The Explosivly Popular P.O.D.

Originally posted by supermagdalena
I'll watch for Reckless.

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Who's "Reckless"?

love in Christ,

Malcolm 

Loser: Generally, the commandment to be set apart from the world is interpreted to mean a spiritual, not physical, separation. Meaning, quite simply, that we, as Christians, should be holy. That given, I like to know your rational behind condemning P.O.D. for "looking worldly" and your other, similar attacks. Specifically, what verses and chapters place P.O.D.'s dress, song, speech, etc. in the "unholy" category.

Also, I doubt you would find many Christians, theologians or not, who would agree with equivocating "the world" with "anything not traditionally associated with dead, mainstream, cultural American Christianity". Perhaps you might find a more accurate definition, preferably supported by scripture.

Edge,

First of all, you can't make a complete separation between spiritual and physical with regard to holiness. I don't want to go into all the philosophical and theological arguments surrounding the issue, so I'll try and explain it simply.

There are rather obviously "physical" things which are not acceptable for Christians to engage in as a matter of holiness. We can't simply claim to be "spiritually" holy and then just do whatever we want. We have to draw the line somewhere. The question is where do we draw it. Do we draw it wherever it is convenient for us? Or do we draw it where God tells us to, which will certainly not be convenient to our flesh?

What is my rationale for condemning POD as a worldly band? Ummm, have you seen their website?? Have you read "The Story" section? Is there one single mention of Jesus anywhere on there?

Quite simply, they have copied the world in almost every conceivable way. They have copied the style of the world, the speech of the world, the dress of the world, the hype of the world, etc. etc. Why are they so successful? Why are they so accepted by the mainstream, secular music world (MTV, for example)? Because they are almost indistinguishable from mainstream, secular, non-Christian bands. You want Scripture? Try this.

John 15:18-19 "If the world hates you, keep in mind that it hated me first. (19) If you belonged to the world, it would love you as its own. As it is, you do not belong to the world, but I have chosen you out of the world. That is why the world hates you.

Does the world "hate" POD? Of course not. The world loves POD - they're "explosively popular!" And you wonder why they fit in the "unholy" category? Because they are "unholy" by the very definition of the word. They are not separate. They are not devoted to God. If they were, they would certainly not be as popular as they are now. They'd be about as popular as Jesus - whom most people rejected and hated and tried to kill.

Finally, I don't remember ever equivocating "the world" with "anything not traditionally associated with dead, mainstream, cultural American Christianity." Perhaps you have got mixed up with someone else's post.

love in Christ,
Malcolm

Not every Christian is rejected and scorned. Do you also think Billy Graham or Franklin Graham is not a true Christian?

Rejection and scorn is a part of the Christian life, but it is NOT always the sole proof of righteousness.

In fact there are different types of rejection and scorn, these are the ones I think we are dealing with in this discussion:

1: Persecutory over Christ. This is a proof of righteousness (not THE proof though.) This is when people are scorned or rejected for preaching the Gospel of Jesus Christ, or for referring to Him, or for doing works in His name. It usually happens to a lesser degree and is much more subtle in America and other free or semi-free countries than it is, say, in China or Saudi Arabia, because of a general atmosphere of religious tolerance which benefits Christians and nonbelievers alike.

2: Self-imposed. This is the case when people bring rejection and scorn on themselves because they try to force others to meet *their* standard. This rejection and scorn is universally identified because the issue at question is NOT a fundamental belief of Christ, but rather a personal conviction on a trivial issue. The person who recieves such rejection and scorn may be honored if he or she consistently holds onto that conviction; but commits the sin of pride and chases people away from Christ when this conviction is elevated to an issue of salvific judgment or judgment of the walk of others who profess faith in Jesus.

 

John 15:18-19 "If the world hates you, keep in mind that it hated me first. (19) If you belonged to the world, it would love you as its own. As it is, you do not belong to the world, but I have chosen you out of the world. That is why the world hates you.

Mark 13:13 All men will hate you because of me, but he who stands firm to the end will be saved.

Umm, so Jesus was only speaking to the Christians who live in China or Saudi Arabia when he said these things? Can you provide any Scripture to back up your opinion that this doesn't or shouldn't apply to all Christians equally? How, for example, do the above Scriptures hold true in your own life, since you are living in America as I am?

And, by the way, I never said that rejection and scorn was the sole proof of righteousness. However, it is certainly one of the proofs of righteousness - as it was with Jesus.

love in Christ,
Malcolm

Loser: First, assertion != proof. "POD is worldly", "their web site is worldly", etc. does not cut it. The only evidence you've shown thus far is 1. their web site doesn't mention Jesus profusely (they have an entire forum dedicated to "spiritual discussion" centered around Christianity. The level of discourse is hardly stunning, true, but the idea is there) and 2. they are not hated (a point which Susan addressed more than adequately).

Second, you continue to use "the world" to mean whatever you wish it to, in this case, whatever is "popular" according to your fairly warped census. (80% of Americans call themselves Christian. Does this mean we shouldn't?). I would highly appreciate a scriptural definition.

To illustrate an absurdity: If POD's dress is worldly, what dress is not? If, at some time in the future, every "worldly" band decided to wear "non-worldly" clothing, should all Christians with martyrdom complexes switch their wardrobe to maintain their supposed holiness? Since there is obviously no New Testament guidelines for dress (beyond not causing a brother to stumble), is the sole factor in clothing choices to be as opposite of "the world" as possible?

Originally posted by Edge
I would highly appreciate a scriptural definition.

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1 John 2:15-16  Do not love the world or anything in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. (16) For everything in the world--the cravings of sinful man, the lust of his eyes and the boasting of what he has and does--comes not from the Father but from the world.

love in Christ,

Malcolm

Hello everyone. I'm back home now and I would like to get back into this discussion. I don't know what happened to the other thread but I will read as much of this one as I can to find out what's going on...

In other words, P.O.D. are not a Christian band. Which is what I've been saying all along. Thank you.

love in Christ,
Malcolm

I might never have gotten saved had I not listened to the Beatles, so I would not be able to agree with Loser's point about P.O.D., even if it were valid.

You could just as easily say Paul might never have been saved if he hadn't persecuted the church, so I fail to see your point.

love in Christ,
Malcolm

"We were talking---about the space

between us all

And the people---who hide themselves

behind a wall of illusion

Never glimpse the truth---then it's far

too late---when they pass away."

~George Harrison

 

Loser, I KNOW that God wanted me to know Him at the earliest possible time in my life and I am fully aware of the methods He used to guide me to Him. This Beatles song is only one of many examples.

You are just arguing theology, I think. I hope I'm mistaken, though.