Poll about evolutionary science

Evolutionary Theory is...:

  • Good quality, and useful science

  • Poor, or at best misguided, science where the evidence is misinterpreted

  • Nothing more then speculation, an idea with no valid evidence to support it.

  • A deliberate deception, perhaps even a conspiracy


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MSBS

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Originally posted by franklin

Here's some more questions for all those who embrace evolution.

Do you believe that evolution is true?  If so, then provide an answer to the following questions. "Evolution" in this context is the idea that natural, undirected processes are sufficient to account for the existence of all natural things.

Something from nothing?
The "Big Bang", the most widely accepted theory of the beginning of the universe, states that everything developed from a small dense cloud of subatomic particles and radiation which exploded, forming hydrogen (and some helium) gas.

Where did this energy/matter come from?

How reasonable is it to assume it came into being from nothing?

And even if it did come into being, what would cause it to explode?

We know from common experience that explosions are destructive and lead to disorder. How reasonable is it to assume that a "big bang" explosion produced the opposite effect - increasing "information", order and the formation of useful structures, such as stars and planets, and eventually people?

 

Answer from someone that believes in evolution:

I'm a biologist.  I study biology.  I'm well versed in the neo-darwinian theory of evolution.  None of the questions you asked are even remotely addressed by this theory.  You should start a thread about cosomology an ask them there because they are not about evolution.  If you would care to ask some more questions about evolution, those of us with a background in biology will endeavor to answer them.  The one or two that you have asked that were actually on topic have been addressed in detail. 

 

Your responses thus far have been the intellectual eqivalent of sticking your fingers in your ears and screaming "I can't hear you, I can't hear you!" 
 
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Late_Cretaceous

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The Big Bang was NOT an explosion.
Matter and energy did not come from "nothing". A vacuum is not nothing.

 

 

Even IF the universe, the Earth, and Life on Earth was created miraculously -  How would that invalidate evolutionary theory?

It wouldn't.
 
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franklin

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and the Saga keeps on in it's continuation .........

I have more challenges for the evolutionists out there in this great big beautiful world that I believe God created by the word of His mouth..... I must admit some of the answers so far are extremely interesting in that in order for me to accept your theory would require me to adopt an extremely high level of faith above and beyond believing in the God that I believe created everything from nothing! and sorry Rufus but all the questions I've been asking relates to your so called theory of "evolution" .....  Let's see what you can do with this one.  And don't tell me it's off the topic or not related to your theory.  That is beginning to sound like a cop out! 
So continuing with the ongoing theme of things with the question at hand, Do you believe that evolution is true? 

Let's move on to Information from Randomness?

Information theory states that "information" never arises out of randomness or chance events. Our human experience verifies this every day. How can the origin of the tremendous increase in information from simple organisms up to man be accounted for? Information is always introduced from the outside. It is impossible for natural processes to produce their own actual information, or meaning, which is what evolutionists claim has happened. Random typing might produce the string "dog", but it only means something to an intelligent observer who has applied a definition to this sequence of letters. The generation of information always requires intelligence, yet evolution claims that no intelligence was involved in the ultimate formation of a human being whose many systems contain vast amounts of information.

So how does the evolutionist explain that we were not created by some outside supreme intelligence?

FR


 
 
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Originally posted by franklin
and the Saga keeps on in it's continuation .........

Yeap, Franklin keeps offering irrevelant challenges because he knows nothing about the science of biology.

I have more challenges for the evolutionists out there in this great big beautiful world that I believe God created by the word of His mouth..... I must admit some of the answers so far are extremely interesting in that in order for me to accept your theory would require me to adopt an extremely high level of faith above and beyond believing in the God that I believe created everything from nothing!

And I thought you said that something can't come from nothing? Now you said that something did come from nothing? Which part of your contradiction do you really believe?

Maybe accepting evolution wouldn't take faith on your part if you'd actually look at the science behind it.

Rufus but all the questions I've been asking relates to your so called theory of "evolution" ..... 

Nope, barely any of them do. I work with the theory of evolution every day. You refuse to read biology textbooks. Which one of us is more likely to know what is on topic and what is not? If you disagree with me, make a well thought out argument of why these things relate to evolution citing scientific sources to back yourself up. Assertion gets you no where.

Let's see what you can do with this one.  And don't tell me it's off the topic or not related to your theory.  That is beginning to sound like a cop out! 

:rolleyes:

So continuing with the ongoing theme of things with the question at hand, Do you believe that evolution is true? 

No more than you believe that gravity is true. I accept that evolution is the best explaination based upon the scientific observations and study.

Let's move on to Information from Randomness?

I already addressed the "no-new-information" argument. Do you even bother to read my posts? :(

So how does the evolutionist explain that we were not created by some outside supreme intelligence?

The burden of proof is not on the "evolutionist, but on the one claiming that we were created by some outside supreme intelligence. I guess you better get started writing your treatise.
 
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Nothing comes from randomness. And, as a Christian, I believe an intelligent Force----God, is behind evolutionary processes. And information does not necessarily equal complexity. An earthworm has more genetic "information" than a human being, but which is more complex? Please do not argue something that you know absolutely nothing about.
 
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eldermike

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Please double read your posts and remove any personal attacks. It's an easy thing to do. I am enjoying this thread so please, lets keep it on subject and off of personal issues.

Franklin, I know the source of your argument. If you would give credit then the attacks would be on the information and not you.
 
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Morat

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Where did the <I>first</I> genetic <I>information</I> (DNA) come from, since all known information came from an intelligence?

&nbsp; That's a funny claim. It's also not true. We'll add "information theory" to your list of studies, shall we?

&nbsp;&nbsp; Information does not need intelligence. The light from a star is packed with information, for instance.

How could chance, mutations, &amp; time create <I>new</I> animal kinds,&nbsp;since no known mutations have ever created <I><B>new</B></I> genetic information?

&nbsp;&nbsp; We'll add "genetics" to your list of studies, shall we? A simple duplication followed by a point mutation adds information by any formal measure, and even something as simple as a mutation that gives someone purple eyes adds it to a population by informal measures.

&nbsp; If you're going to babble about "information" I suggest you learn about it.

&nbsp; How many <I>mutations</I> (positive ones) would have been needed to go from a non-living Atom to the first man, Adam?

&nbsp; The first man was named Adam? And he came from atoms? Weirie. See, I figured the first population of true homo sapiens would have been impossible to pick out, except as an arbitrary point looking backwards. Indeed, as a nice table on talk.origins points out, it seems to be the way Creationists see it. Why, they can't seem to agree on which skull is true homo sapiens!

&nbsp;&nbsp; Since men didn't evolve from atoms but from other animals, the rest of your question is nonsense.

&nbsp;&nbsp; We can, if you wish to pursue this, add "abiogenesis" to your study list.

&nbsp;&nbsp;How much <I>time</I> would have been needed for all of these positive mutations to occur? How could all of these supposedly positive mutations overcome the cells <I>corrective processes? </I>

&nbsp;&nbsp; Oh, I'd say about 3.5 billion years or so. At least, that's what it looks like. As for "corrective processes" you are aware that you are the carrier of several unique mutations yourself, right?

Why do statistical computer analyses now show that, not millions or even trillions, but virtually <I><B>infinite</B></I> time would have been required for evolution from an atom to an Adam, even if positive mutations were actually common.

&nbsp;&nbsp; Really? How neat. What simulations? By whom? What assumptions did they make? I'm particularly amazed at how they managed to come up with an abiogenetic pathway, since that's currently an area of much research, and few conclusions.

&nbsp; If I didn't know better, I'd assume you were simply making that up. But I know better. You didn't make it up. Someone else did, and you believed it.

&nbsp; The amount of genetic information that would have to have been generated by chance mutations is incomprehensibly massive.

&nbsp; So you say. So it fails to be. You so need to hit the books, boyo.&nbsp;

Are evolutionary studies about ORIGINS, science or history?

&nbsp;&nbsp; Evolutionary studies are about the diversity of life. :)

Do you believe that evolution is true?&nbsp; If so, then provide an answer to the following questions. "Evolution" in this context is the idea that natural, undirected processes are sufficient to account for the existence of all natural things.

&nbsp;&nbsp; Do you believe God exists? "God", in this context, refers to the hairy little man who lives next to me.Hehe! Making up your own strawmen is fun!

Something from nothing?
The "Big Bang", the most widely accepted theory of the beginning of the universe, states that everything developed from a small dense cloud of subatomic particles and radiation which exploded, forming hydrogen (and some helium) gas.

&nbsp;&nbsp; Named by a Jesuit, the atheistic scum. And, by the way, your 'synopsis' of the Big Bang isn't right either. It's not even close. Do you know what inflation is?

Where did this energy/matter come from?

How reasonable is it to assume it came into being from nothing?

And even if it did come into being, what would cause it to explode?

&nbsp;&nbsp; There was no explosion. *shrug*. This is what you get when you don't study.

&nbsp; Franklin, I enjoy your challenges. However, don't you feel that it's a tad appropriate to acknowledge all these people pointing out your errors, rather then move on to committing new ones?

&nbsp; This, for instance:

Information theory states that "information" <I><B>never</B></I> arises out of randomness or chance events

&nbsp; Really? Where? Point it out, please. Oh, and also explain how M&amp;NS is "randomness or chance events".

&nbsp;&nbsp;

&nbsp;
 
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Originally posted by Morat
&nbsp;&nbsp;
&nbsp;&nbsp; Since men didn't evolve from atoms but from other animals, the rest of your question is nonsense.

We&nbsp;are not animals, we are above the smelly animals

&nbsp;&nbsp;

&nbsp;

&nbsp;
We can, if you wish to pursue this, add "abiogenesis" to your study list.

Abiogenesis is not real science. Life can't come from non-life.


You so need to hit the books, boyo.&nbsp;

"Boyo"? I&nbsp;didn't know you were Irish.&nbsp;



&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
 
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Pete Harcoff

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Question for Franklin:

How does an oxygen atom "know" how to link up with two hydrogen atoms to form a water molecule?

I think we can agree that separate hydrogen atoms and oxygen atoms exist. Furthermore, two hydrogen atoms bonded to an oxygen atom is more "complex" than any of the independent parts. But, I'm willing to wager that neither the hydrogen atoms nor the oxygen atoms has any "knowledge" about basic chemistry. Following this "logical" line of thought, I might conclude that water cannot form (since oxygen and hydrogen atoms have no "knowledge" of how to do so). But since I see water everyday, I know that this isn't the case. So, I conclude, it must be the hand of God sticking all those hydrogen and oxygen atoms together! So all that stuff I learned about positive and negative attractions, ionic and covalent bonds, etc, etc, is nothing more than a bunch of atheistic dogma designed to keep God out of the classroom.

If you'll excuse me now, I'm off to write a letter of protest demanding they remove chemistry from the school curriculum.
 
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Morat

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We&nbsp;are not animals, we are above the smelly animals

&nbsp;&nbsp; *laugh*. Let's see: Do female humans nurse their&nbsp;young? Do you have spinal chord?&nbsp;Hair? Jeez, you look like a mammal to me. And, as mammal is a subgroup of the Animal kingdom, you're a bloody animal.

&nbsp;&nbsp;

Abiogenesis is not real science. Life can't come from non-life.

&nbsp; That's nice. It's always pleasant when people share their opinions. How about I nip on down to the biochemists involved in abiogenesis work and tell them they're not scientists.

&nbsp; Oh wait, I'll need a reason.

&nbsp;
 
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Humans may have hair and nurse their young, but we have one thing the animals don't----a soul. Of course, since you're an atheist, you don't believe in souls.

Abiogenisis violates the laws of science. One of the laws of science is that life can't come from non-life. Also, matter can neither be created nor destroyed. Abiogenesis requires that non-living matter become living matter or that new living matter be created, both of which are impossible.
 
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LewisWildermuth

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Originally posted by Sky
Abiogenisis violates the laws of science. One of the laws of science is that life can't come from non-life.


Now I never heard of this law... Care to tell us where this law entered into science?

Also, matter can neither be created nor destroyed. Abiogenesis requires that non-living matter become living matter or that new living matter be created, both of which are impossible.

Ummm it is not matter that cannot be created or destroyed, but energy, matter is created and destroyed all the time.

And again there is no law in science that non-life cannot produce life.
 
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Late_Cretaceous

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What is the difference between living matter and non living matter?
Our bodies are 70% water, is that water living or non living? If I drink a glass of water, is the water in the glass different then the water in my body? Does it change once it in incorporated into my cells and blood?
If you manufactured amino acids from pure carbon, nitrogen, hydrogen and oxygen then injested them and they became incorporated into your muscles and tissues - at what point exactly do those amino acids become "living matter". And, from the point of an oxygen atom - what difference would you experince if you were floating around in a beaker or part of someone's nose?

The whole distinction between living and nonliving matter is nonsensical.
 
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