Modern Israel Not a Prophetic Sign

On this, we agree.

In Christ,

Acts6:5

Just The Facts said:

Hi

There is this doctrine that in 1948 the clock started ticking.

The doctrine then was that this generation would not pass before Jesus return.

Those who espoused this doctrine said a Generation was 20 years.

Well 1968 went by and they said well ok well I meant 20-30 years.

So 1978 went by ..........Ok a generation is 40 years.......................opppps 50 years...............................oppps 60 years......................and wouldn't you know it here comes 2008

So get ready for the big ooooppppsss again.

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Matthew 34:24
Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

This verse does not say all these things will happen in a generation.
This verse says that this generation shall not pass (die)
till all things be fulfilled. Those alive when Israel became a nation in 1948 or those that were alive when Jerusalem became part of Israel in 1968, which ever is correct will still be alive when all these things are fulfilled.

Just The Facts said:

Hi Garry

What was taught was that the generation that saw israel formed as a Nation would see jesus return.

Wel I hate to be the one to tell you that generation has come and gone.

The average age of an Israelis in 1986 was 25.4 years.

the State was formed 60 years ago. right now less then 5% of the population was even alive when Israel was formed.

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Hullo
People continue to die, not all that were alive in 1948 or 1968 whatever, will be alive when all is fulfilled. But some will because Matthew 34:24 says so.

That Generation was to do with Jerusalem.
LUKE 21

20 "But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then recognize that her desolation is near.
21 "Then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains, and those who are in the midst of the[13][Lit her ] city must leave, and those who are in the country must not enter the city;
22 because these are days of vengeance, so that all things which are written will be fulfilled.
23 "Woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days; for there will be great distress upon the land and wrath to this people;
24 and they will fall by the edge of the sword, and will be led captive into all the nations; and Jerusalem will be trampled under foot by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.

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31 "So you also, when you see these things happening, recognize that the kingdom of God is near.
32 "Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all things take place.
33 "Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will not pass away.

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In every instance in the New Testament, the phrase "this generation" means the generation to whom Jesus was speaking in his day.

Using that same phrase to do some calculation related to 1948 is without warrant.

Just The Facts said:

Hi

There is this doctrine that in 1948 the clock started ticking.

The doctrine then was that this generation would not pass before Jesus return.

Those who espoused this doctrine said a Generation was 20 years.

Well 1968 went by and they said well ok well I meant 20-30 years.

So 1978 went by ..........Ok a generation is 40 years.......................opppps 50 years...............................oppps 60 years......................and wouldn't you know it here comes 2008

So get ready for the big ooooppppsss again.

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I think it can be argued a biblical generation is 40 years. A generation means the time it takes for a person to have children of their own and NOT life span .
So the rapture occured in 1988 and we have been left behind.

WITHIN a generation of him saying this the temple was destroyed.

But he mentions the times of the gentiles over JERUSALEM would come to an end, and here we may have a prophetic word.

He continues by saying-When you see these things, which includes Jerusalem-and the gentile time being over, then this Gen would not pass---Heaven and earth will, but my words wont.

1967 it became Jewish again.

The "Times of the gentiles," just like Daniel's "time, times, and a half time" (i.e., 3.5 years), is a very short period where gentile armies tread under foot their enemies. Compare these similar examples found throughout scripture:

The "times of the gentiles treading Jerusalem under foot with armies and swords, in its desolation, was a mere 3.5 year period (66-70AD).

How do we define this trampling under foot by gentiles as ending?

It suggests they are led captive to all the nations...and then it would be trampled by Gentiles, because they are led away.

But this would end, and i take this to mean that its because they are led back and Jerusalem comes into the hands of the jews again.
Joel 2 and 3
The Promise of the Spirit
28 "It will come about after this
That I will pour out My Spirit on all mankind;
And your sons and daughters will prophesy,
Your old men will dream dreams,
Your young men will see visions.
29 "Even on the male and female servants
I will pour out My Spirit in those days.


The Day of the LORD
30 "I will display wonders in the sky and on the earth,
Blood, fire and columns of smoke.
31 "The sun will be turned into darkness
And the moon into blood
Before the great and awesome day of the LORD comes.
32 "And it will come about that whoever calls on the name of the LORD
Will be delivered;
For on Mount Zion and in Jerusalem
There will be those who escape,
As the LORD has said,
Even among the survivors whom the LORD calls.
1 "For behold, in those days and at that time,
When I restore the fortunes of Judah and Jerusalem,
2 I will gather all the nations
And bring them down to the valley of Jehoshaphat.
Then I will enter into judgment with them there
On behalf of My people and My inheritance, Israel,
Whom they have scattered among the nations;
And they have divided up My land.

As we see elsewhere in scripture, armies trod down a city for a short period of time. Even the word "times" in Luke 21:24 is used by Daniel to mean a few years.

So, the "times" of the gentiles trodding down Jersalem was short, such as with the Babylonian conquest and the later Roman conquest.

Na that is taking the words and exchanging it

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Dont understand..
He told those around him to flee, and the church did.
The prophecy of Jesus comes true when they are dispersed--(the days of vengeance)--to all nations--The church is commisioned to go into all the world also and then comes the end.

So they thought of themselves as carrying on the work, even when Jerusalem fell, they were told to get out. and go into all the world.

He promises to restore them according to the prophets.
He says that they will be dispersed and these will be the days of vengeance that all written will be forefilled.

What i see written is things like Joel 3, and jerusalem being a burdensome stone.And God bringing his people back and restore their fortunes.

Its burdonsome because it is Jewish again, and we see what fruit it has produced since they been back.

This is the appointed time of the end for sure.

GW said:

The "Times of the gentiles," just like Daniel's "time, times, and a half time" (i.e., 3.5 years), is a very short period where gentile armies tread under foot their enemies. Compare these similar examples found throughout scripture:

-COMPARE THE LANGUAGE OF THIS VERSE-​

Luke 21:24​

they will fall by the edge of the sword...Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.​

-TO THE SIMILAR LANGUAGE USED IN THESE VERSES-​

Daniel 12:7​

it shall be for a time, times, and an half [time]...he shall have accomplished to shatter the power of the holy people​

Revelation 11:2​

The court which is outside the temple...is given unto the Gentiles, and the holy city they shall tread under foot forty and two months.​

Daniel 8:13-14​

How long is this vision concerning...the transgression that makes desolate, and the giving over of the sanctuary and host to be trodden under foot?" And he answered him, For two thousand three hundred evenings and mornings​

Ezekiel 26:11​

"With the hoofs of his horses he will trample all your streets. He will slay your people with the sword​

Isaiah 63:18​

Your holy people possessed Your sanctuary for a little while, Our adversaries have trodden it down.​

Judges 20:43-48​

They surrounded Benjamin...and trod them down opposite Gibeah toward the east. Thus 18,000 men of Benjamin fell; all these were valiant warriors...So all of Benjamin who fell that day were 25,000 men who draw the sword...The men of Israel then turned back against the sons of Benjamin and struck them with the edge of the sword​

The "times of the gentiles treading Jerusalem under foot with armies and swords, in its desolation, was a mere 3.5 year period (66-70AD).

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The court of the Gentiles could be interpreted as tread under foot a little differently, being more consistant with Daniel's years, months, days:
The Dome of the Rock was actually built on the wrong rock and covers the Gentile court instead of the Holy of Holies which fulfills another prophecy in Revelations:
11:2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

688AD is the date the building of the Dome of the Rock started and spans 42 months = 1278.34 days. 1967AD - 1278.34 days = 688.66AD.
It could be speculated that 1967AD is the time of the fullness of Gentiles or when the Six Day war resulted in the first time the Jews had control of Jerusalem in 2,573 yrs, but as we see today, they control little. I see the math of the months as variable, though, as we have seen time change from Hebrew to Greek - making accuracy calculating between these long periods of time difficult to calculate.

Luke 21:21-24 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.
22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.
23 But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.
24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

"And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled."


That line speaks of the time, times, and half time during which Jerusalem was trodden down by the Romans -- AD 67-70.

GW said:

"And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled."


That line speaks of the time, times, and half time during which Jerusalem was trodden down by the Romans -- AD 67-70.

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Hi, GW,
I think history can repeat this drama of ages as if rehearsing for the final great end which brings the time of refreshing and restoration to earth - where earth rests. The Roman event certainly plays a part, but surely it should not hide anything abut the end,but rather shede light on it.

jeffweeder said:

WITHIN a generation of him saying this the temple was destroyed.

But he mentions the times of the gentiles over JERUSALEM would come to an end, and here we may have a prophetic word.

He continues by saying-When you see these things, which includes Jerusalem-and the gentile time being over, then this Gen would not pass---Heaven and earth will, but my words wont.

1967 it became Jewish again.

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And the 40 year generation is ended this year! In fact, this week!

In context (signs of the end) the verse says the generation thats living at the time the things spoken of first start coming to pass , that - THAT generation of people shall not pass away (die) untill all things have been fulfilled. When you see that each person who was living on may 15 1948 when Israel (the only ancient nation in existance to regain nationality) became a nation again dies (fulfilling many prophecies about the end times and promises of God) , THEN you can complain that it didnt happen and it was not a prophecy. Christ said that no one would know the date but that we were to watch the seasons and signs. We dont know when the last person living in 1948 will die off.

Reguardless though we should always be ready because we know not what hour in which He will return. If i am wrong about my interpretation then i would be wrong , it wouldnt make God or the bible wrong - it would mean my interpretation of whats written is wrong but we wont know that untill at least about 2018 guessing that the average lifespan is 70 years.

The following would also be stated at the time near the end:

2 Peter 3
1. Beloved, I now write to you this second epistle (in both of which I stir up your pure minds by way of reminder),
2. that you may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Savior, 3. knowing this first: that scoffers will come in the last days, walking according to their own lusts,
4. and saying, "Where is the promise of His coming? For since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of creation.''
5. For this they willfully forget: that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of water and in the water,
6. by which the world that then existed perished, being flooded with water.
7. But the heavens and the earth which now exist are kept in store by the same word, reserved for fire until the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
8. But, beloved, do not forget this one thing, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
9. The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.
10. But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up.
11. Therefore, since all these things will be dissolved, what manner of persons ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness,
12. looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be dissolved being on fire, and the elements will melt with fervent heat?
13. Nevertheless we, according to His promise, look for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells.
14. Therefore, beloved, looking forward to these things, be diligent to be found by Him in peace, without spot and blameless;
15. and account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, has written to you,
16. as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which those who are untaught and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures.
17. You therefore, beloved, since you know these things beforehand, beware lest you also fall from your own steadfastness, being led away with the error of the wicked;
18. but grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To Him be the glory both now and forever. Amen.