corporal punishment

I got swatted, paddled, and slapped as a child, and I certainly do not think that any of it did me the slightest bit of harm. There is absolutely no doubt that I deserved every bit of it.

I was only actually struck once, and that's when I was 17 years old. I was working on my car, and my father (a WWII combat vet who did not suffer a fool gladly) asked me to do something. I said, "Yeah, just as soon as I get this done." Dad said, "I asked you to do something." (Which, of course, made me mad.) I half turned around with the typical adolescent sneer on my face and said (rather too loudly), "Yeah, just as soon....!!!"

I got about that far before his fist connected with my jaw. I layed there on the ground watching the little birdies go around, and he said, "Now you get your a** up off the ground and you go do what I told you to do."

And I said, "Yes, Dad, I'm on my way."

There is utterly no doubt whatsoever in my mind that I deserved that one, too.

God bless Dad. I sure wish he was still alive.

This evening I asked my five year old to pick up his toys and he complained that he was "too tired" ... so I immediately said, "That's fine, if you're too tired then you need to stay home from school tomorrow so you can stay in bed and get your rest."

"But I don't want to do that! I want to go to school"

"Well, I know you do, but if you're too tired to listen to mommy and pick up your toys then you need to stay home and stay in the bed so you can rest."

No comment ... he's too busy picking up his toys.

I know what he likes (chocolate milk, a piece of candy out of his "stash", a favorite show) and I use it to my advantage ... it builds on the reality of real life "consequences" ... and it works.

I was spanked as a young child, but eventually all my dad had to do was put his hands on his belt and we knew he meant business and we better stop clowning around and listen to him.

I'm not saying you can't swat your child's hand when he/she is reaching for something dangerous or precious ... but if they are too young to listen and you've swat their hand five times, then move the object or the child and try another tactic. And, I'm not saying you can't spank a child, but spanking should be a last resort ... after you've warned the child, followed through on the warning and disciplined the child in a non-physical way (i.e. time out, go to your room, no tv, no dessert etc)

And, VOW - I know where you're coming from - my 15 year old and I barely saw eye-to-eye before he continued to sprout up past my hairline.

His punishments fall into various consequences such as not being able to talk on the phone, or visit friends and a reduced allowance (i.e. 50 cents for every time the cat box isn't done, and as much as $2 if the trash toter isn't brought back into the yard after the trash has been picked up).

It works - for our family.

Yes, every kid that says -I'll do it later deserves to be floored by his fathers fist...... That is a childhood that every child deserves, and needs.

I was far from being a child, Cornelius. I was 17 years old (nearly 18), was six feet tall and weighed 160 pounds.

What was he supposed to do, give me a "time out"?

To Cornelius:

You have to understand the circumstances surrounding the incident Wols described. You have no idea what had been going on in that house before hand!

Now, I could see a similar situation in my home, easily. Perhaps my son had been told numerous times to do some household chore, one that he has been assigned since the beginning of time. A parent gets exasperated when a child is supposed to do something, yet needs to be "reminded" that the chore hasn't been done.

For instance: one of my son's assigned chores is to empty the dishwasher. Now, if an adult had such a chore assigned, he would walk into the house after school (or work) and immediately open the dishwasher to see if it needed to be emptied. Most people would want to get the chore DONE AND OUT OF THE WAY so they could go do whatever they wanted to do.

My son, upon entering the house will typically: dump his stuff in the living room, get something to eat, take off his shoes and socks in the living room, leave his dirty dishes and trash in the living room, and then crawl back to his bedroom to either use the computer or fall asleep.

I come home from work, and immediately after walking in the door, I'm asked by everyone, "What's for dinner?" I look around and see food left out of the refrigerator, the bread bag still opened, *fertilizer* in the living room, shoes and dirty socks right where I'll trip over them, and then I'll open the dishwasher and see all those nice, clean dishes that haven't been put away. I'll head on to the kid's bedroom, fire in my eyes, and say, "You didn't empty the dishwasher."

His answer will be, "I didn't know it needed to be emptied."

The conversation will become less controlled. I'll tell him to empty it NOW.

He'll most likely say, "I'm right in the middle of downloading, I'll do it in a minute."

Rewind to the Wolseley household, fifty years ago (LOL):

Perhaps Dad Wolseley had been hearing "in a minute" from Young Wolseley all weekend. Perhaps Mom Wolseley had been telling Dad Wolseley that Young Wolseley hadn't done SQUAT of any of the things she had needed him to do.

No, Dad Wolseley definitely didn't handle the situation in the best way possible. But Cornelius, parents are HUMAN, and teenaged boys try the patience of God Himself.

A bust in the chops certainly puts emphasis in the directive, "Do it NOW."


Peace,
~VOW

Well said, VOW - unfortunately today's kids are taught that if their parent touches them they can call the police ... I won't deny there are times when some children need to be "touched" in a way that will "speak their language" KWIM

Your son's walk through the door sounds so familiar LOL

Mine walks through the door, dumps backpack, kicks off shoes, grabs a snack (usually pretzels and half the container of mustard), and heads for the couch to watch SpongeBob  I give him about a half hour or so of this "unwinding" before I start reminding him of things that need to be done.

Oh ... and what Wols went through ... keep in mind that there were times when God had to "zap" an insolent child to get them motivated.

I DO NOT in any way shape or from think it is OK to allow a teacher to administer coporal punishment. As far as spanking at home, I personally do not care what any "studies" have found. As with all things, you must pray and study and meditate on the Word and allow God to reveal the truth to you. In my home we spank. Not often but when it is needed it is administered. It is used mostly for outright defiance...where the child decides to pit their will against yours and refuses to give in. On other offenses, it depends on the child. You can spank my son till the cows come home and he will just look at you like your an idiot. On the other hand...one little swat on the but for my daughter and she won't do anything even close to being out of line for a month. Bottom line is that each person must seek the Lord's will for their family and situation.

In His Service,

Sandy

Ok, so he was 17 years old. allmost an adult. Yes, discussions get heated but what if the 17 year old thaught he needed to smack his parents? That would not be a situation that any person would want, but still the kids have to live with the threat of being spanked if they don't do as they are told.

If my father or mother had ever layd hand on me I would never been able to forgive them. I didn't want to do bad stuff because if I did they would get hurt and dissepointed. And that is much worse (but more civilised) than a beating. And I allso learned how to appologise that way and really mean it.
I just think it's very wrong.

To Cornelius:

We didn't say it was RIGHT.

What we said was, it's UNDERSTANDABLE. Wolseley can look back at the incident now, and see the situation through his father's eyes. And he truly UNDERSTANDS what his father was going through.

The moral of the story is this: Even though a kid-almost-an-adult is younger, faster, perhaps even stronger than the parent, the kid still owes his parent respect. In Wolseley's story, parental respect was lacking. The confrontation with his father was not something that descended out of the clear blue sky.

The bottom line is parental respect. And that's in the Ten Commandments. That commandment says, "Honor thy father and thy mother," not "make sure your parents protect your civil rights."


Peace,
~VOW

unfortunately today's kids are taught that if their parent touches them they can call the police ...

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My cousin's oldest (13 at that time) tried that once. He got slapped across the face for calling his mother a not very nice name, and threatened to call the police on his parents. My cousin came down with the kid's bag packed, tossed it in the back of the truck, and told his son to get in. When the kid asked why, his dad told him he was going to take him to the police station and drop him off. They could make arrangements for a foster home from there. He also reminded the kid that he could not take his GameBoy, his computer, all his clothes, and his dog, along with him.

The kid changed his mind rather hurriedly.

Originally posted by VOW
To Cornelius:
The bottom line is parental respect. And that's in the Ten Commandments. That commandment says, "Honor thy father and thy mother," not "make sure your parents protect your civil rights."

Peace,
~VOW

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Who else can you count on to protect your civil rights?

I think parents should earn their respect like anyone else. I would never respect someone who spanked me and I would have even less respect for someone who would let my teachers spank me.

To Cornelius:

Spanking or no.....parents don't "earn" respect from their children. They are ENTITLED to it, automatically.

That's from the Ten Commandments!

Your parents are responsible for giving you LIFE. For that reason ALONE, you owe them your everlasting respect. Life is the most precious gift of all. You are not required to LIKE your parents, or even love them. I understand that some people are not fit to be parents, and have done abominable things to their children. But the simple fact that they ARE your parents, you OWE them that respect.

You of course, are free to disagree.


Peace,
~VOW

Originally posted by Cornelius
 

Who else can you count on to protect your civil rights?

I think parents should earn their respect like anyone else. I would never respect someone who spanked me and I would have even less respect for someone who would let my teachers spank me.

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 I respect and love my parents for the punishment that was brought upon me, which I earned. Because of that I am a better person, because it was Gods way of teaching me through them.

I am adopted. Giving life alone does not constitute parenthood. I do not owe those people the respect I give my parents, simply because they gave me my DNA. I respect my parents because they are kind and loving and honestly did their best to raise me. And I don't think I turned out too badly.

To Loki:

I agree, the people who adopted you ARE your parents. But I do believe your "DNA donors" deserve a measure of respect as well. With all the controversy over abortion these days, it takes an incredible amount of courage to carry a baby to term and relinquish that child for adoption.


Peace be with you,
~VOW

Mel:

Take it to the school immediately. Verbal intimidation is just as bad as physical intimidation, and Mister Muscles has to learn that he's terrorizing the kids.

I have a daughter who was freaked out in middle school PE, because the STUPID teacher made the slow kids run extra laps. My daughter would actually CRY Sunday night, dreading Monday. I went to the school and told the teacher to lay off the kids.

Some kids are bright in math. If you have a child who has difficulty with math, you don't bully the kid. And that's what happens in some of these PE classes. Don't tolerate it.


Peace,
~VOW

What has the forum got to say about the disciplinary advice given by Dr James Dobson? He talks about discipline with love and only using spanking after time out or talking has not worked, also followed by a loving environment and an understanding that the act was not tolerated or approved of, the person is still loved and wanted.

Comments please.

Here's the deal. It really doesn't matter as long as there is SOME form of discipline. We went to church with some folks who NEVER disciplined their children in any form. They had a son who found it hilarious to go around kicking the men in the church in the groin. I thought it a pity that the men in the church had to discipline this child (not physically) rather than his own parents. The church I attend with my husband has a mother like that. Her kids scream during prayers, they talk during the whole service, and they stand up in the pews during the sermon. They are way out of line, and the mother will sit and go "Shh....shh....." Again, SOME form of discipline. I will choose to spank. If you don't; great, but make sure there's some form of discipline.