Women Preachers and/or Deacons

LilyLamb · Sep 12, 2002

Is a woman permitted to be a Preacher according to the scriptures?

Is a woman permitted to be a Deacon according to the scriptures?

I'm not looking for your "opinion" on whether or not this is okay, I'm looking for scriptural support for either of these roles.

I know that women are perfectly capable of doing either role ...

however ... I NEED to know how women can be in these roles as supported by scripture.

  :help:

sola fide · Sep 12, 2002

If you take 1 Timothy 2:11-14 as a command made by an apostle, who was madating a decree using the authority of his postion, which I clearly believe it to be...then no they shouldn't.
Of course many modern day Christians don't take apostolic decrees that seriously, but it's definitely something that needs to be looked at.
As in other threads, many will say that there must be 2 or 3 witnesses, and that Paul's account is not sufficient. They will also argue that priscilla and other women had authority in the chruch.
But these IMPLICIT scriptures are just that, implicit. Paul makes an EXPLICIT command in 1 Timothy. I can only recomment that you take that into account.
Paul teaches that women have a role in the church, but not as leaders over the men of the congregation. Many will say that those days were different from today, but explicit commands are explicit commands.
When Paul explicitly exhorted in that same chapter that prayers, supplication, and intercession be made...he meant it...it didn't just apply to that church, it applies to us today...few people would disagree with that, but they will disagree with the same type of decree put out with him later in the chapter about women in the church. God bless.

Soli Deo gloria!

LilyLamb · Sep 12, 2002

I read the scripture in I Timonthy 2 about women being silent and continued on to read chapter 3 regarding "elders" which is the role that most attribute to Deacon.

"the husband of one wife" is simple enough to understand, but the verses that follow that (4 and 5) regarding the role of being a good family leader are the ones that lead me to believe that this directive is meant for men ... because men are suppose to be the leaders in the home ... the head of the household.

Any other scriptures to support this view that women should NOT be a deacon or preacher??

If a woman should not be a preacher or a deacon, the why does God bless these ministries???

SunnyLin · Sep 12, 2002

i had the same question myself just last night, so i looked it up in my bible. many times in the old testament, there were women leaders of teh household and of the bible. i dont beelive there is anything wrong with women religious leaders, at least i hope not becuase i hope to become one some day. here are some verses, maybe these'll help: Ex15:20 jdg 4:4 2ki 22:14 1ch 7:24 2 ch 22:10 ac 18:26 and ro 16:1-2

although i dont believe any women took an outstanding role in the bible, they are and have been essential.

Susan · Sep 12, 2002

Amen sola fide. I do not believe that women should have any place of authority in the church. The Bible forbids it.

A woman can serve in the church but must not be in charge of anything or in authority over anyone. Remember Jezebel? or Eve? The temptation of power is too much for a woman and should not be allowed.

However, women can do the some of the best work for the ministry: they can encourage their husbands and sons to Godliness and proper use of the authority they are allowed. Notice I said encourage, not compel: it is ultimately the man's decision as it is his place not ours.

 

 

Susan · Sep 12, 2002

And maybe it is not God who bleses the ministries of women preachers and deacons.

I used to want to be a missionary. I still do in fact want to bring the good news of salvation through faith in Jesus Christ to people in the Aleph cult.

However, I am not going to speak to cultists directly anymore. Instead I am going to encourage men to go into that ministry by publicizing the need for evangelism to Aleph, and I will raise money and provide encouragemen, information, and support.

Nevertheless, I now believe that the Scripture prohibits me from actually preaching to anyone, speaking in the manner of a teacher over men, or even giving influencing advice to men.

Susan · Sep 12, 2002

So if you're a man, please ignore anything I say unless you already agree with it before I said it, hehe

LilyLamb · Sep 12, 2002

thank you for your list of verses, I looked at each of them ...

Ex 15:20 Miriam was a prophetess

Judges 4:4 Deborah was a prophetess and judge of Israel

2 Kings 22:14 Huldah was a prophetess

I Chronicles 7:24 Ephraim's daugther Sheerah built Lower/Upper Beth Horon and Uzzen Sheerah

2 Chronicles 22:10 Athaliah, mother of Ahazaih killed all the royal family of Judah ?? (not sure why you chose this verse) ??

Acts 18:26 Priscilla and Aquila took Apollos into their home and helped him better understand the way of God (is it possible she did so without a word??)

Romans 16:1-2 Phoebe a helper in the church in Cenchrea

My thoughts on this ...

I Corinthians 12 lists the gifts of the Spirit and the various roles within the body of Christ ...

There are apostles, prophets, teachers, helpers, administrators, etc etc ... and it says not all are apostles, prophets, teachers etc etc

A prophetess is not necessarily a preacher or teacher ...

If the Apostle Paul instructs that a woman should not teach that doesn't exclude her from being a prophetess, she doesn't need to teach to prophesy.

A helper (one who "helps") doesn't necessarily teach or govern (administrator) etc

The only time I have seen a woman play a leadership role "in the family" is when Queen Jezebell did her husband's job of ruling and she's the one who tried to have the prophet Elijah killed ...

Deborah was a prophet and Judge of Israel but it doesn't indicate anywhere that she ruled the house over her husband, I'm pretty sure her husband was still in charge of their household. Priscilla would have certainly sided her husband in bringing Apollos into their home ... and she could very well have taught Apollos about God without saying a word, by her actions and by supporting her husband.

I don't deny that women have played some major roles throughout the history of the scriptures ... but I have yet to see one in the actual role of being a preacher or deacon.

Annabel Lee · Sep 12, 2002

Originally posted by Susan
And maybe it is not God who bleses the ministries of women preachers and deacons.

I used to want to be a missionary. I still do in fact want to bring the good news of salvation through faith in Jesus Christ to people in the Aleph cult.

However, I am not going to speak to cultists directly anymore. Instead I am going to encourage men to go into that ministry by publicizing the need for evangelism to Aleph, and I will raise money and provide encouragemen, information, and support.

Nevertheless, I now believe that the Scripture prohibits me from actually preaching to anyone, speaking in the manner of a teacher over men, or even giving influencing advice to men.

So Susan, you aren't going to be a missionary anymore? I'm sorry to hear that.
I was just about to give you my "You're a young woman with your whole life ahead of you." speech but you've heard that too many times already.
Good luck Susan.

Okay, I've changed my mind..
Susan, you're a young woman with your whole life ahead of you. Don't sell yourself short. There's a big world out there just waiting for you. Be all that you can be! Teach, influence..be a force for good.

LilyLamb · Sep 12, 2002

LOL Susan ... that was cute

At one time I wanted to be a preacher and was talked out of it by a preacher whom I respected and believed to be interpreting the scriptures correctly.

Now I'm being asked what I think about women deacons being allowed at our church ... I think it falls within the same frame as preachers ... with the verses indicating that men play these roles.

However my husband is a deacon and I feel I can actively participate in his duties as his helpmate. I don't need the title to do the work, if you know what I mean

LilyLamb · Sep 12, 2002

Susan, my DD is a missionary .... she doesn't preach, but she does share the gospel message with others .... being a missionary is not the same as being a preacher .... and the role of teaching children is very, very important. Give it some more thought and if you're interested in a good school for missionaries, send me a message and I'll send you a link to where my DD is going (it's a free school - you just have to commit to one year of internship after your two years of training).

Matto · Sep 13, 2002

Women are called to prophecy.

Acts 2: 17, "'In the last days, God says, I will pour out my Spirit on all people. Your sons and daughters will prophesy . . ."

I think any woman with the gift of prophecy ought to use it. Perhaps they honestly should not have a position of authority. Likewise, though, I don't think that automatically cuts them off from all forms of ministry. Perhaps they are more than "support for husbands." For instance, what if a woman chooses not to marry? That's scripturally suggested by Paul.

And, correct me if I'm wrong (please), but isn't the problem just with women who have AUTHORITY in church? Authority over men? I feel if a man goes to a woman for advice, she may speak to him as if she has authority. Perhaps, also, she could speak to unbelievers. Afterall, Paul makes clear distinctions in how we ought to treat believers (whom we're called to judge) and unbelievers (whom God will judge). And we may associate with immoral unbelievers, but not immoral believers.

Likewise, perhaps a woman can become a missionary to unbelievers. Perhaps these verses apply to congregational worship, and not a ministry.

I would seek the Spirit on these questions. I do not know the answer. And I always hesitate to speak on this matter, because I do not want to encourage a woman to do something God sees as wrong, and I do not want to discourage a woman from doing something God wants her to.

Bondservant · Sep 14, 2002

Very nicely put Lilly in post #8

This is a very tough subject here in the USA.

One thing to remember is that Women have very significant roles to play in the life of the Body of Christ - and it is key to remember that just because one is Male does not give him the right to be a teacher in the Church - he must also be called to teach by Christ - and that calling recognized by the body of the Church.

Another very important point on the subject of the man being the head of the household - St. Paul stongly states that men must be as Christ is to the Church. - that corelation is also true for the leaders of the formal churches - they must be as Christ is to His Body.

Thank your for your insight Lilly

BeanMak · Sep 15, 2002

Here is a very interesting treatment of women in the Bible:
http://www.webcom.com/~ctt/femalex.html

LilyLamb · Sep 15, 2002

That is a very interesting link ... a lot to digest ... will have to bookmark this one and spend some time reading over everything. Thank you for bringing it to our attention.

DaveKerwin · Sep 15, 2002

We covered this topic about a month ago, and in DETAIL. It went many pages. So if you want to know, then do a search, or maybe someone can find it and link it here.

LilyLamb · Sep 16, 2002

Thank you for pointing that out - I found the thread and read all of it - took some time, but found it very interesting ... especially the last post with the link to C.S. Lewis' writing "Priestesses in the Church?"

http://www.episcopalnet.org/TRACTS/priestesses.html

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