why you just ignore them. there is two baptisms scripture is clear on this. the word baptism is used in three different ways in scripture.
No, Eph 4: says ONE baptism, here you say there is two baptisms. Your having to change the bible around to try and get your theology to work.
schroeder said:
you word it incorrectly. he said GO and make disciples, which NO scripture later or before EVER says water baptizing is part of making a disciple. and ALL the other accounts leave out the whole baptism wording. it says go make disciple, COMMA...... and teach them. you make disciples by shareing the message of Christ, they believe and become a disciple THEN you can teach, because scripture says wiothout the SPirit in you you cant understand his ways or teachings ect. So they cant be taught commands of God in there sinfull nature which they have UNTILL they have the SPirit in them, which you say is only gotten when they OBEY Gods commands. SEE the problem. HUMANS cant SAVE anyone have NO part in salvation other wise the Law would have been just fine. we are saved in our sins, inour sins we CANNOT OBEY God or be OBEDIANT in water baptism.
--Man does not have a sinful nature, a false teaching of Calvin, so your ideas above fail here.
--Mt 28:19,20 --make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them. The word for "make disciples" here means to instruct/teach another, where one stands as a pupil and instructed by another. So Jesus' followers are to teach converts, baptizing them. The participle (baptizing) explains how making disciples was performed. So one becomes a Christian-disciple by being baptized.
schroeder said:
the gentiles is not JUST the corneilus family. It was showing the jews with whom the purpose of it was for, that ALL was included in salvation and that there is no need of becoming a jew first. HOw were they to KNOW this Truth without a CLEAR sign that it was from God. You truelly have your eyes closed to what is being said. remember it was the gentiles being shown to the Jews they were also included, this is what shows the prophecy he was useing to be true, That ALL men would receiv the SPirit which saves them. Its apparent when he spoke of the prophecy they refused to believe ALL people could include the gentiles, in acts 10 they are shown that ALL people did include gentiles. SO it DID NOT FULLFIL it IT MADE IT CLEAR IT WAS TRUE, that ALL men would be included in salvation through Christ. It is still being fullfilled today and will be untill the end when Christ comes back to FULLFILL it completely, you know the REST of the prophecy.
The apostles were baptized with the Holy Spirit in Acts 2 and in Acts 2:16 Peter proves that this baptism was Joel's prophecy being fulfilled. So baptism with the Holy Spirit was nothing more than a prophecy of Joel which has been fulfilled by Christ and is obsolete. If it has not been fulfilled, then Jesus was not the Christ. You cannot have it both ways.
schroeder said:
read above you get that you will get the rest. KNOW that is not what it says, for if it did his sacrifice for sins would be a waste. hebrews is clear that the shwedding of blood is what forgives sin NOTHING else will do. Christ did this because we could not, other wise the sacrifices would have been sufficient. which is why it also says his work was a ONCE FOR ALL for our sins. rom 5 and heb. 9:20-28. UNDERSTAND there is NOTHING we can do to have our sins removed. acts 2:38 says. when you BELIEVE and accept Christ work your sins are forgiven, WHY because God will see christ in you who did the work needed. God does not look at our flesh he sees Christ, which is also why Christ says you must be baptized(his) for his unites him with you, and in doing this we are freed from death which is sins. You say Joel says who ever calls on his name will be saved. this leaves out water baptism does it not, OR do you simple just insert this because of what your theology about water bapism. If it is just calling on his name, which is belieiving in him, then it MUST be HIS baptism that saves and frees you from sin. so it does NOT harmonize the two. We are not saved through water baptism but through Christ, the only way that is possible is through his baptism.
"Doing nothing" will not remove sins. No one was told to to " do nothing and thou sins shalt be remitted."
Acts 2:38 Peter commanded them to be baptized for the remission of sins.
There is a night and day difference between what you say and the bible says.
THere is no verse that say believing on him is calling upon his name...you made that up.
Again I HARMOINIZED Acts 2:21 with Acts 2:38, they teach the same thing. There is one way to be saved and the bible does not contradict itself so they MUST teach the same thing. Your theology does nothing but create disharmony between verses.
schroeder said:
it doesnt but you seem guite good at making it contradict itself. seeing how getting water baptized is not shedding of blood, you have a problem. Seeing how it is NEVER stated as such in scripture your making it up to say it does in some way. Your say it unites us to christ which unites us to his blood but what he did was ONCE FOR ALL. what was needed to be done for our forgiveness was already DONE, if it was once for all already accomplished what need is there for water baptism to do it. NONE. again they do not say the same thing. ALL YOU do is melt them together. on there own they do not say the same thing in how you read it. one says call on his name. jesus say over and over believe on me for eternal life. NOTHING in this statement suggest water baptism SO no they do NOT say the same thing in your thinking. therefore YOU make them contradict. scripture is clear there is NOTHING we can do to freeus from sin or save ourselves. We are in sin, saved by Grace, which is in our sins. While we were still sinners GOd saved us. how is this possible if as you say we can be obediant in water baptism? SOOOO how are we saved.
You say "They do not say the same thing". So the bible contradicts itself or there is more than one way to be saved.
schroeder said:
ONE: Christ did the work needed he shed his blood. what the Law reguired Christ fullfilled forever.
Christ shed His blood for everyone, yet everyone will not be saved, so there is "something" that separates the saved from the lost, that something being obedience. Christ's shed blood does nothing for those that do nothing.
schroeder said:
TWO: God says our work is to believe on his son.Jn. 6:29 FAITH or BELIEF.
So you do see that belief/faith is a work, not just mere mental thoughts.
schroeder said:
THREE when we believe and accept what he did for us Christ comes into us, His baptism.
His baptism gives us the holy SPirit. If he is to come into us how else is he to do it. his spirit overwhlems us( the deffinition of baptism, immersion ect) His spirit gives us a rebirth(being controlled by his spirit and not our flesh rom 6) and renewal( his spirit in us making us like himself, untill the end days when we are glorified and he is with us physically again)
This is the only way GRACE can be used to save us. notice the only thing we do is believe, hince not by works( being doing something to receive something. we believe in our sin or flesh)
Maybe according to schroeder 5:18, but no verse in the bible teaches such a thing.
