Are you saved?

thereselittleflower said:

That's my point.


Common knowledge can be wrong, so it can't be a barometer for truth . . . . .



.

Click to expand...

Common sense is what I ment. I think you knew that.

Renton405 said:

Luther decided that 7 books of the original bible wouldnt be the Word of God.. The book of james almost got thrown out too of not being the Word of God too.. such quick rash decisions from just a regular man..yet he claims to have to authority to take 7 books out of the septuagint?? That would be playing God in my eyes..

You trust him apparently..otherwise you would include the apocrypha

Click to expand...

Yes and the Book of Enoch along with countless others.

There is not one protestant that is not affected by the decisions Martin Luther made..

Yet Martin Luther is not infallible and he isn't God.. So your beliefs have been affected by the decisions of men and not God..(5 solas)

thereselittleflower said:

Exactly . . no misunderstanding between us on this I think.

I would say it this way though . . if we want to hold onto the hope of our salvation, then we need to be obediant to Him in faith.

Obedience without faith will do nothing.

Faith without obedience will do nothing.


That is why Good Works, as spoken of in the scriptures, cannot be separated from faith.

So God tells us that He will give eternal life to those who persevere in doing good . .faith is automatically included as a necessary adjunct to good works, just as good works are a necessary adjunct to living, saving faith.

.

Click to expand...

So, it is your understanding that we are not "saved" until the work is completed, until we have died, been resurrected, found to be in the Lamb's book and put on the imperishable. Therefore, if salvation is something that has not yet happened how can we know we are saved. Is this correct?

Additionally, you seem to state that the hope we have toward this is tenuous and dependent on our good works. Is this also correct?

I think so

Renton405 said:

There is not one protestant that is not affected by the decisions Martin Luther made..

Yet Martin Luther is not infallible and he isn't God.. So your beliefs have been affected by the decisions of men and not God..(5 solas)

Click to expand...

This is a pointless arguement, unless you believe that 72 or so men are less fallible than one man, or one man less fallible than 72. All men are fallible and unless you are going questing for the original tablets written with the finger of God, then it becomes necessary to have faith that God can maintain the integrity of His Word even through fallible men.

KTatis said:

Common sense is what I ment. I think you knew that.

Click to expand...

Common sense can be wrong too . .

Look at the SIDS issue . . for a long time, common sense dictated that people sleep their infants on their stomachs as the most safe postion, or on their sides.

Well, just a few years ago, this was proven to be a very dangerous practice, and doctors began to direct parents to sleep their children on their backs. The rate of SIDS went down dramatically.

My first child died of SIDS so I keep tabs on what is going on in that area.

So . . common sense was wrong . . .


Common sense can be no better a barometer of truth than common knowledge can.


.

MadHermit said:

So, it is your understanding that we are not "saved" until the work is completed, until we have died, been resurrected, found to be in the Lamb's book and put on the imperishable. Therefore, if salvation is something that has not yet happened how can we know we are saved. Is this correct?

Click to expand...

Almost.

Scripture teaches us about salvation in different stages.

The scriptures say I am saved, I am being saved, I will be saved.

It is important to understand the distinction between these stages.

The first stage is being saved from the power of sin, the new birth.

The first stage of salvation does not automatically mean we will reach the final stage which is our receiving eternal life, entering heaven.

Inbetween is our process of being saved, working out our salvation in fear and trembling, persevering in good works, to the end as scipture warns us we must do.

So while we have our initial salvation from dead works and sin, we have yet to attain final salvation, which is conditioned on us persevering in faith and good works till the end.

So, it is upon our death where it will be found out if we have died in the friendship of God. . . we do not need to wait for the resurrection to find that out. We find it out when we leave this world and can add nothing more to what we have done to persevere in good works.

As Romans 2:7 tells us, God will give eternal life to those (believers) who persevere in good works reaching for glorly, honor and immortality.

Additionally, you seem to state that the hope we have toward this is tenuous and dependent on our good works. Is this also correct?

Click to expand...

That is what scripture says . .

Romans 2:7 being one of the most explicit teachings on this matter.

James 2 tells us that faith without works is dead like a corpse . . . .

Can a dead faith save?



.

thereselittleflower said:

Common sense can be wrong too . .

Look at the SIDS issue . . for a long time, common sense dictated that people sleep their infants on their stomachs as the most safe postion, or on their sides.

Well, just a few years ago, this was proven to be a very dangerous practice, and doctors began to direct parents to sleep their children on their backs. The rate of SIDS went down dramatically.

My first child died of SIDS so I keep tabs on what is going on in that area.

So . . common sense was wrong . . .


Common sense can be no better a barometer of truth than common knowledge can.


.

Click to expand...

And it was common sense that showed them the error of their ways. Now when you compare this with faith and assume faith is a barometer of truth then you begin to realize faith wouldn't have solved this problem. Which was you OP.

KTatis said:

And it was common sense that showed them the error of their ways. Now when you compare this with faith and assume faith is a barometer of truth then you begin to realize faith wouldn't have solved this problem. Which was you OP.

Click to expand...

Therese, sometimes we are called to have good discernment. If we are entering into an argument with one who just argues for the sake of arguing, let them sit there and find others to argue with.

Just healthy advise, as I seen this habit here quite a bit in this section.

KTatis said:

And it was common sense that showed them the error of their ways.

Click to expand...

No, it wasn't .. it was the results of sceintific investigation . .facts . .. not common sense.

Now when you compare this with faith and assume faith is a barometer of truth then you begin to realize faith wouldn't have solved this problem. Which was you OP.

Click to expand...

I have never assumed faith is the barometer of truth . . .



.

Dave01 said:

Therese, sometimes we are called to have good discernment. If we are entering into an argument with one who just argues for the sake of arguing, let them sit there and find others to argue with.

Just healthy advise, as I seen this habit here quite a bit in this section.

Click to expand...

Its OK Dave . . we have good reasons to be discussing this.


.

thereselittleflower said:

Its OK Dave . . we have good reasons to be discussing this.


.

Click to expand...

It is just advise that even I am trying to heed now.

I don't have much time for those who make an argument up anymore, we already know GOD and what will happen in the end, so why worry about those who are ever learning but never coming to a knowledge of the truth.

/rant off

Renton405 said:

There is not one protestant that is not affected by the decisions Martin Luther made..

Yet Martin Luther is not infallible and he isn't God.. So your beliefs have been affected by the decisions of men and not God..(5 solas)

Click to expand...

What about anabaptists?

Dave01 said:

It is just advise that even I am trying to heed now.

I don't have much time for those who make an argument up anymore, we already know GOD and what will happen in the end, so why worry about those who are ever learning but never coming to a knowledge of the truth.

/rant off

Click to expand...

I am not debating just to be debating.