Antagonistic relationship between Islam and Christianity

hey snowbunny!

i don't personally hate muslims. in fact, i have two really good friends of mine who are muslim.

however, i just think my problem with islam is that i just don't think it belongs in our Western culture. and i'm not trying to be rude here.. i'm just being honest. i don't think islam should have any place in our western society.

when people think of the West, they think of tolerance. they think of safety. they think of equality. and yes, there are some hardcore Christians out there, and some hardcore Jews here and there.. but they never make so much racket as muslims do, and don't make such a huge effect as muslims do. i guess it's because they have been here forever, and even if they are radical Christians, they still share some of our Western Liberal values!

but whenever i see islam.. it's just totally different. i mean look at how things are going in the UK.. in manchester there are signs that say "look out uk, shariah is on its way!" and then it has a sword showing. and this is public! and its got support of many.

i hate to sound mean, but i really and truly don't feel safe around muslims. like when i was in morocco, i just felt scared here and there. and i don't know why, especially as morocco is a nice country. and in saudi arabia.. if i would even GLANCE at a girl, the police would all yell at me for no reason!


and i'm a member of several forums. li islamic is one of them. i remember that you used to be there lol. anyways, and just some of the posts that people make there are SO disturbing. and this is one of the liberal muslim boards!

like one person made a post about the bombings of the mosque in india. and so one of the members was saying how the muslims will get revenge and kill hindu's in pakistan. and peole were responding happily to that. they were like "inshallah bro, i hope ur right" and i just couldn't believe what i was hearing.

and then in the arabic forum.. they don't think we speak arabic, but google has arabic translation now! so there was(and still is) this thread abut the US n there. and it is just so disturbing what i read when i used the translator. the person showed US troops dead, like literally dead troops, and said "this is Gods wrath on you" and then it showed troops crying, and it said "they will weep many, and laugh little. praise God!" and it was just EXTREMELY disturbing. and i just couldn't believe what i read. and the responses were just whoa.. everyone was showing happy faces, and i just couldn't believe my eyes.

so someone asked for it to be translated.. the arabic translator on google isn't the best, but you can still understand what it means. so i translated it. and then the mods delete my posts and give me a warning, for translating it. so they get ME in trouble for doing such, yet they don't get the person who started it. and in the US it's illegal to mock dead US troops. like you can say "thank God for dead soldiers" but you can't show a picture and make fun. and the member did that. and i told the mods that it was illegal, and threatened to report them. and they totally ignored it.

i joined li islamic forum because i wanted to change my views of islam. i HATE having grudges on people.. HATE it. but ever since i joined, i have actually gotten an even more NEGATIVE view of islam.

and on islamica, another forum i was on, they were saying how western women should be raped because they don't cover themselves. and i was just horrified. at least the mods could delete it!

i just don't think islam has a place in our society. i'm not trying to be rude. and it's nothing against a muslim as an individual. it's just that i can't stand to see what i see among muslims.

immigrants that come to the US from Mexico might have a bit of a different culture.. but they're still Christian, and they still share much of the liberal values that we have. and almost every non muslim culture seems to share many values. but islamic cultures.. rather it's persian, arab, or even indian.. they are neo conservative, and anti american. and it just shatters me.

Snowbunny said:

lets talk about this. as you have all seen on this forum and in international circles (going back for hundreds of years) there is an antagonistic relationship between islam and christianity that many believe does not have to exist. what do you think are the causes of it?

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Can you explain a little more with regards to what you mean by antagonistic relationship?

Snowbunny said:

muslims what bothers you about christianity that you would find yourself engaged in a hostile argument with a christian?

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Deny of comming to commen terms. Dividing One God into more then One.

Snowbunny said:

what dont you like about each other?

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Refuse to accept that there Only One God without Partners, Self-Sufficient, Master of The Day of Judgement and He Begetts not neither He is Begotten.

Snowbunny said:

i am asking these questions on a personal level and on a larger level... i want to know about the personal conflicts and the historic crimes.

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If you really want to exeriance conflict between Christian and Non-Christians just widen your view on this forum...Most of the Moderators are Christians oops is it All.

What bothers me about Christians?

Hmm... I'd say... morning breath. Definitely!

its not muslims that are the issue
it is muslims who want christians dead because they are christians
or jews dead because they are jews
etc. etc. etc.
(that is to say those that will not convert on pains of death)

kjf512 said:

when people think of the West, they think of tolerance. they think of safety. they think of equality. and yes, there are some hardcore Christians out there, and some hardcore Jews here and there.. but they never make so much racket as muslims do, and don't make such a huge effect as muslims do. i guess it's because they have been here forever, and even if they are radical Christians, they still share some of our Western Liberal values!

but whenever i see islam.. it's just totally different. i mean look at how things are going in the UK.. in manchester there are signs that say "look out uk, shariah is on its way!" and then it has a sword showing. and this is public! and its got support of many.

i hate to sound mean, but i really and truly don't feel safe around muslims. like when i was in morocco, i just felt scared here and there. and i don't know why, especially as morocco is a nice country. and in saudi arabia.. if i would even GLANCE at a girl, the police would all yell at me for no reason!


and i'm a member of several forums. li islamic is one of them. i remember that you used to be there lol. anyways, and just some of the posts that people make there are SO disturbing. and this is one of the liberal muslim boards!

like one person made a post about the bombings of the mosque in india. and so one of the members was saying how the muslims will get revenge and kill hindu's in pakistan. and peole were responding happily to that. they were like "inshallah bro, i hope ur right" and i just couldn't believe what i was hearing.

and then in the arabic forum.. they don't think we speak arabic, but google has arabic translation now! so there was(and still is) this thread abut the US n there. and it is just so disturbing what i read when i used the translator. the person showed US troops dead, like literally dead troops, and said "this is Gods wrath on you" and then it showed troops crying, and it said "they will weep many, and laugh little. praise God!" and it was just EXTREMELY disturbing. and i just couldn't believe what i read. and the responses were just whoa.. everyone was showing happy faces, and i just couldn't believe my eyes.

so someone asked for it to be translated.. the arabic translator on google isn't the best, but you can still understand what it means. so i translated it. and then the mods delete my posts and give me a warning, for translating it. so they get ME in trouble for doing such, yet they don't get the person who started it. and in the US it's illegal to mock dead US troops. like you can say "thank God for dead soldiers" but you can't show a picture and make fun. and the member did that. and i told the mods that it was illegal, and threatened to report them. and they totally ignored it.

i joined li islamic forum because i wanted to change my views of islam. i HATE having grudges on people.. HATE it. but ever since i joined, i have actually gotten an even more NEGATIVE view of islam.

and on islamica, another forum i was on, they were saying how western women should be raped because they don't cover themselves. and i was just horrified. at least the mods could delete it!

i just don't think islam has a place in our society. i'm not trying to be rude. and it's nothing against a muslim as an individual. it's just that i can't stand to see what i see among muslims.

immigrants that come to the US from Mexico might have a bit of a different culture.. but they're still Christian, and they still share much of the liberal values that we have. and almost every non muslim culture seems to share many values. but islamic cultures.. rather it's persian, arab, or even indian.. they are neo conservative, and anti american. and it just shatters me.

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I think that a lot of what you wrote about isn't entirely due to Islam or muslims, per se, but moreso due to political views and various cultures.

I am a member of an islamic board and have seen the same things you describe. I think you have to look at the source and 9 times out of 10 the person posting these heinous pictures or words have actually been affected by either the war in Afghanistan or the war in Iraq, OR they live in a country where anti-US propoganda is prevalent.

The only thing that has to do with Islam or being muslim is pure geographical luck (or bad luck I guess).

The muslims that I know who were born and raised in the US, as I was, either have no political stance whatsoever since they're so busy with their own lives, as are most Americans, or they do have a stance but obviously aren't violent in their expressions since that goes against the very core of what we believe in.

I think it is very common for people to use East vs. West when talking about muslims, as though there aren't any here in the US, but the fact of the matter is that muslims are very well integrated in today's society all over the world.

As to the OP, I don't have a problem with Christians. I used to be one myself and most of my family are Catholic. Back in the days of the prophet Mohammed, Christians, Jews and Muslims actually lived all together in peace at one point or another.

I just think the problems come about when politics become involved, but that doesn't affect 100% of muslims...it just affects the ones that are involved where the conflicts are.

wow i guess i´ll have to check some islamic forum out.
islam is growing and getting more lobby and agenda in germany.
germany has dead state churches, the spirit is only to be found in smaller church movements. i guess islam will get stronger and stronger in the next years and people watch and sit idly by wallowing in materialism humanism and "chacun a son gout". just like it says on robby williams´s chest tattoo. that´s exactly what it says in the last verse of the book of judges.

bostonlass said:

I think that a lot of what you wrote about isn't entirely due to Islam or muslims, per se, but moreso due to political views and various cultures.

I am a member of an islamic board and have seen the same things you describe. I think you have to look at the source and 9 times out of 10 the person posting these heinous pictures or words have actually been affected by either the war in Afghanistan or the war in Iraq, OR they live in a country where anti-US propoganda is prevalent.

The only thing that has to do with Islam or being muslim is pure geographical luck (or bad luck I guess).

The muslims that I know who were born and raised in the US, as I was, either have no political stance whatsoever since they're so busy with their own lives, as are most Americans, or they do have a stance but obviously aren't violent in their expressions since that goes against the very core of what we believe in.

I think it is very common for people to use East vs. West when talking about muslims, as though there aren't any here in the US, but the fact of the matter is that muslims are very well integrated in today's society all over the world.

As to the OP, I don't have a problem with Christians. I used to be one myself and most of my family are Catholic. Back in the days of the prophet Mohammed, Christians, Jews and Muslims actually lived all together in peace at one point or another.

I just think the problems come about when politics become involved, but that doesn't affect 100% of muslims...it just affects the ones that are involved where the conflicts are.

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thanks for the reply, and that's definetely nice to know

although to be quite honest, most of the converts to islam seem more conservative then the born muslims, and seem to be the ones that want homosexuals killed, and women downgraded. hah, many arabs in america are very modern.. i honestly think that like the palestinian arabs here in the US are some of the most fashionably people(the guys at least lol)

i just think that islam needs to quit being so freaking arab culture. don't get me wrong.. arab culture isn't totally bad. very hospitable. but it's very close minded, and very secretive. and it sickens me! i wish that muslims were more like malaysian muslims.. those who have their own culture, their own food, and all that, yet are still muslim. but i think that many of the converts from America and Europe seem to be conservative and act more arabic.. many guys start wearing those ugly white robes.. it scares me lol.

who knows.maybe i just fear the unknown. maybe i just spend too much time online, and see what people online say, and now how they would person to person. i think many people are more honest on the computer, because we're behind a computer screen! and many of us obviously over eggaterate.

hopefully a liberal form of islam will take form. there is one denomination that's ultra liberal that a dude i know is in.. but he said that his denomination isn't even considered islam to some because it's so liberal. so who knows.

i would suggest the following authors for a better understanding of islam

Walid Shoebat
Dr. Ergun Caner
Abdul Saleeb
Ibn Wariq
William Federer - what every american needs to know about the koran
Michael Steyn - America alone (which speaks to bluemarkus response 2 posts back)

dimwhitt said:

i would suggest the following authors for a better understanding of islam

Walid Shoebat
Dr. Ergun Caner
Abdul Saleeb
Ibn Wariq
William Federer - what every american needs to know about the koran
Michael Steyn - America alone (which speaks to bluemarkus response 2 posts back)

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As I would suggest the following authors for a more balanced understanding of Islam.

Jeffrey Lang
Martin Lings
Muhammad Asad (Leopold Weiss)
Yahiya Emerick
Tariq Ramadan
Karen Armstrong
John Esposito
Hamza Yusuf

To name a few.

Snowbunny said:

lets talk about this. as you have all seen on this forum and in international circles (going back for hundreds of years) there is an antagonistic relationship between islam and christianity that many believe does not have to exist. what do you think are the causes of it?

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Well, once upon a time there was a jihad maniac named Omar ibn Al-Khattab. He was the 2nd Caliph. The spread of Islam was, during his reign, stopped by the Persian and Byzantine Empires, which had tried to stop Islam with force, having made it very clear that Islam was not welcome into their lands. Yet, trying to stop Islam was not ok with Omar, so the early Muslims invaded, engaging and defeating both great powers, conquering Persia and most of the Byzantine Empire.

The Christian world went oh noes teh evil saracens r out to get us. Unfortunately, the repeated necessity to fight for its existence made the Ummah develop something of an "us against the world" mindset.

dimwhitt said:

i would suggest the following authors for a better understanding of islam

Walid Shoebat
Dr. Ergun Caner
Abdul Saleeb
Ibn Wariq
William Federer - what every american needs to know about the koran
Michael Steyn - America alone (which speaks to bluemarkus response 2 posts back)

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I'd like to add one book to this list.

"Lunch with God" by Steve Hershey

Here's a quote from it:

"God is going to say that he wants the fighting to stop. He will also tell everyone that He is the only God, and that everyone, regardless of their religion, has had their prayers received by Him. Then, He will chastise humanity for fighting over the differences in organized religion. He will claim that He has sent His son to earth many times, and though His son has been know by many names, Jesus, Muhammad, Buddha, Abraham, and so on, it has always been His son."​

DeanM said:

I'd like to add one book to this list.

"Lunch with God" by Steve Hershey

Here's a quote from it:

"God is going to say that he wants the fighting to stop. He will also tell everyone that He is the only God, and that everyone, regardless of their religion, has had their prayers received by Him. Then, He will chastise humanity for fighting over the differences in organized religion. He will claim that He has sent His son to earth many times, and though His son has been know by many names, Jesus, Muhammad, Buddha, Abraham, and so on, it has always been His son."​

After reading this book, I really believe it. The differences in our religions are no cause for war. The causes are greed and revenge. I post this clip with a warning, that it occurs in a very specific context within the book, and should not be taken the wrong way by anyone who has not read the book in its entirity.​

God Bless​

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Yep, sounds familiar...

- Art

just an example of a few radical statements i found on a muslim board today.. actually the FIRST topic i saw when i visited today.

As for the troops in Iraq, not only that is free speech but also correct to say. I say it and do pray they all come back in bodybags or don't come back at all. Why? becuase they are the enemies, they are occupying a muslim land and they have been massacring innocents there. No one wants them there, they were sent there on faulty intelligence and this war is illegal by international law. And even my religion gives me the right to hate and pray against those that are the enemies and islam make it incumbant upon us to do jihad and fight against those who invadee our lands, violate our proptery, our honor and oppress us.

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I pray for that too.

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Mashallah brother we all agree

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So whether you're disturbed or not, the fact remains. Those that invade and occupy Muslim lands and fight Muslims (war on islam) are clear enemies of Islam.

Allah declares in the Qur'an:​

• "To those against whom war is made, permission is given (to defend themselves), because they are wronged - and verily, Allah is Most Powerful to give them victory - (they are) those who have been expelled from their homes in defiance of right - (for no cause) except that they say, 'Our Lord is Allah'.... " 22:39-40​

The Qur'an permits fighting to defend the religion of Islam and the Muslims. This permission includes fighting in self defense and for the protection of family and property. The early Muslims fought many battles against their enemies under the leadership of the Prophet Muhammad(S) or his representatives. For example, when the pagans of Quraysh brought armies against Prophet Muhammad(S), the Muslims fought to defend their faith and community. The Qur'an adds:​

• "Fight in the cause of Allah against those who fight against you, but do not transgress limits. Lo! Allah loves not aggressors. ... And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for Allah. But if they desist, then let there be no hostility except against transgressors." 2:190,193​

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• ​

Yvone riddley said once "Have you ever heard a woman being moderately pregenant? she either is pregnant or not. Same is with a muslim, you either are a muslims or you're not".

and I think her statement makes sense a lot.

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hopefully that might give you an idea of why i am so critical of muslims.

it's ok not to support the war in iraq. no one should support it! but to pray that all our troops come home in bodybags is just gross.

Janissary said:

The Christian world went oh noes teh evil saracens r out to get us. Unfortunately, the repeated necessity to fight for its existence made the Ummah develop something of an "us against the world" mindset.

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Was that fighting for your existence when you invaded Byzantium, or when you conquered Constantinople. Maybe it was when you were besieging Vienna. Perhaps it was when you occupied Spain for 700 years. Or then again, maybe it was earlier it was when you conquered all of North Africa.

You Muslims with your persecution complex are such a joke. You are just getting back now what you dished out to Europe for 1300 years.

This world will not have peace until Islam is relegated to the dustbin of past history.

today i joined my parents and smaller siblings on a trip to a museum and a multicultural event. yes with a strong muslim touch again. it was nice music that they played on these weird guitars with a big bowl with only some strings on it. that sounds like you´re in morocco or something.

even if islam is a trojan horse for germany, my people deserve the muslim lower class gaining force because germany has become so complacent and weak.

Secundulus said:

Was that fighting for your existence when you invaded Byzantium, or when you conquered Constantinople. Maybe it was when you were besieging Vienna. Perhaps it was when you occupied Spain for 700 years. Or then again, maybe it was earlier it was when you conquered all of North Africa.

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Byzantium is a rogue state, and so is any state trying to prevent the spread of the Prophet's word. Oh yes, the Byzantine invaded Arabia during Muhammed's time.

Secundulus said:

This world will not have peace until Islam is relegated to the dustbin of past history.

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That doesn't sound any less militaristic of you.

Janissary said:

Byzantium is a rogue state, and so is any state trying to prevent the spread of the Prophet's word. Oh yes, the Byzantine invaded Arabia during Muhammed's time.

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Byzantium existed, with Constantinople as its capitol, for 300 years before Muhammed was born.

At least you are an honest Muslim and admit that any non-Islamic state is your enemy. Maybe your honesty will wake up some of the dhimmis.

That doesn't sound any less militaristic of you.

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IN HOC SIGNO VINCES