORDS.

A perfect God doesn't need a perfect Bible, just faith the size of a mustard seed

ANSAR:THIS IS WRONG!A PERFECT BEING INDEED REVEALS A PERFECT WORD

P.S.NOT YELLING AT YOU JUST DIFFERENTIATING BETWEEN MY WORDS AND YOURS IN THE POST.

PEACE AND BLESSINGS
 
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Originally posted by Hank
I think I am a free thinker.

Part of evolution which is proven, this proven part is very much limited. I simply don't accept different species evolving from common ancestors. The reason is very simple. Every living creature is composed of view basic elements. Thus it is inevitable to think we are all evolved from this gene pool.
When I look, on how those parts work and function, I see thought not [u[struggle[/u], thus I clink to the idea of being created and not having evolved. Because of that, I also think abiogenesis can never be proven. It requires full trust in that living things can act within to broaden their existence. In essence that what abiogenesis is to me.

As for the Bible proving evolution, I can take the Bible and prove anything I wish.

human beings being created by g-d IS abiogenesis.We were created from nothing.You have committed a logical error.Being created and evolving are not mutually exclusive,they have both occurred.

peace and blessings
assalamu alaikum
shalom aleykom
 
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Originally posted by Hank
I disagree.
Matter acts on space-time. Space-time on matter. Bees and flowers, ant colonies, your daily bread.
Unless you traveled outside this universe, you are an integral part of the universe. You depend every second of your life on it being homogenous. - If the exact balance of the electric charge between protons and electrons would stop you are no more. Etc.

Once again, this is sophistry. The universe being homogenous and the universe being stable are not the same things.The universe itself is neither homogenous or unstable. It's laws are not even conclusively homogenous.The universe is stable in its instability.All of this does not take away from the fact that the earth has different environments.Different environments cause differing adaptations.Beings that are different MUST have changed if they have a common origin.

peace and blessings
assalamu alaikum
shalom aleykom
 
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