Originally posted by The Bible is Right
Romans 6:17 Tell's us what they did in rome, "But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have OBEYED from the heart that from of doctrine which was delivered you.
Just a little theological FYI for you: When the Bible speaks of the "heart" it does not mean your physical heart. It means your "seat of reason." Paul does stress the activity of the individual in conversion ("present yourselves," v. 16; "obeyed," v. 17), however, he gratefully traces all right spiritual responses to the grace of God. While the individual is active in conversion, it is in a non-contributory and non-meritorious way, so that neither divine grace nor divine sovereignty is compromised. Look at the first words in your reference, "But God be thanked..." Additionally, it is important to note that a more accurate interpretation of "servants of sin" would be "
slaves of sin."
GOD! Is the one who gave us the gospel, he didn't make me obey it.
It's so strange to me that when people do something wrong they will so readily attribute it to "the tempting of the devil" but when they do something right they will do just about anything to justify
not attributing it to God. Maybe strange isn't the word. Sad. Yeah. That's more accurate.
When I heard it, I was prick in the heart and realized my condition, and what God was offering through Jesus Christ, and I excepted it and OBEYED what Jesus told me to, and as a result I am saved.
So if I'm following you correctly,
you heard it,
your heart was "pricked,"
you accepted,
you obeyed, so
you are saved. Hmmm...all God did was offer it? You seem a wee bit off on who you should be glorifying. Who saved you, and why? So God saved you because of something you did? Here, take a look at this:
Ephesians 2:8,9
For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that
not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,<SUP> </SUP>
not of works, lest anyone should boast.
Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Romans 10:17
So what does your response mean? You heard it enough times? By the way, I guess you just missed it but I asked, "Just out of curiosity, how is it that you're so sure that God was not the One that put that new belief in you that caused you to believe. Do you actually think you spawned a righteous belief in God from an unrighteous, fallen heart?"
He does it for those who OBEY the gospel Romans 6:17.
You sure do enjoy crediting your salvation to your ability to "obey the Gospel." Just so I know, what do you make of this description of the fallen man:
Romans 3:10-18
As it is written:
"There is none righteous, no, not one;
<SUP> </SUP>
There is none who understands;
There is none who seeks after God.
<SUP> </SUP>They have all turned aside;
They have together become unprofitable;
There is none who does good, no, not one."
<SUP> </SUP>"Their throat is an open tomb;
With their tongues they have practiced deceit";
"The poison of asps is under their lips";
<SUP> </SUP>"Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness."
<SUP> </SUP>"Their feet are swift to shed blood;
<SUP> </SUP>Destruction and misery are in their ways;
<SUP> </SUP>And the way of peace they have not known."
<SUP> </SUP>"There is no fear of God before their eyes."
Was this ever your disposition towards God, or does this describe everyone but you in their fallen state?
Do you remember what Jesus said in Matt.7:13-14 in both verses he said "ENTER YE" now did he give us a choice or not?
A choice to do what? Be obedient, or be saved? I don't think I'll be surprised by your answer here. Anyway, He's telling Christians to be obedient to the Word and that it isn't as the false prophets of v. 15 paint it. The Christian life is difficult, and oftentimes filled with trouble and temptation.
Who is the gospel preached too, the saved or the lost?
Uhhh...both.
And if the lost rejects the gospel who fault is it God's or thiers?
Those who reject it. I've never said anything contrary to this.
If you agree that we have the God given right to make decisions, why do you have a problem with the decision I made to come to Christ?
Because bro, your "ability" to make decision is influenced by so many things, the greatest of these being our very nature and spiritual disposition, that to say you made a free will choice to "accept God" is just based on ignorance of God's sovereign authority over you. Just for a second, think of the picture of God, sitting in Heaven, hoping, hoping, hoping that you "come to Christ," as you say. You say He desires your salvation but leaves it totally up to you. First off, God is omniscient, right? Why would He hope, if He already knew? Do you think you're going to throw Him for a loop? It's not like God's going to say, "Oh man! I thought you were going to reject me but you surprised me by accepting me." Secondly, if His desire (Will) is subject to your decision (will) that defeats the entire concept of Him being sovereign. Most importantly, you were enslaved, in bondage, to your fallen nature. You knew no righteousness, nor did you desire it (see above reference to Rom 3:10-18). How, in the midsts of that were you supposed to have seen the error of your ways and repented of it and decided to make the righteous decision to accept Christ as your Lord?
This is because we did not have an option then, until the gospel came.
The Gospel? Do you mean the Bible? God's Law was established long before man was created. If it had not been, Adam could not have transgressed a Law that didn't exist.
Once the gospel was available, we don't have anymore excuse. Romans 2:1
So when was this "gospel" supposed to have come into existance?
You cannot get this new nature without OBEYING THE GOSPEL.
This gives you the credit and glorifies you. I say we cannot obey the Gospel with this new nature, which God gives us. I give all credit to God for my redemption, to include acknowledging that it is solely His grace that keeps me from sin. I know all too well what happens when He holds back that grace. I sin.
The principal is the same, all men must make a choice.
But I don't disagree with you on this. I'm just telling you, until God changes a person's nature, the choice they will
ALWAYS make is to live in their fallen sinfulness.
God bless.