Legal victory for Texas Bible monument

CACTUSJACKmankin said:

Since when? American Government is based in the ideas of democracy, freedom, and equity. These are ideas derived from the euopean enlightenment philosophy, not the bible or the 10 commandments. Of all the commandments 2 are laws, murder and stealing, and lying is only illegal in specific contexts. Explain which commandments the government is based in and how the government incorporates those rules into it. BTW google the treaty of tripoli, that should clear up the whole christian nation thing.

Click to expand...

I think we all understand that the Founding Fathers were all humanist agnostics who were hostile to organized religion.

They don't belong in a government building, separation of church and state.

Click to expand...

Which doesn't appear in the Constitution, oddly enough. But of course, if Christians mention that there are dozens of references in early American writings regarding founding America as a Christian nation, the immediate reply is "But that's not in the Constitution!"

Ergo: If "America should be founded as a Christian nation" is not found in the Constitution, it needs to be thrown out. On the other hand, if "separation of church and state" is not found in the Constitution, it still is to be considered absolute Law and Truth. Gotcha.

Faith and Bible is actually causing so many silly problems in public policy which include anti-gay marriage

Click to expand...

Why not put it to a popular vote, and see what happens?

creationism in schools

Click to expand...

Again, The Mighty Fred:

http://www.lewrockwell.com/reed/reed27.html

http://www.lewrockwell.com/reed/reed59.html

http://www.lewrockwell.com/reed/reed80.html

anti-stem cell research

Click to expand...

Christians don't care if there's stem cell research. They just don't want the stem cells to come from aborted children. It's not a research issue. It's an abortion issue.

anti-HPV vaccine and anti-plan b

Click to expand...

Wouldn't abstinence among non-infected people preclude need for this? (Whoops, not supposed to say that, am I?)

and abstinance-only sex education.

Click to expand...

Let them breed like rabbits. We can form a Nazi-style Lebensborn project to take care of the children.

Wouldn't abstinence among non-infected people preclude need for this? (Whoops, not supposed to say that, am I?)

Click to expand...

Wouldn't walking preclude the need for cars?

Or, better yet, wouldn't ceasing to worry about what consenting adults do in the privacy of their bedrooms preclude the need for people to stick their noses in and try to deny life saving vacinations?

Hey, I tell you what... if you can come up with a sure fire method of ensuring that the same number of people will abstain from multiple sexual partners, as would be prepared to take the HPV vaccine... then I'll stop advocating the distribution of such a vaccine

Wolseley said:

I think we all understand that the Founding Fathers were all humanist agnostics who were hostile to organized religion.



Which doesn't appear in the Constitution, oddly enough. But of course, if Christians mention that there are dozens of references in early American writings regarding founding America as a Christian nation, the immediate reply is "But that's not in the Constitution!"

Ergo: If "America should be founded as a Christian nation" is not found in the Constitution, it needs to be thrown out. On the other hand, if "separation of church and state" is not found in the Constitution, it still is to be considered absolute Law and Truth. Gotcha.



Why not put it to a popular vote, and see what happens?



Again, The Mighty Fred:

http://www.lewrockwell.com/reed/reed27.html

http://www.lewrockwell.com/reed/reed59.html

http://www.lewrockwell.com/reed/reed80.html



Christians don't care if there's stem cell research. They just don't want the stem cells to come from aborted children. It's not a research issue. It's an abortion issue.



Wouldn't abstinence among non-infected people preclude need for this? (Whoops, not supposed to say that, am I?)



Let them breed like rabbits. We can form a Nazi-style Lebensborn project to take care of the children.

Click to expand...

Do you believe in equal freedom of religion for all? If you do then you must support government neutrality on questions of religion. All people are compelled to support the government. To allow government to take sides on question of religion is to require those who disagree to support promotion of a religious idea that they do not support.

The Golden Rule requires equal freedom of religion. Equal freedom of religion requires government neutrality on religion.

So what side are you on? The side of equal freedom of religion for all? Or do you support some having more freedom than others?

Wolseley said:

I think we all understand that the Founding Fathers were all humanist agnostics who were hostile to organized religion.

Click to expand...

Tell that to people who say this is a christian nation and founded on christianity.

Ergo: If "America should be founded as a Christian nation" is not found in the Constitution, it needs to be thrown out. On the other hand, if "separation of church and state" is not found in the Constitution, it still is to be considered absolute Law and Truth. Gotcha.

Click to expand...

Separation of church and state is a long established judicial philosophy that is derived from the establishment clause of the constitution. The supreme court has held this as a valid constitutional interperatation for centuries, and interpereting the constitution is the supreme court's job. The christian nation idea has no legal basis whatsoever.

Faith and Bible is actually causing so many silly problems in public policy which include anti-gay marriage

Click to expand...

Why not put it to a popular vote, and see what happens?

Click to expand...

Equality should not be the whim of a popular vote. One of the ideas our government was founded on was though the majority wins, protect the minority from the oppression of the majority. Equality IS in the constitution (14th amendment).

Again, The Mighty Fred:

http://www.lewrockwell.com/reed/reed27.html

http://www.lewrockwell.com/reed/reed59.html

http://www.lewrockwell.com/reed/reed80.html

Click to expand...

A lot of distortive creationist nonsense, evolution is science. I don't want to get into that here, I frequent the creo-evo forums if you want to discuss that further.

Christians don't care if there's stem cell research. They just don't want the stem cells to come from aborted children. It's not a research issue. It's an abortion issue.

Click to expand...

Really, I mostly hear people talking about stem cells as if they are the same thing as a fetus. It's a totally different point during development. Most proponents I am aware of, including myself, think that they should come from IVF embryos that are about to be thrown away and wasted.

Wouldn't abstinence among non-infected people preclude need for this? (Whoops, not supposed to say that, am I?)

Click to expand...

There is such thing as reality. Humans are sexual beings and abstinance is not always mutual. Why deny the vaccine that protects against any disease? Much less the #2 killer of women. And refusing plan b encourages abortion because if women can't get that pill within a day or two the pregnancy begins and to end it would require abortion.

Let them breed like rabbits.

Click to expand...

That's not the point, every study of abstinance-only education says it doesn't work in terms of reducing cases of STDs and teen pregnancy and it encourages ingorance and misinformation about sex and STDs.

Wolseley said:

Ergo: If "America should be founded as a Christian nation" is not found in the Constitution, it needs to be thrown out. On the other hand, if "separation of church and state" is not found in the Constitution, it still is to be considered absolute Law and Truth. Gotcha.

Click to expand...

The FACT is that the Establishment Clause together with the Free Exeercise Clause mean separation of church and state. You do understand that?

The additional fact of the matter is that there is nothing in the constitution that in the slightest way suggests a "Christian Nation".

Your argument is total nonsense.

Why not put it to a popular vote, and see what happens?

Click to expand...

Do you have any idea why the bill of rights was even added to the constitution?

Your comments suggests that you don't.

[/QUOTE]

EnemyPartyII said:

Wouldn't walking preclude the need for cars?

Click to expand...

Not to mention that it would help ease global warming.

Or, better yet, wouldn't ceasing to worry about what consenting adults do in the privacy of their bedrooms preclude the need for people to stick their noses in and try to deny life saving vacinations?

Click to expand...

Absolutely. As long as they don't turn around and scream for the government to do more to cure the diseases they spread---using my taxes, of course.

Wolseley said:

I think we all understand that the Founding Fathers were all humanist agnostics who were hostile to organized religion.

CACTUSJACKmankin said:

Tell that to people who say this is a christian nation and founded on christianity.

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

The Doppeler Effect that you're hearing is my sarcasm shooting past, completely unnoticed.

A lot of distortive creationist nonsense, evolution is science. I don't want to get into that here, I frequent the creo-evo forums if you want to discuss that further.

Click to expand...

Anybody who would label Fred Reed a Creationist is obviously not terribly familiar with him. Did you read the links? Reed isn't even religious.

crazyfingers said:

The FACT is that the Establishment Clause together with the Free Exeercise Clause mean separation of church and state. You do understand that?

The additional fact of the matter is that there is nothing in the constitution that in the slightest way suggests a "Christian Nation".

Your argument is total nonsense.

Do you have any idea why the bill of rights was even added to the constitution?

Your comments suggests that you don't.

Click to expand...

Well, of course not. I'm badly confused; don't you remember?