Religious Freedom or Bias?

LovesTruth · Apr 30, 2007

Religious Freedom or Bias?

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Geneva College, a Christian college in Pennsylvania, is suing the state for refusing to include its jobs — which have religious requirements — in a database of available positions.

“The thrust of it is the idea that the First Amendment provides the right of religious employers to hire people that share their religious beliefs. In this case, the state and the federal government are trying to coerce religious employers like Geneva College to forgo that right in order to participate in this job placement program,” said Timothy Tracey, a lawyer for the Center for Law & Religious Freedom.

The case surrounds Pennsylvania’s administration of the federal Workforce Investment Act of 1998, which funds and assists state efforts to provide employment and job training services. The act includes a stipulation that programs receiving federal assistance must comply with a nondiscrimination provision that expressly prohibits religious discrimination and does not exempt religious institutions.

http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2006/12/20/geneva</H1>

And here is today's update 4/27/2007:

Victory for faith-based organizations to exercise religious hiring rights

Federal and state government concede in First Amendment lawsuit filed by ADF and CLS attorneys

PITTSBURGH — The federal government and the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania agreed Thursday to permit Geneva College and the Association of Faith-Based Organizations to use government-funded job placement services. Attorneys with the Christian Legal Society and Alliance Defense Fund brought a lawsuit against federal and state officials after Geneva and AFBO were denied access to Pennsylvania’s job placement services, funded by the federal government.

“The right of a religious organization to align itself with individuals of shared belief is as central to that organization’s mission as other viewpoints are to non-religious organizations. Religious job requirements can’t be singled out for exclusion from a public job listing simply because they are religious,” said Timothy J. Tracey, litigation counsel for CLS’s Center for Law & Religious Freedom. “We’re very pleased that the federal government and Pennsylvania are recognizing the constitutional right of religious organizations to hire employees that share their beliefs and values.”

Geneva College and AFBO’s members were denied access to post employment opportunities because of a governmental “nondiscrimination policy” prohibiting the listing of religious staffing requirements. But the federal government and the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania have now conceded that the policy did not apply to Geneva College or AFBO’s members, and they will no longer be prohibited from posting job listings.

http://alliancedefensefund.org/news/story.aspx?cid=4105

LovesTruth · Apr 30, 2007

This is a very important victory for two reasons.

Firstly, anti-Christian and other anti-faith bigots could have expanded a defeat for the religious school to include almost all government benefits and services.

Secondly, this lets the wind out of the sails for similar cases in CA in which the state is trying to force religious and homeschool and Christian groups to endorse the homosexual agenda. This agreement will make it harder for other judges to rule wrong in the future by putting the imprimatur of the federal government squarely on the side of religious freedom... including the very important right of churches to discriminate in hiring against those who don't agree with their faith or with their religiously-based lifestyle and morality. Amen!

Blackness · Apr 30, 2007

You complain about bias anti-religious stuff but yet you want the religion in control. Am I correct?

crazyfingers · Apr 30, 2007

The funny thing is that LovesTruth has already previously said that people who don't believe in a deity can be discriminated against by the government.

In this case, he wants the government to help when a private organization wants to use religion to discriminate in hiring.

CaDan · Apr 30, 2007

So I had a look at the stip of dismissal.

Clever pleading on the part of ADF to sue the US Dept. of Labor. Like the Bush Administration is really gonna put up a fight on this one.

Foolish_Fool · May 1, 2007

If the shoe were on the other foot, you would be crying bloody murder. If we tried using government funded programs for the same reasons it would not fly. Put "Christians need not apply" in your job posting and see if the government would help you out.

Wolseley · May 1, 2007

Another thread proving that "tolerance" and "diversity" and "inclusiveness" and "multicuturalism" (on both sides) are all a load of buffalo dung.

We are really two completely separate cultures, two societies, two countries. And oil and water don't mix.

crazyfingers · May 1, 2007

Wolseley said:
Another thread proving that "tolerance" and "diversity" and "inclusiveness" and "multicuturalism" (on both sides) are all a load of buffalo dung.

Since when is it the government's job to help people to discriminate on the basis of religion when hiring people?

We are really two completely separate cultures, two societies, two countries. And oil and water don't mix.

If the religious right were to learn to behave according to the golden rule there wouldn't be a problem.

LovesTruth · May 1, 2007

Foolish_Fool said:
If the shoe were on the other foot, you would be crying bloody murder. If we tried using government funded programs for the same reasons it would not fly. Put "Christians need not apply" in your job posting and see if the government would help you out.

You could not be more wrong.

Jews have a similar right on their temple jobs. We Christians respect that, and out gov't funded job sites should provide equal access.

Civil rights laws cannot be used to force religious agnosticism upon people of devout convictions... and I celebrate the US Constitution for protecting our equal access to the job board. This is a wise decision.

Churches must always have the right to discriminate based upon their religious convictions, and that includes refusing to hire immoral people and unbelievers. The US Constitution trumps the anti-faith bais of CA and WA.

So let us continue to enjoy the right to discriminate, and also to enjoy equal access to gov't services. It has always been so in American history. And always will be.

Jacey · May 1, 2007

LovesTruth said:
So let us continue to enjoy the right to discriminate

Quoted for posterity

Foolish_Fool · May 1, 2007

LovesTruth said:
You could not be more wrong.

Jews have a similar right on their temple jobs. We Christians respect that, and out gov't funded job sites should provide equal access.

Civil rights laws cannot be used to force religious agnosticism upon people of devout convictions... and I celebrate the US Constitution for protecting our equal access to the job board. This is a wise decision.

Churches must always have the right to discriminate based upon their religious convictions, and that includes refusing to hire immoral people and unbelievers. The US Constitution trumps the anti-faith bais of CA and WA.

So let us continue to enjoy the right to discriminate, and also to enjoy equal access to gov't services. It has always been so in American history. And always will be.

You're right, you do have the right to discrimate. What you don't have the right to do is use public funds to do so.

Blackness · May 1, 2007

Jacey said:
Quoted for posterity

lol

LovesTruth · May 2, 2007

Foolish_Fool said:
You're right, you do have the right to discrimate. What you don't have the right to do is use public funds to do so.

Truly an irrelevant comment unrelated to this discussion.
Nobody said we were using gov't funds to discriminate.

We however DO have a right to equal access. And if we choose to discriminate in hiring, then the US Government agrees we can use their job system AND discriminate. That's the law in America!

The federal gov't and even the liberal WA state gov't agree! I like that.

JPPT1974 · May 2, 2007

If we discriminate against
Workers based on sex, color, creed,
Or religion, then that is saying something about
Us as a workplace now isn't it? :scratch:

Blackness · May 2, 2007

LovesTruth said:
Truly an irrelevant comment unrelated to this discussion.
Nobody said we were using gov't funds to discriminate.

We however DO have a right to equal access. And if we choose to discriminate in hiring, then the US Government agrees we can use their job system AND discriminate. That's the law in America!

The federal gov't and even the liberal WA state gov't agree! I like that.

Why do you wish to discriminate?

CaDan · May 2, 2007

LovesTruth said:
Truly an irrelevant comment unrelated to this discussion.
Nobody said we were using gov't funds to discriminate.

We however DO have a right to equal access. And if we choose to discriminate in hiring, then the US Government agrees we can use their job system AND discriminate. That's the law in America!

The federal gov't and even the liberal WA state gov't agree! I like that.

You are overclaiming here. Besides the fact that the settlement will have no precedential value, the situation is not as you are asserting here.

The parties agreed that Geneva was a religious institution and that the religious requirement to work there was a legitimate requirement much like that of a church.

Personally, I would rather have seen the issue fully briefed and litigated, but the Bush Administration needs every American Evangelical vote it can muster and I don't see it wanting to touch this issue. Too bad--there is an interesting interaction of conflicting federal statutes here that will have to be resolved eventually. This settlement does not do that.

Morcova · May 2, 2007

LovesTruth said:
Nobody said we were using gov't funds to discriminate.

But you are, it's a goverment database using goverment funds run by goverment employees. And you seek to use it to discriminate on religious grounds.

ACougar · May 5, 2007

ILoveIsrael said:
Why do you wish to discriminate?

Jesus certainly never associated with unbelievers and people of questionable moral character, why should Christins?

On the other hand, if a work environment is going to be oppressive to people of a differant faith it's good that they know up front.

I understand why the State initially didn't want to advertise jobs for people that descriminate based on religion, however I don't think they would be discriminating based on religion just because they advertise jobs from organizations that do.

Blackness · May 5, 2007

ACougar said:
Jesus certainly never associated with unbelievers and people of questionable moral character, why should Christins?

Tax collector?

ACougar · May 5, 2007

ILoveIsrael said:
Tax collector?

The statement was meant to remind people that Jesus didn't surround himself with religious or holy people. He made a point of surounding himself with prostitutes and tax collectors.

Religious Freedom or Bias?

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