Ezekiel 37 & 38 and Revelation 20

Just The Facts · Jun 6, 2007

Hi

Ezekiel 37 & 38 and Revelation 20 are the same events.

Rev 20 is the short form of Ezekiel 37 and 38.

Let’s take a look

Rev 20:4: And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

There is the first resurrection in Rev 20 and Holy Jerusalem out of Heaven…..Now as we all know this is after Armageddon. WHICH IS NOT the battle of Gog and Magog

Below is the first resurrection in Ezekiel 37:

Ezekiel 37: 12: Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel. 13: And ye shall know that I am the LORD, when I have opened your graves, O my people, and brought you up out of your graves, 14: And shall put my spirit in you, and ye shall live, and I shall place you in your own land: then shall ye know that I the LORD have spoken it, and performed it, saith the LORD

Ezekiel 37:26: Moreover I will make a covenant of peace with them; it shall be an everlasting covenant with them: and I will place them, and multiply them, and will set my sanctuary in the midst of them for evermore.27: My tabernacle also shall be with them: yea, I will be their God, and they shall be my people. 28: And the heathen shall know that I the LORD do sanctify Israel, when my sanctuary shall be in the midst of them for evermore.

These verses are clearly the First resurrection and as we move through these parallel chapters of Revelation and Ezekiel you will see there can be no doubt they are the same events.

Rev 20: 6: Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

So what we have is those of the first resurrection living in Jerusalem for 1000 years in Peace after Jesus RESTORES the land from the devastation of Armageddon and the plagues of rev chapters 7-16.

Rev 20: 7: And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,8: And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

Now Revelation Tells us that at the end of the 1000 years Gog will gather to come down on the city of the Saints.

So does Ezekiel also this is what happens next

Ezekiel 38: 2: Son of man, set thy face against Gog, the land of Magog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal, and prophesy against him, 3: And say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold I am against thee, O Gog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal:………………………………………….8: After many days thou shalt be visited: in the latter years thou shalt come into the land that is brought back from the sword, and is gathered out of many people, against the mountains of Israel, which have been always waste: but it is brought forth out of the nations, and they shall dwell safely all of them.

Ezekiel above also notes the time spoken of in Revelation where people of all Tribes and Nations are gathered and reign with Jesus in Jerusalem. Directly referring to the area as the land restored from war. Where the people live in Peace…………….that is the 1000 years of peace.

Ezekiel goes on to say this

14: Therefore, son of man, prophesy and say unto Gog, Thus saith the Lord GOD; In that day when my people of Israel dwelleth safely, shalt thou not know it? 15: And thou shalt come from thy place out of the north parts, thou, and many people with thee, all of them riding upon horses, a great company, and a mighty army:

Now some would try and say that no this is just about Israel because it says my people Israel. But Paul is very clear in more than one place ……we become sons of Abraham and Heirs to the promise we become part of Israel as we are grafted into Israel.

Now Revelation 20 States the following

7: And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, 8: And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. 9: And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

Rev 20 Says that fire will come down from Heaven and devour Gog and his armies.

So does Ezekiel also say this same thing…………Of course it does they are the same events.

Ezekiel 38:2: And I will plead against him with pestilence and with blood; and I will rain upon him, and upon his bands, and upon the many people that are with him, an overflowing rain, and great hailstones, fire, and brimstone.

There is a false teaching that the formation of modern Israel is Ezekiel 37 fulfilled. IT IS NOT………….Ezekiel 37 is the First resurrection. What this false belief does that is sooooo dangerous is it makes one expect the wrong prophetic event to happen next.

If a person believes that Ezekiel 37 is being fulfilled in the current gathering of the Jews in modern Israel …………..then by default that person MUST also believe that if nations come against Modern Israel God will destroy them with fire from heaven. This is a give in because the two events are linked in Ezekiel 37 and 38…………..

This is the exact event that the AC will use to deceive the world that he is God. Look at Rev 13:

13: And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men, 14: And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast;

As we can plainly see it is this Great Wonder of Fire from Heaven that deceives mankind into believing he is Jesus returned.

Paul also tells us this Great Wonder will Happen AT HIS Arrival ……………..not after many years of him as a Political leader but at his Arrival.

[9] The coming of the lawless one by the activity of Satan will be with all power and with pretended signs and wonders,

Can you see Satan’s Deception in action………can you see his devious plan to deceive mankind in the works………………….Do not be fooled Ezekiel 37 is the First Resurrection not the gathering of the Jews into modern Israel. Such false Doctrine has been introduced by Demons to lead mankind to destruction and ruin. Do not be fooled

Rafael · Jun 6, 2007

I wonder what else he will bring at his appearing.... thanks for the post...

Micahyah · Jun 7, 2007

yep, its very clear, yet people have been so deceived it is astounding.

Like Eze 37:26-8 people have falsely linked it to Dan 9:27, replacing an act of God with a supposed act of the 'Antichrist'. The end of Eze 37 isn't referring to some peace treaty that brings the antichrist to power, and neither is Dan 9:27 about that either.

Just The Facts · Jun 7, 2007

Hi Micahyah

Yes it is amazing isn't it.. Daniel 9 is another prophecy so misunderstood, There is soo much false doctrine around it it is truely astounding.

Hi Rafael

Well he will bring and mimik everything scripture says Jesus does. He has to in order to convince people he is Jesus returned.

Covenant Heart · Jun 7, 2007

And Then Wonder How Others Could Be So Stupid:

It's always so clear to us. It's right there--in black and white. If it makes you feel better, you can read it in your own Bible.

John's apocalyptic prophecy was circulated as an epistle among the seven, Asian churches to redirect the believer's imaginative response to the world. They lived in a world of symbols. Symbols are very powerful. If you accept the symbol, you accept what they signify.

John wrote to give Christian believers an alternative set of symbols so that they would first see the world from God's perspective, and then live in the world as his people--without conforming to this world by buying into the premises and values of this world.

We are stupid enough to think that if we push the theology of the book of Revelation into the future, that we won't have to face that "Christ OR Caesar" issue. We think that we can avoid the cross of Christ by making an uneasy "Christ AND Caesar" alliance.

Deep in our hearts, we all know that if we receive John's writing as he intended, WE WILL BECOME the martyrs to which his book refers. The fact that we WON'T indicates that we are an unfaithful people who have more in common with the world than with God's kingdom.

A slap on our collective face? Sure! But there you go.

Blessings!
Covenant Heart

zeke37 · Jun 7, 2007

hello,

quickly I will say that I disagree.

chapter 37 is about 2 visions.

the first is speaking of an army of people that are spiritually dead. Ezekiel is told to prophecy to them...what God just showed him.
So, he does and they become spiritually alive. They heard the Word of God and became living. Now they are an army.

This is the elect. This is right BEFORE the trib, the cusp...and represents those that have the seal of God, His protection and a mission. It is not a physical war but a war against heavenly authorities. But now, after they hear the Word, they become a great army. They are the elect, needed in the tribulation.

The second represents the two sticks...being Judah(present day Jews) and Ephraim (Joseph's son(s) representing scattered Israel who are real nations of people, most think is GB). This will not happen in the flesh age, but only after Christ comes back.

This has nothing to do with rapture. And it is accomplished NOT in this age, but after Messiah returns.

The order continues with chapter 38 and 39 which describe the tribulation end time events.

When the 7th trump sounds, the Lord touches down, and the Millennium begins. So, likewise, the elect are sealed in 37, the end time events take place in 38 and 39 and then...

Chapter 40 through 48 are all Millennial chapters. There is so much written here about the 1000 years, more than any other book. The last part of chapter 48, the end of Ezekiel...ends with....God dwelling here. The Lord is there. This ends the age of the Millennium and begins the For Ever After..Paradise right here on earth.

in His service
c

Just The Facts · Jun 7, 2007

Hi Zeke

Quote
he LORD stirred up the spirit of Cyrus king of Persia, that he made a proclamation throughout all his kingdom, and put it also in writing, saying, 2: Thus saith Cyrus king of Persia, The LORD God of heaven hath given me all the kingdoms of the earth; and he hath charged me to build him an house at Jerusalem, which is in Judah.
End Quote

No That is the doctrine that was created in the 1800's that is not what Scripture says.

12: Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel.
13: And ye shall know that I am the LORD, when I have opened your graves, O my people, and brought you up out of your graves,

Gee I wonder if God was trying o make a point he says out of your graves four times in Two verses. NO WHERE does it say it is that they are spiritually dead.

Neither verse has anything to do with rapture.

Notice that FIRST they are brought out of their Graves AND THEN they are brought back to the Land.

The False doctrine that is taught by so many has that reversed saying that first they come back to the land and then GOd gives them his spirit.

SORRY NOT WHAT SCRIPTURE SAYS AT ALL.

Covenant take your Preterist nonsense to the appropriate form.

zeke37 · Jun 7, 2007

Hello Just the facts,

The beginning of 37 states the Ezekiel is "in the spirit of the Lord" which (in this case is a vision, not our physical place or time, nor his). God is using symbology here. Ezekiel being the watchman, and preacher for what God is going to tell him to "tell the people". We learn of Ezekiel's role earlier.

First God says to prophecy to the dry bones....Hear the word of the Lord...Ezekiel is to 'tell' them that. And this is still a vision....and Ezekiel does so. The (spiritually) dead become (spiritually) alive.

and then he is told to Prophecy to the wind....another symbolic meaning. God isn't speaking to the wind, nor to skeletal remains. He is speaking to Ezekiel, who is to tell the people.

once the 'elect' are prophecyed to, they shall have the ruach...spirit....wind...enter them and they shall be spiritually alive. This is not the first resurrection, but the elect being awoken. The first resurrection is detailed in Rev 20, and is at the 7th trump, not before.

The timing of the two sticks being put back together...scattered Israel and Judah, happens after the return of Christ, not in the flesh.

There is no way this can be the first resurrection, for that cannot happen until the 7th trump, when those of us that are alive are changed in the blink of an eye, into His likeness, in incorruptible bodies. The true believers (elect) shall at that time be involved in the first resurrection, with the dead in Christ.

So, I don't see how this can be the first resurrection.

in His service
c

Just The Facts · Jun 8, 2007

[FONT=&quot]Hi Zeke

I am sorry Zeke but you are adding to the word of God it does not say the bones are spiritually made whole at all...................... it says flesh is put on dead bones.

What you are espousing is a theory that was first thought up in the mid 1800's it is not what the text says at all.

But lets say for one second that you are right. THE ORDER IS WRONG

14: And shall put my spirit in you, and ye shall live, and I shall place you in your own land: then shall ye know that I the LORD have spoken it, and performed it, saith the LORD.

First the spirit goes in them so that they live AND THEN they are PLACED in the Land not migrate to the land.

God will reestablish Israel with both houses BY BRINGING PEOPLE OUT OF THEIR GRAVES not by putting people into their graves which is what this man made effort to reestablish Israel has done.

And God is not impressed with the House of Judah that calls itself Israel......................You see the jews have no right to the name Israel they were the Kingdom of Judea jesus was born in Judea The name Israel belongs to the 9 tribes and the Half tribe of Manasseh.

Look at Isahiah 48:

1: Hear ye this, O house of Jacob, which are called by the name of Israel, and are come forth out of the waters of Judah, which swear by the name of the LORD, and make mention of the God of Israel, but not in truth, nor in righteousness.

ALSO NOTICE that

these bones are the whole house of Israel:

Not just the jews and that who is in modern Israel the House of Judah.I agree Ezekiel 37 is all about events AT the seventh trumpet the bones and the two sticks.[/FONT]

Micahyah · Jun 8, 2007

The northern kingdom, house of Isreael (which were the majority of the 12 tribes of Israel) was scattered 130 years prior to the Babylonian captivity of the remaining kingdom, the house of Judah.

The Jews, who were descendents of those who returned from the Babylonian captivity, and after Christ went through the roman diaspora, can never be all of Israel, just a regathering of the house of Judah.

A verse on the scattering of the House of Israel:

And she conceived again and bore a daughter. And God said to him, Call her name No-mercy, for I will no more have mercy on the house of Israel. But I will utterly take them away. But I will have mercy on the house of Judah, and will save them by Jehovah their God, and will not save them by bow, nor by sword, nor by battle, by horses, nor by horsemen. And when she had weaned No-mercy she conceived and bore a son. And He said, Call his name Not-my-people. For you are not My people, and I will not be for you. Yet the number of the sons of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured nor numbered. And it shall be, in the place where it was said to them, You are not My people, there it shall be said to them, You are the sons of the living God. Then the sons of Judah and the sons of Israel shall be gathered together, and shall set over themselves one head, and they shall come up out of the land. For great shall be the day of Jezreel.
(Hos 1:6-11)

Here's a verse representing the 2 removals of Israel from the land:

Jeremiah 50:17 (KJV)
Israel is a scattered sheep; the lions have driven him away: first the king of Assyria [scattering of House of Israel] hath devoured him; and last this Nebuchadrezzar king of Babylon hath broken his bones [captivity of House of Judah].

The redemption and unification of the House of Israel and the House of Judah comes from the new covenant of Christ (not the Holocaust, or any worldy government).

Jeremiah 31:31-36 (KJV)
Behold, the days come, saith YHWH, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: [32] Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith YHWH: [33] But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith YHWH, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. [34] And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know YHWH: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith YHWH; for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
[35] Thus saith YHWH, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; YHWH of hosts is his name: [36] If those ordinances depart from before me, saith YHWH, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever.

For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah: Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord. For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
(Heb 8:8-10)

There is no reestablishment of a unified Israel unless in Christ and the new covenant, which you see in Eze 37 and Rev 20.

zeke37 · Jun 8, 2007

Just The Facts said:
[FONT=&quot]Hi Zeke[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]I am sorry Zeke but you are adding to the word of God it does not say the bones are spiritually made whole at all...................... it says flesh is put on dead bones.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]What you are espousing is a theory that was first thought up in the mid 1800's it is not what the text says at all. [/FONT]

Well, that is not a very nice greeting. I am not adding to the Word, just rightly dividing the Word.

[FONT=&quot]

But lets say for one second that you are right. THE ORDER IS WRONG

[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]14: And shall put my spirit in you, and ye shall live, and I shall place you in your own land: then shall ye know that I the LORD have spoken it, and performed it, saith the LORD. [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]First the spirit goes in them so that they live AND THEN they are PLACED in the Land not migrate to the land.[/FONT]

First of all, the order that I understand is not contrary to the Word. Nor is understanding the spiritual context of the scriptures, just my opinion. I have no idea who started believing what, when in 1800's.

And I agree, first the SPIRIT goes in them (and you say it is not spiritual?) and then they are made alive(spiritually alive), and then placed in their own land (after the 7th trump). Who mentioned migrate?

Their being placed in their Land is not going to be done in the flesh age, but only after the 7th trump, when Christ gathers His from the 4 corners of the world....which (you many know) is when all flesh is turned to spirit bodies...physical-spiritual, incorruptible bodies. These bodies have NO flesh, or bone, or blood, so...

the folks that will be resurrected to life on earth, do not get flesh bodies. It is not their skeletons that get reformed, but their spiritual breath of life body which descends with Christ, or if they are alive in the flesh at the 7th trump, changes to meet them, at that 7th trump.

[FONT=&quot]

God will reestablish Israel with both houses BY BRINGING PEOPLE OUT OF THEIR GRAVES not by putting people into their graves which is what this man made effort to reestablish Israel has done.

[/FONT]

I really don't know what you are referring to...
Israel (all 12 tribes) will be spiritually awakened and God will (after the 7th trump) join the two together...Judah and Israel (scattered/northern so called lost tribes.)

[FONT=&quot]

And God is not impressed with the House of Judah that calls itself Israel......................You see the jews have no right to the name Israel they were the Kingdom of Judea jesus was born in Judea The name Israel belongs to the 9 tribes and the Half tribe of Manasseh.

[/FONT]

There are 12 tribes. not 10 1/2. You have forgotten half of Manasseh and all of Benjamin (who is often forgotten about. They stayed with Judah over the years. If you are going to be mad at Judah for taking the name Israel, do not misplace some of the tribes.

[FONT=&quot]

Look at Isahiah 48:

[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]1: Hear ye this, O house of Jacob, which are called by the name of Israel, and are come forth out of the waters of Judah, which swear by the name of the LORD, and make mention of the God of Israel, but not in truth, nor in righteousness.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]ALSO NOTICE that [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]these bones are the whole house of Israel:[/FONT]

Yes, all 12 tribes

[FONT=&quot]

Not just the jews and that who is in modern Israel the House of Judah.

[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]and Benjamin. And a scattered few from some of the other tribes. Not all were assimilated. Some did return.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]

I agree Ezekiel 37 is all about events AT the seventh trumpet the bones and the two sticks.

[/FONT]

I do not agree. The spiritual awakening is BEFORE the tribulation, and the joining of the two sticks is AFTER the tribulation.

So this is a vision that Ezekiel is seeing, not actual events.

The order is....spiritual awakening which is the Lords army, and they are prophecy-ed to which prepares them for battle. Chapter 37

The are not spiritually dead anymore, as God's spirit enters them and they become spiritually alive. This translates to everlasting life for those who are brought back to spiritual life.

Then the tribulation of 38 and 39...and then the Millennium of 40-48.

The order is perfect. The 37th chapter is not the resurrection, but a spiritual army being assembled...which is comprised of Israel....the elect....the chosen....the zadok.

in His service
c

Just The Facts · Jun 9, 2007

Hi Zeke

Sorry if you took my comment wrong I did not mean you are literally adding to the Word of God as in rev 22. I meant it say NOTHING about this all being a spiritual thing you are adding that into what is being said.

It is clear you do not really understand what prophecy

Quote
There are 12 tribes. not 10 1/2. You have forgotten half of Manasseh and all of Benjamin (who is often forgotten about. They stayed with Judah over the years. If you are going to be mad at Judah for taking the name Israel, do not misplace some of the tribes.
End Quote

Manasseh never stayed with the House of Judah…………………Manasseh is the Leader along with Ephraim of the House of Israel.

There are Two Houses the House of Judah which is the Tribe of Judah, Benjamin, and Levi…………..then there is the other nine tribes with Ephraim representing Joseph and the half tribe of Manasseh

Josh:13:7: Now therefore divide this land for an inheritance unto the nine tribes, and the half tribe of Manasseh,

This constituted what would be known as the Northern Kingdom Israel. The Name Israel belongs to the Tribe of Ephraim and the half tribe of Mannasseh. It is called a half tribe not because the other half is with Judah but because Joseph’s tribe is divided by two Ephraim and Mamasseh however Ephraim is the predominant Tribe.

My point was that Modern Israel DOES NOT HOLD THE RIGHT TO THE NAME ISRAEL…………………….they are all from the house of Judah IE: Judah Benjamin Levi. Modern Israel has no one from the house of Israel in it so now read Isaiah 48 again.

1: Hear ye this, O house of Jacob, which are called by the name of Israel, and are come forth out of the waters of Judah, which swear by the name of the LORD, and make mention of the God of Israel, but not in truth, nor in righteousness.

Here we have a group of people that are from the House of Judah using the name Israel but not in truth or righteousness…………………because they have no right to the name Israel they are Judah.

Quote
I do not agree. The spiritual awakening is BEFORE the tribulation, and the joining of the two sticks is AFTER the tribulation.
End Quote

No The spiritual awakening is

11: Then he said unto me, Son of man, these (first)bones are the whole house of Israel: behold, they say, Our bones are dried, and our hope is lost: we are cut off for our parts.12: Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel. 13: And ye shall know that I am the LORD, (Second)when I have opened your graves, O my people, and brought you up out of your graves, 14: (third)And shall put my spirit in you, and ye shall live, and (fourth)I shall place you in your own land:

First: Both houses not just the House of Judah so modern Israel is out.
Second: Brought out of graves.
Third: Spirit placed in them.
Fourth: placed in the land.

This IS NOT MODERN ISRAEL in any way shape or form.

Modern Israel is

First: not all of the tribes
Second: Alive they have not been brought out of Graves
Third: they do not have the Spirit of God
Fourth: They are already in the Land.

See the order is all wrong they fit none of this prophecy.

[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]

zeke37 · Jun 9, 2007

Well I will agree with some of what you have said.

Today's country of Israel, is not comprised of all the tribes, and I agree that many see the name Jew or Judah and think Israel. Even Jews think that every Hebrew was a Jew (on other forums). They call Abraham and Issac and Jacob all Jews.

Most people forget about the scattered tribes.

I still disagree with you on some points. I see it as the elect being spiritually awakened into an army...which they need their spiritual armour for because they do not fight men, but heavenly authorities.

37, preparation for battle,
38-39, battle
40-48 Millennium

in His service
c

Just The Facts · Jun 10, 2007

Hi Zeke

Think of this one simple and basic fact.

There is only ONE WAY TO GET THE SPIRIT OF THE LORD NOW.

Eph:1:13: In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

You have to become Christian you have to accept Jesus ......................So NOt one single Jew in Modern Israel is going to get the spirit of God before they accept Jesus. PERIOD!!!!

I understand that it is hard to do away with a old doctrine that you have become comfortable with ......it is like a good friend it comfortts us.

Think about what I have said and what scripture says not only here but else where pray to god for understanding and the Spirit of truth will teach you the truth.

Peace my brother in Christ

zeke37 · Jun 10, 2007

Just The Facts said:
Hi Zeke

Think of this one simple and basic fact.

There is only ONE WAY TO GET THE SPIRIT OF THE LORD NOW.

Eph:1:13: In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

You have to become Christian you have to accept Jesus ......................So NOt one single Jew in Modern Israel is going to get the spirit of God before they accept Jesus. PERIOD!!!!

I agree that no Jew is going to get the Spirit unless he/she is Messianic.

I understand that it is hard to do away with a old doctrine that you have become comfortable with ......it is like a good friend it comfortts us.

I don't believe that I fall into that category. I have had to 'put away' many of my old traditional views. This happens when Christians grow in knowledge. The meat of the Word.
Personally, I never claimed that the Spirit of God was going to be given to any that do not accept Messiah...
So, that is NOT part of my traditional views.

That being said, the Spirit of God was around in the Old Test. His ruach (Hebrew) or pneuma (Greek), which is easily provable.

I do not believe in any gathering to Christ (rapture)before the 7th trump. I find NO biblical support for a mass fleeing before the harvest. So, this cannot be a rapture. Those that accept Christ, God will give them His Spirit...

37 is speaking of God putting His Spirit into them(elect). It is a spiritual awakening......for the famine of the end times is not for food, but for the Word of God. God is awakening His election. Before 38-39...so they are ready for that tribulation.

Think about what I have said and what scripture says not only here but else where pray to god for understanding and the Spirit of truth will teach you the truth.

I'm sure that the 'god' you speak of is our Father (God),

at least I hope....

but I believe that maybe you think that I think ... that the 144,000 are all Jews.

Well, I don't.

12,000 are of Judah, but to be elect, they MUST receive Christ, so they MUST be Messianic....

Peace my brother in Christ

and to you!

in His service
c

Just The Facts · Jun 13, 2007

Hi Zeke

Then you agree that Modern Israel IS NOT Ezekiel 37 fulfilled.

zeke37 · Jun 13, 2007

Hello Just the facts,

Yes I agree. This is scattered Israel, including some 12,000 messianic Jews. But NOT the present day nation/country of Israel. I believe that Joseph's sons are in majority. Manasseh and Ephraim. US and Britain.

in His service
c

Just The Facts · Jun 13, 2007

Hi Zeke

I use to believe that England and Britian were Ephriam and Manesseh.

Now I understand they are not it is a far more incredible thing than that.

I will start a thread on this subject you may find it interesting

rdclmn72 · Jul 22, 2007

The panorama described within Ezekiel applies to both chapters in revelations. After assembling the nations at Armageddon, the two beasts are captured and cast into the lake of fire, the armies then ascend to Jerusaelm and as described in Revelations, they take the great city. Ezekiel then states that upon the mountains of Israel they will die.
God later specifically mentions Gog and Magog in the last battle before the city and encampment where they are consumed by fire.

Just The Facts · Jul 22, 2007

Hi rdclmn

I am sorry but what you just posted is in total conflict with scripture.

In Rev 20 they do not take Jerusalem they surround it.

In rev 19 when the beast is captured EVERY SINGLE SOLDIER IN EVERY SINGLE ARMY IS DESTROYED.

they do not go down and surround Jerusalem.

Ezekiel 37 & 38 and Revelation 20

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