OldShepherd
Zaqunraah
John 17:3 is the ultimate proof text for all anti-Trinitarian cults. It supposedly proves that Jesus is not God because He refers to the Father as the only true God. But Trinitarians recognize that while Jesus is God, Jesus is not the Father, so there is no problem or contradiction. Simply put, God can do or be anything He wants, any time, He wants, any way He wants.
John 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
1 John 5:20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.
Jesus speaking of the Father, the only true God but John, the same writer, speaking of Jesus Christ, This is the true God, and eternal life. This is known as harmonizing scripture as opposed to proof texting, i.e. trying to prove doctrine by quoting one or two verses and ignoring verses which dont support the doctrine.
It will be noted that in all the passages cited I let the passages speak, they mean what they say, not once do I say that the words means something else as do all anti-Trinitarians.
1 Tim 1:16 Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.
17 Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen.
In this passage Paul calls Jesus the King eternal and the only wise God
John 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
Jesus was claiming present tense existence before Abraham and into the present. This happened inside the temple. The scribes and Pharisees were among those who tried to stone, i.e. murder, Jesus, in the temple, because He claimed for Himself the title, I Am.
God identified Himself by the name, I Am/ אהיה to Moses, in Gen 7:14. This name, I Am was so exclusive to God that He condemned Assyria and Babylon for using it to refer to themselves, Isaiah 47:8, 10, and Zephaniah 2:15.
Is 47:8 Therefore hear now this, thou that art given to pleasures, that dwellest carelessly, that sayest in thine heart, I am, and none else beside me; I shall not sit as a widow, neither shall I know the loss of children:
Zep 2:15 This is the rejoicing city that dwelt carelessly, that said in her heart, I am, and there is none beside me: how is she become a desolation, a place for beasts to lie down in! every one that passeth by her shall hiss, and wag his hand.
Titus 2:13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;
2 Peter 1:1 Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:
Both Paul and Peter call Jesus, God and savior Anti-Trinitarians want to argue, based on the English, that this means two different entities, God is one, Jesus the savior, the other. But that is not the way the Greek works.
There is a rule of grammar called Sharps rule. When two nouns are joined by the copulative, and/kai, and the first noun has the definite article but the second does not, both nouns refer to the same person or thing. In both these verses God has the definite article but savior does not. Therefore, in both verses, God and savior refer to Jesus.
1 Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
Paul said Jesus was God manifest in the flesh.
John 20:28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.
Thomas called Jesus Lord and God. Jesus praised Him. I have already proved on this thread that Thomas was addressing Jesus as the Lord of me and the God of me, not exclaiming, Oh my god!
29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.
John 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
John 17:24 Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.
Jesus had glory with and was loved by the Father before the foundation of the world, and was aware of that love and glory. Jesus self awareness did not begin at His birth in Bethlehem!
Philippians 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
Jesus existed in the form (morfh) of God and was equal with God. The word, morfh, is used only three times in the N.T., and exclusively of Jesus!
John 8:17 It is also written in your law, that the testimony of two men is true.
18 I am one that bear witness of myself, and the Father that sent me beareth witness of me.
Jesus and the Father are two men, recognized under Jewish law.
Colossians 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
Colossians 1:17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
Jesus created all things and existed before all things.
Hebrews 1:3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;
Jesus is the express image of Gods person.
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
John 1:1-2 en arch hn o logoV kai o logoV hn proV ton qeon kai qeon hn o logoV outoV hn en arch proV ton qeon
Jesus existed in the beginning with God and was God. Jesus made all things.
Many different cults have tried to twist and wrest the words of John 1:1. But the Greek is very precise and very clear. the word was God (theon en o logos) and the word was with God (o logos ein pros ton theon) The word translated was with is pros which means face to face.
A. T. Robertson, Word Pictures in the New Testament.
{With God} (proV ton qeon). Though existing eternally with God the Logos was in perfect fellowship with God.Pros proV with the accusative presents a plane of equality and intimacy, face to face with each other. In #1Jo 2:1 we have a like use of \pros "We have a Paraclete with the Father" (paraklhton ecomen proV ton patera). See \(proswpon proV proswpon\ (face to face, #1Co 13:12), a triple use of \pros. There is a papyrus example of \pros\ in this sense \(to gnwston thV proV allhlouV sunhqhaV\, "the knowledge of our intimacy with one another" (M.&M., _Vocabulary_) which answers the claim of Rendel Harris, _Origin of Prologue_, p. 8) that the use of \pros\ here and in #Mr 6:3 is a mere Aramaism.
Robertson taught post graduate N.T. Greek for 47 years, wrote forty books, including a 1200 page Greek grammar, and the six volume Word Pictures quoted above.
Isaiah 48:16 Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord GOD (יהוה), and his Spirit, hath sent me.
17 Thus saith the LORD, (יהוה), thy Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel; I am the LORD (יהוה),thy God which teacheth thee to profit, which leadeth thee by the way that thou shouldest go.
The Trinity in the O.T.. One who identifies Himself as YHWH (יהוה) thy Redeemer, is sent by a second Lord (adonay) YHWH/יהוה and three, His spirit.,
1 John 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
The Trinity in the N.T.. the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. Many anti-Trinitarians want to argue that 1 John 5:7 is a forgery, inserted in the text in the 16th century. But the early church father Cyprian quoted it in 250 AD.
Cyprian (250 AD) Link to: Treatise I On The Unity of the Church
The Lord says, "I and the Father are one; " and again it is written of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, "And these three are one." And does any one believe that this unity which thus comes from the divine strength and coheres in celestial sacraments, can be divided in the Church, and can be separated by the parting asunder of opposing wills? He who does not hold this unity does not hold God's law, does not hold the faith of the Father and the Son, does not hold life and salvation.
http://www.ccel.org/fathers2/ANF-05/anf05-111.htm#P6832_2190664
John 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.
John 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?
To be continued
John 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
1 John 5:20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.
Jesus speaking of the Father, the only true God but John, the same writer, speaking of Jesus Christ, This is the true God, and eternal life. This is known as harmonizing scripture as opposed to proof texting, i.e. trying to prove doctrine by quoting one or two verses and ignoring verses which dont support the doctrine.
It will be noted that in all the passages cited I let the passages speak, they mean what they say, not once do I say that the words means something else as do all anti-Trinitarians.
1 Tim 1:16 Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.
17 Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen.
In this passage Paul calls Jesus the King eternal and the only wise God
John 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
Jesus was claiming present tense existence before Abraham and into the present. This happened inside the temple. The scribes and Pharisees were among those who tried to stone, i.e. murder, Jesus, in the temple, because He claimed for Himself the title, I Am.
God identified Himself by the name, I Am/ אהיה to Moses, in Gen 7:14. This name, I Am was so exclusive to God that He condemned Assyria and Babylon for using it to refer to themselves, Isaiah 47:8, 10, and Zephaniah 2:15.
Is 47:8 Therefore hear now this, thou that art given to pleasures, that dwellest carelessly, that sayest in thine heart, I am, and none else beside me; I shall not sit as a widow, neither shall I know the loss of children:
Zep 2:15 This is the rejoicing city that dwelt carelessly, that said in her heart, I am, and there is none beside me: how is she become a desolation, a place for beasts to lie down in! every one that passeth by her shall hiss, and wag his hand.
Titus 2:13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;
2 Peter 1:1 Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:
Both Paul and Peter call Jesus, God and savior Anti-Trinitarians want to argue, based on the English, that this means two different entities, God is one, Jesus the savior, the other. But that is not the way the Greek works.
There is a rule of grammar called Sharps rule. When two nouns are joined by the copulative, and/kai, and the first noun has the definite article but the second does not, both nouns refer to the same person or thing. In both these verses God has the definite article but savior does not. Therefore, in both verses, God and savior refer to Jesus.
1 Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
Paul said Jesus was God manifest in the flesh.
John 20:28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.
Thomas called Jesus Lord and God. Jesus praised Him. I have already proved on this thread that Thomas was addressing Jesus as the Lord of me and the God of me, not exclaiming, Oh my god!
29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.
John 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
John 17:24 Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.
Jesus had glory with and was loved by the Father before the foundation of the world, and was aware of that love and glory. Jesus self awareness did not begin at His birth in Bethlehem!
Philippians 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
Jesus existed in the form (morfh) of God and was equal with God. The word, morfh, is used only three times in the N.T., and exclusively of Jesus!
John 8:17 It is also written in your law, that the testimony of two men is true.
18 I am one that bear witness of myself, and the Father that sent me beareth witness of me.
Jesus and the Father are two men, recognized under Jewish law.
Colossians 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
Colossians 1:17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
Jesus created all things and existed before all things.
Hebrews 1:3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;
Jesus is the express image of Gods person.
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
John 1:1-2 en arch hn o logoV kai o logoV hn proV ton qeon kai qeon hn o logoV outoV hn en arch proV ton qeon
Jesus existed in the beginning with God and was God. Jesus made all things.
Many different cults have tried to twist and wrest the words of John 1:1. But the Greek is very precise and very clear. the word was God (theon en o logos) and the word was with God (o logos ein pros ton theon) The word translated was with is pros which means face to face.
A. T. Robertson, Word Pictures in the New Testament.
{With God} (proV ton qeon). Though existing eternally with God the Logos was in perfect fellowship with God.Pros proV with the accusative presents a plane of equality and intimacy, face to face with each other. In #1Jo 2:1 we have a like use of \pros "We have a Paraclete with the Father" (paraklhton ecomen proV ton patera). See \(proswpon proV proswpon\ (face to face, #1Co 13:12), a triple use of \pros. There is a papyrus example of \pros\ in this sense \(to gnwston thV proV allhlouV sunhqhaV\, "the knowledge of our intimacy with one another" (M.&M., _Vocabulary_) which answers the claim of Rendel Harris, _Origin of Prologue_, p. 8) that the use of \pros\ here and in #Mr 6:3 is a mere Aramaism.
Robertson taught post graduate N.T. Greek for 47 years, wrote forty books, including a 1200 page Greek grammar, and the six volume Word Pictures quoted above.
Isaiah 48:16 Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord GOD (יהוה), and his Spirit, hath sent me.
17 Thus saith the LORD, (יהוה), thy Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel; I am the LORD (יהוה),thy God which teacheth thee to profit, which leadeth thee by the way that thou shouldest go.
The Trinity in the O.T.. One who identifies Himself as YHWH (יהוה) thy Redeemer, is sent by a second Lord (adonay) YHWH/יהוה and three, His spirit.,
1 John 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
The Trinity in the N.T.. the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. Many anti-Trinitarians want to argue that 1 John 5:7 is a forgery, inserted in the text in the 16th century. But the early church father Cyprian quoted it in 250 AD.
Cyprian (250 AD) Link to: Treatise I On The Unity of the Church
The Lord says, "I and the Father are one; " and again it is written of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, "And these three are one." And does any one believe that this unity which thus comes from the divine strength and coheres in celestial sacraments, can be divided in the Church, and can be separated by the parting asunder of opposing wills? He who does not hold this unity does not hold God's law, does not hold the faith of the Father and the Son, does not hold life and salvation.
http://www.ccel.org/fathers2/ANF-05/anf05-111.htm#P6832_2190664
John 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.
John 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?
To be continued
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