Legal victory for Texas Bible monument

crazyfingers said:

Are you trying to make a point?

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The point is other religious statues are put up by cities on city property.

And yes that's a religious statue, it even often has offerings placed on it.

pgp_protector said:

The point is other religious statues are put up by cities on city property.

And yes that's a religious statue, it even often has offerings placed on it.

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The relevant point is whether the intent really is to promote that dead religion. I doubt it.

crazyfingers said:

The relevant point is whether the intent really is to promote that dead religion. I doubt it.

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Can't be that dead of a religion if people are still placing offerings on it.

Again, we don't need a monument. We need those laws written on our hearts.

pgp_protector said:

Can't be that dead of a religion if people are still placing offerings on it.

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shoot I'd put some offerings at the foot of that bad boy. look at that thing. That thing is awesome. Beats some old white bearded guy any day.

pgp_protector said:

Can't be that dead of a religion if people are still placing offerings on it.

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Offerings?

crazyfingers said:

Offerings?

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Incense, Food, Candles, Other "Stuff" that I didn't get too close to, They've had prayers there, "Festivals. & celebrations (with more offerings)" ect.

First hand eye witness to all of the above.

pgp_protector said:

Incense, Food, Candles, Other "Stuff" that I didn't get too close to, They've had prayers there, "Festivals. & celebrations (with more offerings)" ect.

First hand eye witness to all of the above.

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If people really are worshiping the thing on government property, then it needs to be moved to private property.

crazyfingers said:

If people really are worshiping the thing on government property, then it needs to be moved to private property.

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Why ?
The Goverment is not Endorsing Or Preventing a Religion by Allowing that action.

pgp_protector said:

Why ?
The Goverment is not Endorsing Or Preventing a Religion by Allowing that action.

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If it's a dedicated place for one religion, it can't be on government property. That IS endorsement.

crazyfingers said:

If it's a dedicated place for one religion, it can't be on government property. That IS endorsement.

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ahh but it's not a "dedicated" place for religion, they just happen to have people that do that stuff there.

pgp_protector said:

ahh but it's not a "dedicated" place for religion, they just happen to have people that do that stuff there.

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Unless the religious monument is mobile, the earth it sits on is dedicated to it.

Actually the Ten Commandments are for all faiths. They are part of the basis for American government, so they are special and deserve favored treatment. Did you know the US Supreme Court building has SIX displays of the Ten Commandments in or on the building's architecture? Shall we demand the Supreme Court destroy its building? I think not.

This is another example of how we are restoring America's greatness by restoring the role of faith and the Bible in government and history and in public policy discussions. And we will continue to do so.

LovesTruth said:

Actually the Ten Commandments are for all faiths. They are part of the basis for American government, so they are special and deserve favored treatment. Did you know the US Supreme Court building has SIX displays of the Ten Commandments in or on the building's architecture? Shall we demand the Supreme Court destroy its building? I think not.

This is another example of how we are restoring America's greatness by restoring the role of faith and the Bible in government and history and in public policy discussions. And we will continue to do so.

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Um, first off, the ten commandments are not for all faiths. The first and second commandments kinda shoot that theory right in the foot.

Secondly, while many of the founding fathers were religious, the 10 commandents were not the basis, and the first amendment holds that no religion should be favored.

LovesTruth said:

Actually the Ten Commandments are for all faiths. They are part of the basis for American government, so they are special and deserve favored treatment. Did you know the US Supreme Court building has SIX displays of the Ten Commandments in or on the building's architecture? Shall we demand the Supreme Court destroy its building? I think not.

This is another example of how we are restoring America's greatness by restoring the role of faith and the Bible in government and history and in public policy discussions. And we will continue to do so.

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No, they aren't for all faiths, that might be the dumbest thing you've ever said. I have a strange feeling that a Buddhist walking up to a big rock that says "Thou shalt have no other gods before me" might not expect to get an impartial trial.

As for being the basis of American government, where, how? The supreme court also has a big frieze of hammurabis code, is that now a "basis of American government"? No, again thats retarded.

I once again defer to The Mighty Fred:

"In the United States, though, we see something very different: an aggressive hostility to religion, a desire to extirpate it and, though no one quite says this, to punish its practitioners. A curious witch-hunt continues in which people seem to look for any trace of religion so that they can root it out. I would call it vengeful, except that I do not know for what it might be revenge.

Why? The explanations given do not make sense. A store whose sign says “Merry Christmas” is a threat to nothing, just as a nativity scene can offend only one who is looking very hard for something to offend him.

The notion that the Ten Commandments on the wall of a courthouse will lead to an established religion is palpable nonsense. Constitutional piety doesn’t wash either. If nativity scenes contravene the Constitution, why was this not noticed by anyone, assuredly including the authors, until at least 1950?

But this does not answer the question of why the hostile stalking of religion that pervades the ranks of the educated and influential in the United States....so far as I know, only communism and Americanism have tried to eradicate religion."

http://www.lewrockwell.com/reed/reed88.html

LovesTruth said:

Actually the Ten Commandments are for all faiths.

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In theory, not in practice.

They are part of the basis for American government, so they are special and deserve favored treatment.

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Since when? American Government is based in the ideas of democracy, freedom, and equity. These are ideas derived from the euopean enlightenment philosophy, not the bible or the 10 commandments. Of all the commandments 2 are laws, murder and stealing, and lying is only illegal in specific contexts. Explain which commandments the government is based in and how the government incorporates those rules into it. BTW google the treaty of tripoli, that should clear up the whole christian nation thing.

Did you know the US Supreme Court building has SIX displays of the Ten Commandments in or on the building's architecture? Shall we demand the Supreme Court destroy its building? I think not.

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They don't belong in a government building, separation of church and state.

This is another example of how we are restoring America's greatness by restoring the role of faith and the Bible in government and history and in public policy discussions. And we will continue to do so.

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Faith and Bible is actually causing so many silly problems in public policy which include anti-gay marriage, creationism in schools, anti-stem cell research, anti-HPV vaccine and anti-plan b, and abstinance-only sex education.

LovesTruth, please learn the truth.

LovesTruth said:

Actually the Ten Commandments are for all faiths.

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It can't be for all faiths. The first 4 are specific to Judeo-Christianity. They do not speak to the Hindu or Buddhists or Shinto or any but the Abrahamic religions. Unless you define all non-abrahamic religions as not faiths.

Point 1 blown out of the water.

They are part of the basis for American government, so they are special and deserve favored treatment.

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Only don't steal and don't murder are fully part of the law. And lying only applies to pergury under oath. 25% is a poor showing and neither of the three have much to do with the basis of American government.

Point two blown out of the water.

Did you know the US Supreme Court building has SIX displays of the Ten Commandments in or on the building's architecture? Shall we demand the Supreme Court destroy its building? I think not.

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I do not think that you are aware of what's on the supreme court building.

I suggest that you study this:
http://www.snopes.com/politics/religion/capital.asp

No understanding of the facts would support your claim above.

Point 3 short down.

This is another example of how we are restoring America's greatness by restoring the role of faith and the Bible in government and history and in public policy discussions. And we will continue to do so.

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That comment lacks respect for the right of equal freedom of religion for all. But we know that you've already admitted not to respect freedom of religion for all. Only freedom of religion for those who believe in a supreme being.

Wolseley said:

I once again defer to The Mighty Fred:

"In the United States, though, we see something very different: an aggressive hostility to religion, a desire to extirpate it and, though no one quite says this, to punish its practitioners. A curious witch-hunt continues in which people seem to look for any trace of religion so that they can root it out. I would call it vengeful, except that I do not know for what it might be revenge.

Why? The explanations given do not make sense. A store whose sign says “Merry Christmas” is a threat to nothing, just as a nativity scene can offend only one who is looking very hard for something to offend him.

The notion that the Ten Commandments on the wall of a courthouse will lead to an established religion is palpable nonsense. Constitutional piety doesn’t wash either. If nativity scenes contravene the Constitution, why was this not noticed by anyone, assuredly including the authors, until at least 1950?

But this does not answer the question of why the hostile stalking of religion that pervades the ranks of the educated and influential in the United States....so far as I know, only communism and Americanism have tried to eradicate religion."

http://www.lewrockwell.com/reed/reed88.html

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I suggest that you need to learn what the Establishment Clause means.

Wolseley said:

But this does not answer the question of why the hostile stalking of religion that pervades the ranks of the educated and influential in the United States....so far as I know, only communism and Americanism have tried to eradicate religion."

http://www.lewrockwell.com/reed/reed88.html

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Do you know the term "spray marking the territory"? That's what monuments like that do. Marking the territory for Christianity to the exclusion of others.


Why do some christians feel the need to mark public property with Christian markers?