Where in the Law does it say women should be silent??

Floatingaxe said:

You need to study up on Phoebe, the pastor of the church in Cenchrea. There are others.

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Romans 16:1,2 I commend unto you Phoebe our sister, which is a servant of the church which is at Cenchrea:

v2 That ye receive her in the Lord, as becometh saints, and that ye assist her in whatsoever business she hath need of you: for she hath been a succourer of many, and myself also.

I personally don't see in this scripture where Paul indicates Phoebe is a Pastor.

Most commonly...these verses are interpreted that Phoebe was a deaconess.

c. Servant is the same word translated deacon in other places. Phoebe seems to be a female deacon in the church, either through formal recognition or through her general service.

i. Bible translators have a habit of translating the ancient Greek word diakonon as “deacon” when it speaks of men and “servant” when it speaks of women...commentary by David Guznik

She was a deaconess. Cenchrea was the port of the city of Corinth. She, no doubt, met Paul when he was ministering there in Corinth, but was serving there in the church. And some of those male chauvinists seem to have a little difficulty with this that she was there as a servant in the church...commentary by Chuck Smith

Phoebe (Koine Greek Φοίβη) was a Christian woman mentioned by the Apostle Paul in Romans 16:1.
This verse has been interpreted as stating that she was a deaconess of the early Christian church located in Cenchrea, an eastern port of Corinth.[citation needed]
The Greek of Romans 16:2 uses the term prostatis which may indicate that she was Paul's patroness[1]...As noted in Wikipedia

A deacon would be someone who would serve in worship, in pastoral care, and on administrative committees and such but would still be subordinate to the pastor

Cris413 said:

Romans 16:1,2 I commend unto you Phoebe our sister, which is a servant of the church which is at Cenchrea:

v2 That ye receive her in the Lord, as becometh saints, and that ye assist her in whatsoever business she hath need of you: for she hath been a succourer of many, and myself also.

I personally don't see in this scripture where Paul indicates Phoebe is a Pastor.

Most commonly...these verses are interpreted that Phoebe was a deaconess.

c. Servant is the same word translated deacon in other places. Phoebe seems to be a female deacon in the church, either through formal recognition or through her general service.

i. Bible translators have a habit of translating the ancient Greek word diakonon as “deacon” when it speaks of men and “servant” when it speaks of women...commentary by David Guznik

She was a deaconess. Cenchrea was the port of the city of Corinth. She, no doubt, met Paul when he was ministering there in Corinth, but was serving there in the church. And some of those male chauvinists seem to have a little difficulty with this that she was there as a servant in the church...commentary by Chuck Smith

Phoebe (Koine Greek Φοίβη) was a Christian woman mentioned by the Apostle Paul in Romans 16:1.
This verse has been interpreted as stating that she was a deaconess of the early Christian church located in Cenchrea, an eastern port of Corinth.[citation needed]
The Greek of Romans 16:2 uses the term prostatis which may indicate that she was Paul's patroness[1]...As noted in Wikipedia

A deacon would be someone who would serve in worship, in pastoral care, and on administrative committees and such but would still be subordinate to the pastor

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David Guznik is correct! The meaning is "servant-leader", which is what a pastor is. When the translators came across the word "diakonos" in reference to a man, they invariably translated it as "pastor", but when confronted with Phoebe, a woman, they allowed their own personal bias to interfere and translated it as merely, "servant"

Floatingaxe said:

David Guznik is correct! The meaning is "servant-leader", which is what a pastor is. When the translators came across the word "diakonos" in reference to a man, they invariably translated it as "pastor", but when confronted with Phoebe, a woman, they allowed their own personal bias to interfere and translated it as merely, "servant"

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There is no doubt most interpretations are she was in leadership...as a deaconess as stated by David Guznik, Chuck Smith and others.

I personally think women have a place in leadership...but I still see no evidence of Phoebe as the "pastor" of the church at Cenchrea.

The KJV notes the word servant as "deaconess" to me suggesting although she was in leadership...she was still subordinate to a higher position of leadership in the church.

This, however, is not an important point of argument IMO whether her title is pastor, deaconess, servant or such.

The importance of these verses is to note that Phoebe was a willing and useful servant of God and that women who are in service should be received as servants of God...(whether men like it or not)

Romans 16:2 That ye receive her in the Lord as becometh saints, and that ye assist her in whatsoever business she hath need of you: she hath been a succourer of many, and of myself also.

God has blessed us with many wonderful examples of women dedicated to serving the Lord...awesome!

Ruth is one of my favorite examples of the humble heart of a faithful servant...She was not a pastor nor a deaconess or in any form of leadership. She wasn't even a Jew, she was a Gentile.

I think we start to get into a bit of trouble when we start to focus on the position (pride issues) rather than the passion of the heart of a servant...men or women.

Cris413 said:

There is no doubt most interpretations are she was in leadership...as a deaconess as stated by David Guznik, Chuck Smith and others.

I personally think women have a place in leadership...but I still see no evidence of Phoebe as the "pastor" of the church at Cenchrea.

The KJV notes the word servant as "deaconess" to me suggesting although she was in leadership...she was still subordinate to a higher position of leadership in the church.

This, however, is not an important point of argument IMO whether her title is pastor, deaconess, servant or such.

The importance of these verses is to note that Phoebe was a willing and useful servant of God and that women who are in service should be received as servants of God...(whether men like it or not)

Romans 16:2 That ye receive her in the Lord as becometh saints, and that ye assist her in whatsoever business she hath need of you: she hath been a succourer of many, and of myself also.

God has blessed us with many wonderful examples of women dedicated to serving the Lord...awesome!

Ruth is one of my favorite examples of the humble heart of a faithful servant...She was not a pastor nor a deaconess or in any form of leadership. She wasn't even a Jew, she was a Gentile.

I think we start to get into a bit of trouble when we start to focus on the position (pride issues) rather than the passion of the heart of a servant...men or women.

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You are right, of course, but with all the tearing away of women's understood roles in the Church, it does tend to boil down to this type of discussion. You try to wrench away something that is rightfully yours under God, you will get opposition. Sad, isn't it?

Floatingaxe said:

You are right, of course, but with all the tearing away of women's understood roles in the Church, it does tend to boil down to this type of discussion. You try to wrench away something that is rightfully yours under God, you will get opposition. Sad, isn't it?

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I'm not certain I understand what you're saying sister...

My personal thoughts are...no one can take anything away from anyone whom God has equiped and called according to His good will and purpose.

Cris413 said:

I'm not certain I understand what you're saying sister...

My personal thoughts are...no one can take anything away from anyone whom God has equiped and called according to His good will and purpose.

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Right! But you must see how many in the Church have put a lid on women's service to God. We certainly see it in the opinions expressed here!

Through centuries of misogyny, women have been denied, the result being that half of the workforce of Jesus Christ has been held back, and the kingdom slowed in coming.

I should think that with the coming revival, that will all be changed! Hallelujah!

Floatingaxe said:

Right! But you must see how many in the Church have put a lid on women's service to God. We certainly see it in the opinions expressed here!

Through centuries of mysogyny, women have been denied, the result being that half of the workforce of Jesus Christ has been held back, and the kingdom slowed in coming.

I should think that with the coming revival, that will all be changed! Hallelujah!

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I will agree...opinions are not always correct. Things done and opinions formed in the flesh or worldly manner are not being done according to God's will...but it's kinda hard for me to consider that anything we do or do not do...will hinder God even one little bit.

The Kingdom will come in His perfect timing...according to His awesome righteousness, power and glory. He doesn't need us.

I have met some awesome women of God...mostly standing side by side with their husbands in positions of leadership...I believe these women were called by God into their own places of leadership regardless of their husbands.

I have also met some women who dismantled the church as they strived for leadership because they "thought" they had authority...be it vicariously through the leadership of their husbands or in their own ministries...

Every anointed Pastor I've met...will give the glory to God and is generous in noting the value of the ministries and service of the women in the church.

The heart of a servant...serves...no matter in what capacity...we all serve the Lord and no one can hinder what God has purposed.

God bless you sister...

Galatians 3:22- But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

v23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.

v24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

v25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

v26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus

v27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

v28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

v29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed and heirs according to the promise

Carlos...a couple thoughts here...

First...Paul did not teach women do not have the ability to prophesy and exercise spiritual gifts.

Women as well as men have been given spiritual and prophetic gifts. The Bible does not assign rigid social or church roles to men and women, but it does place headship and authority in husbands as an abiding principle...it is inappropriate for a wife to issue doctrinal commands or biblical teaching in a domineering manner...embarrassing her husband in public.

These principles are throughout the NT, however, one would be sadly mistaken to consider that women can not be anointed and used by God.

The examples of Phoebe and Priscilla in the NT are undeniable in that these women were in ministry in the church. Anointed servants of God.

As God's word does not contradict itself...my suggestion would be to take all Scripture into your heart rather than focus on one verse such as 1 Corinthians 14:32 in an absolute and literal sense when other Scripture clearly states that women have spiritual gifts, pray, prophesy and worship in church.

1 Corinthians 12:1- Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I do not want you to be ignorant:

v2 you know that you were Gentiles, carried away to these dumb idols, however you were led.

v3 Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God calls Jesus accursed, and no one can say that Jesus is Lord except by the Holy Spirit.

v4 There are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.

v5 There are differences of ministries, but the same Lord

v6 And there are diversities of activities, but it is the same God who works all in all.

v7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to each one for the profit of all.

v8 for to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, to another the word of knowledge through the same Spirit

v9 to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by the same Spirit.

v10 to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another discerning of spirits, to another different kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues

v11 But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually as He wills.

Secondly...to focus on a portion of Scripture without taking the whole of Scripture to heart is what causes division and discord in the body....this is one of the enemy's favorite tools...

Ephesians 4:1 I, therefore the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you to walk worthy of the calling with which you were called.

v2 with all lowliness and gentleness, with longsuffering, bearing with one another in love

v3 endeavoring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.

v4 There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called in one hope of your calling;

v5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism;

v6 one God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all

I encourage continued reading regarding the gifts of the Lord...it's interesting in:

v11 And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists and some pastors and teachers.

Noteworthy: Paul does not say some pastors and "some" teachers...noting that pastor and teacher could go hand in hand....

The point is, Carlos, God calls, equips and gifts ALL believers and followers of Christ Jesus according to His good will and purpose for His glory.

If you do not receive this...you simply do not receive it...I will not argue about it.

Cris413 said:

There is no doubt most interpretations are she was in leadership...as a deaconess as stated by David Guznik, Chuck Smith and others.

I personally think women have a place in leadership...but I still see no evidence of Phoebe as the "pastor" of the church at Cenchrea.

The KJV notes the word servant as "deaconess" to me suggesting although she was in leadership...she was still subordinate to a higher position of leadership in the church.

This, however, is not an important point of argument IMO whether her title is pastor, deaconess, servant or such.

The importance of these verses is to note that Phoebe was a willing and useful servant of God and that women who are in service should be received as servants of God...(whether men like it or not)

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The issue is even more sticky than just debating whether women can hold the head position of "pastor". Regardless your position on that, as has been pointed out, it is clear that women did serve a leadership role in the church. But what disturbs me in today's churches is that take the "silent women" stance so far as to say that they can only teach/lead other women as if to say that men have absolutely nothing to learn from a woman.

JTLauder said:

The issue is even more sticky than just debating whether women can hold the head position of "pastor". Regardless your position on that, as has been pointed out, it is clear that women did serve a leadership role in the church. But what disturbs me in today's churches is that take the "silent women" stance so far as to say that they can only teach/lead other women as if to say that men have absolutely nothing to learn from a woman.

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Amen!

Women of God do not necessarily strive for position in the Church, but rather seek God's leading and gifting, just as the men do. God is the One who does the promoting. Women are already pastors, albeit not many are lead pastors. I pastor. Pastoring is shepherding, succouring. In fact, we are all called to pastor!

carlos123 said:

OBJECTION: Galatians 3:28 says that there is neither male or female and that we are all one in Christ so presumably a woman can therefore do anything and everything a man can do including the act of speaking out in church assemblies.

The verse says this...

In context this verse is talking about us being one with Christ through the gospel. God does not show favoritism in blessing us with forgiveness. Rather he impartially blesses all, whether bond or free; Jew or Greek; male or female through the gospel.

We are all His children through faith in Christ Jesus. Just as a Father does not, or should not, show favoritism to one child over another one because one is skinnier than another, or taller than another, neither does God as our Father show favoritism to us based on distinctions such as race (Jew or Greek), gender (male or female), or status in life (bond or free).

But this truth does NOT invalidate the fact that there are Jews and that there are Greeks. That there are males and females. And that some, at least at the time Paul wrote this, were bond and some others free.

Nor does it contradict or otherwise negate verses in the rest of the New Testament that speak of a different role for men and women in the church.

Carlos

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Carlos... the referrence was to spiritual gifts and that women can be anointed and used by God according to His good will and purpose....just as He uses men. Please note:

Galatians 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

...no presumptions were made. If you read the entire chapter...the understanding would be more in context regarding the law and the promises of God...rather than preferential treatment by God. Was not your OP "where in the law does it say women should be silent"? This particular Scripture should have even more significance to the OP.

And...if I'm not mistaken...are you not the one who chooses to take each verse individually, according to the absolute literal meaning? To consider this verse pertains to fat or skinny or tall or short...is that not an "assumption"? A little continuity would be helpful.

Again...you choose to see only that which you choose to see...

The fullness of Scripture...taken in context does by no means teach that women can not nor should not prophesy, pray, worship and speak etc...in church... I'm sure God fully understands His creations, both male and female and calls and gifts each according to His purpose.

No one...male nor female should be "speaking out" in church in a disruptive manner. Particularly married women who should be submissive to the spiritual leadership of their husbands.

Peace

Cris413 said:

Carlos... the referrence was to spiritual gifts and that women can be anointed and used by God according to His good will and purpose....just as He uses men. Please note:

Galatians 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

...no presumptions were made. If you read the entire chapter...the understanding would be more in context regarding the law and the promises of God...rather than preferential treatment by God. Was not your OP "where in the law does it say women should be silent"? This particular Scripture should have even more significance to the OP.

And...if I'm not mistaken...are you not the one who chooses to take each verse individually, according to the absolute literal meaning? To consider this verse pertains to fat or skinny or tall or short...is that not an "assumption"? A little continuity would be helpful.

Again...you choose to see only that which you choose to see...

The fullness of Scripture...taken in context does by no means teach that women can not nor should not prophesy, pray, worship and speak etc...in church... I'm sure God fully understands His creations, both male and female and calls and gifts each according to His purpose.

No one...male nor female should be "speaking out" in church in a disruptive manner. Particularly married women who should be submissive to the spiritual leadership of their husbands.

Peace

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What about the part of the bible that says woman was created for man, that man was not created for woman.....and helpmate and all that stuff. You all know where it is.

I think that God did not intend for His creation to stand still in that spot. He gave us brains to learn and invent and grow toward His perfection, certainly not to achieve it here on this earth but to always be striving toward it. In so doing we evolve and grow and no one should force God's creation to stay in its infancy with infancy rules. If we were meant to stay as we were 2000 years ago, God would not have given us the ability to learn and grow. The rules have to evolve with the creation, the same as with our own children. You don't put a 16 year old child to bed at 8 p.m. to get proper rest.

Men and women are still men and women, with a whole new playgroune, a whole new set of circumstances and the rules have to fit the times, not different rules....just flexible. Some rules are black and white, some are a bit flexible and some more flexible. If it we not so, we would be God's little robots. Women have learned, earned the right to speak, to be heard. Just like men, sometimes they talk trash and nobody listens. Other times just like men, women are incredibly wise with their words and manner. I don't think God wants that wasted.

freyajem said:

What about the part of the bible that says woman was created for man, that man was not created for woman.....and helpmate and all that stuff. You all know where it is.

I think that God did not intend for His creation to stand still in that spot. He gave us brains to learn and invent and grow toward His perfection, certainly not to achieve it here on this earth but to always be striving toward it. In so doing we evolve and grow and no one should force God's creation to stay in its infancy with infancy rules. If we were meant to stay as we were 2000 years ago, God would not have given us the ability to learn and grow. The rules have to evolve with the creation, the same as with our own children. You don't put a 16 year old child to bed at 8 p.m. to get proper rest.

Men and women are still men and women, with a whole new playgroune, a whole new set of circumstances and the rules have to fit the times, not different rules....just flexible. Some rules are black and white, some are a bit flexible and some more flexible. If it we not so, we would be God's little robots. Women have learned, earned the right to speak, to be heard. Just like men, sometimes they talk trash and nobody listens. Other times just like men, women are incredibly wise with their words and manner. I don't think God wants that wasted.

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We have choices...we can choose to follow the word of God which is eternal...or we can choose to follow society as it changes.

None of us...IMO...have "earned" anything in God's economy.

What we deserve is the penalty of our sin. Praise God in His mercy belivers in Christ Jesus don't get what we deserve.

What we are gifted is the saving grace through Christ Jesus.

Nothing in this world belongs to us. Everything belongs to Him...including our very lives.

We can live our lives pleasing to Him according to His word...or not.

That would be between each of us and God.

I totally agree...we should never waste the gifts of the Spirit or waste our time here in fruitless effort in our own strength but in all we do...do it to the glory of God.

Cris413 said:

We have choices...we can choose to follow the word of God which is eternal...or we can choose to follow society as it changes.

None of us...IMO...have "earned" anything in God's economy.

What we deserve is the penalty of our sin. Praise God in His mercy belivers in Christ Jesus don't get what we deserve.

What we are gifted is the saving grace through Christ Jesus.

Nothing in this world belongs to us. Everything belongs to Him...including our very lives.

We can live our lives pleasing to Him according to His word...or not.

That would be between each of us and God.

I totally agree...we should never waste the gifts of the Spirit or waste our time here in fruitless effort in our own strength but in all we do...do it to the glory of God.

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LOL......did I say we weren't doing it to the glory of God.

Did I say we earned anything? No

First you say we have to do exactly as in the bible and then you say you agree that we can't waste the gifts that women have now.

Best make up your mind.

Freyajem,

Perhaps...you may want to consider a second reading...

Great thing about the written word...you can read it again.

If you don't agree with my thoughts...that's fine...but please try to keep the context

Cris413 said:

Freyajem,

Perhaps...you may want to consider a second reading...

Great thing about the written word...you can read it again.

If you don't agree with my thoughts...that's fine...but please try to keep the context

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I read.

As far as I am concerned, I am following the context.

You say we need to follow the bible as it says and it is very clear as to women married, single and widowed....God's plan for them, what they are and are not to do. And yet you advocate women doing all the things they bibe says not to do, and the other way around.

We can follow the bible or women can continue to do whatever they want against what the bible says. Not both. I am told that I must do this, that and more according to the bible by women going against the bible.

I am finding this sort of thing more and more as I read through threads in here. Like do as I say not do as I do.

freyajem said:

<snip>
Men and women are still men and women, with a whole new playgroune, a whole new set of circumstances and the rules have to fit the times, not different rules....just flexible. Some rules are black and white, some are a bit flexible and some more flexible. If it we not so, we would be God's little robots. <snip>

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I apologize if my thoughts were not clear. Please allow me to expound a bit further...

Your post suggested to me that we need to change with the times. We need to understand which of Gods precepts and ordinences we follow to the letter and which we need to bend..and which we need to contort. (black and white, flexible & more flexible) Your quote:

"The rules have to evolve with the creation"

Suggested to me that your thoughts are as we "evolve as believers" we need to, by our intellect and understanding of societal changes, take the words of God and "evolve" them to fit into our current society or we are God's little robots.

My thoughts regarding such ideology is:

Cris413 said:

We have choices...we can choose to follow the word of God which is eternal...or we can choose to follow society as it changes.<snip>

Nothing in this world belongs to us. Everything belongs to Him...including our very lives.

We can live our lives pleasing to Him according to His word...or not.

That would be between each of us and God.

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Meaning we are not God's little robots...we all have choices. All God's creation has the choice to accept Jesus Christ as our Lord and Savior...to follow Him or not. As believers...we have the choice to obey His word or not...we can step outside of the Spirit at anytime and return to living our lives in the flesh rather than living in the Spirit.

(by making a choice to live outside the Spirit....this is where some would suggest one can lose their salvation. I personally believe OSAS and in making this choice we become liken to the prodigal son...living outside our Fathers will for us and by doing so...we suffer at the hands of the world and our lives no longer bring Him glory and honor. (ie: waste of time) Of note: I also believe the Good Shepherd will bring us back to the fold if we wander off...Nothing can pluck us from His hand) - small print indicates being off topic...not of less importance

God's word is eternal. His word does not change as the world's perception of society changes.

As we grow and mature in the Spirit...if anything...the more we, as believers, desire to keep God's word and follow His precepts and ordinances to bring Him glory and honor.

Ecclesiastes is an excellent teaching regarding the "perception" of the changing world:

Ecc 1:9 That which has been is what will be, That which is done is what will be done, And there is nothing new under the sun.

v10 Is there anything of which it may be said "See, this is new"? It has already been in ancient times before us.

(Everything for the most part, all we see in life has been done and tried before. Things may seem different and new but life is the same old game only with new players.

Yes people will argue regarding technology and such but people basically act the same as people centuries before. Fashion changes, political leaders rise and fall, laws change, we all toil under the sun...some people become rich, some beomce poor, we chase after pleasure, get married, have children and die...it just keeps going round and round and round)

Cris413 said:

I totally agree...we should never waste the gifts of the Spirit or waste our time here in fruitless effort in our own strength but in all we do...do it to the glory of God.

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Perhaps I could have more clear with this statement by saying:

Those of us who have accepted Jesus Christ as our Lord and Savior and who chose to live by the Spirit... should never waste the gifts of the Spirit as God calls and equips us for His good will and purpose. Not wasting our time as we walk through this world...as we are not of the world. We should not walk in our own strength and understanding but according to His word to bring Him all the glory, honor and praise.

I think I understand where I may have been unclear to the reader...in saying "We can live our lives pleasing to Him according to His word...or not"

Meaning: Each of us have that choice (we are not little robots) and the choices we make are between the individual and God....not between you and me.

Our relationship with Him is between the Creator and the creation according to His good will and purpose.

I by no means intended to suggest that if we make the choice not to... that was just fine and dandy.

There are some things...I simply take for granted as being an absolute understanding between believers. My mistake and my apologies that I was not more explicit...

Cris413 said:

Meaning we are not God's little robots...we all have choices. All God's creation has the choice to accept Jesus Christ as our Lord and Savior...to follow Him or not. As believers...we have the choice to obey His word or not...we can step outside of the Spirit at anytime and return to living our lives in the flesh rather than living in the Spirit.

(by making a choice to live outside the Spirit....this is where some would suggest one can lose their salvation. I personally believe OSAS and in making this choice we become liken to the prodigal son...living outside our Fathers will for us and by doing so...we suffer at the hands of the world and our lives no longer bring Him glory and honor. (ie: waste of time) Of note: I also believe the Good Shepherd will bring us back to the fold if we wander off...Nothing can pluck us from His hand) - small print indicates being off topic...not of less importance


Ecc 1:9 That which has been is what will be, That which is done is what will be done, And there is nothing new under the sun.

...

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No need to apologize. I don't get the "we follow God.....or not. And we live in the spirit.....or 'in the flesh'. We all live in the flesh. We are flesh. We cannot deny what we are. If we have to deny totally what we are in order to follow God, live in the spirit, then we are robots. For the choice is black and white and we are grey faulted flesh and blood people.

Live in the spirit or "live in the flesh" sounds like no sinning or go to hell, and I know we all sin. I do both, the same as we all do.

WOW...totally off topic.

Back on topic....

the bible is clear as to how women should be, are expected to be, commanded to be. Women are not following those commands(most women)in the bible but are telling me that I have to follow the bible word for word. The two don't mix.

If women are going to say to follow the bible word for word then they need to keep their own advice. And reading your reply, I would guess that you are not one of those women saying follow the bible word for word.