3ABN Lawyers Discussion

Rosie55 said:

All this barage of questions of the past several posts have already been answered on another forum but you don't like the answers, nor believe them.

The truth comes from 3abn and Amazing Facts people. They know the truth where you don't. Your source knows nothing about what goes on there.

For those who are lurking: please, before you believe anything, check it out with the source which would be 3abn and Amazing Facts. There are a lot of untruthful things being said so it is best that you check the source for your information. That would be the smart thing to do. If you need their phone numbers please pm me and I would be happy to give them to you.

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Pinkpanther007 said:

BTW the bro aint no sis!

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Pinkpanther007 said:

I have been in communication with Danny for MANY years. I know him well.

I still haven't heard him or you give an answer to the questions I have asked above. Do you have a problem with those questions? Are you not capable of answering them? They are just questions.

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tomatoe said:

I absolutely can answer everyone of them but feel I have seen your posts many times under a different name. I have seen your intent and your motives and know that you are not here to get to the truth. If you "know" Danny well, then there is no excuse for not taking your "list" to him directly for answers. There is no reason he wouldn't talk with you unless you or others have made it known to him that you cannot be trusted and are an enemy in this battle.

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tomatoe said:

Love, those that love and support 3abn would give anything if those trying to tear down the ministry would not have taken their allegations and gossip to the internet, but, they did. Since they did, it forces those of us who care about that ministry to defend it. There are lurkers on all the forums that never post but come to read what is happening at 3abn. The defenders feel obligated to fight the false allegations with the truth of the matter so those lurkers can see all the spinning, twisting of words and details that the opposition uses to try and make their accusations true. I for one would give anything if they had never started this smear campaign and wish they would end it this second. But if they don't, someone has to stand up for right.

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tomatoe said:

Both backgrounds have been more towards the charismatic movement, that is true. As far as bringing that to 3abn let's look at the fruits. Mollie's husband Hal has written one of the best books ever written, addressing the tongues issue. Even those in the GC have proclaimed the validity and teaching in this book. Since Hal was involved in that type of movement, he should be able to show truth from error and he does that, very well.
Having studied both sides equips them better to understand how non SDA's think and makes them more capable of knowing how to present truth.
No. Watch the programs, listen to the music, listen to the preaching. The facts speak for themselves that there is nothing creeping in to dilute the 3angels message.

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tomatoe said:

I believe the approximate figures were 250,000.00 from 3abn and somewhere around 150,000.00 to 200,000.00 from the marriage.

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Jimlarmore said:

By my calculations Linda Shelton has went thru well over $11,000 a month if she is out of money and it's been 3 years or 36 months, amazing!!!!

God Bless
Jim Larmore

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Rosie55 said:

All this barage of questions of the past several posts have already been answered on another forum but you don't like the answers, nor believe them.

The truth comes from 3abn and Amazing Facts people. They know the truth where you don't. Your source knows nothing about what goes on there.

For those who are lurking: please, before you believe anything, check it out with the source which would be 3abn and Amazing Facts. There are a lot of untruthful things being said so it is best that you check the source for your information. That would be the smart thing to do. If you need their phone numbers please pm me and I would be happy to give them to you.

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franny said:

General Question:

Who is the OP? Is that the opening poster? I saw where a thread was closed by the OP and am curious.

So can I make a post, and really not like the response and request it be closed?

This thread was opened by Rosie55, can she close it even though there are 4 pages here. When is it too late to close a thread. What is the cross over line?

Franny

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truthmagnet said:

"I believe" and "approximate"?
why don't you just say you don't know?
who said this court case was about money anyway? don't make linda out to be greedy and lazy when you don't know the first thing about any of this. she co-founded 3ABN and worked extremely hard for over 20yrs.! what have you done?
what others have said needs to be repeated. what's personal, is none of our business. one does not want the truth when they are only happy when they hear what they want to hear.

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franny said:

Rosie55 & Tomatoe;

My post came straight from the IL vs. 3ABN Tax Lawsuit, a court Document. Plus the IRS Form 990's filed by 3ABN to the IRS. How can I get closer to the source? This has been into court and auditors saw with their eyes. Yes, this "IS" the source.

I don't need to talk to any source, all I have to do is read the official reports source. Easy, huh? No selective second hand information, no lies, no fabrications, no twists of truth here. This is the truth and nothing but the truth.

Truth does not change like the 3ABN stories have.

Let me see;

1st. It was an inappropriate relationship with Linda's son's doctor;

2nd. It was Spiritual Adultery;

3rd. It moves to adultery;

4th. Now we have come full circle and read Danny's own writings that there was NO adultery that could be proved. Then Walt joins the parade and says there is no proof of adultery.

Danny said he had proof, but won't produce it even though Linda has said it is OK to do so.

Danny has been the one to trash Linda. It is not Linda that is trashing Danny.

Linda is fighting for what is rightfully hers. She will get it if she deserves it and it belongs to her.

Danny lied about paying Linda's car off.
Danny lied about paying off Linda's daughters car.

Is it so hard to say, "I was wrong?"

Now I do believe Danny has told "his" truth about the merger. I just don't believe he understands the "whole" truth about the situation.

Time will tell won't it? Danny should agree to at least that much since I am repeating his own words, right?

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truthmagnet said:

FOR THE 9,000,000th TIME - NO ONE WANT'S TO DESTROY OR HURT 3ABN IN ANY WAY !
no one is trying to destroy the ministry. no one is trying to destroy any person. people just want to hold people accountable for their actions. if there is nothing to be accounted for, then i guess there are a whole lot of forged documents out there. you say you are just "defending".... don't you think that is what others are trying to do as well. they are just trying to defend principles and people other than those you want to defend. there's no difference. the DS side opened this topic to spread more gossip so don't say you are defending.
You may be standing up for them but that doesn't make you right. it makes you loyal to them. big difference. you have speculated and presumed much as well. you make statements like, AF is not afraid of problems with this merger because "they know all the allegations are untrue". Has AF done an investigation we don't know about? If so, why haven't they shared their findings so we can put all this to rest? no, what you are saying is just idealistic loyalty. it's what you want to be true. and you say it and rosie asks you to say it because it is what you want posted here. again, the DS side opened this topic to spread more gossip so don't say you are only defending.

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tomatoe said:

Fran, you have made the biggest issue out of the tax case and if you knew how little it matters in the scope of things you would get off of it.

Well, Well. The things I have posted have nothing to do with property tax. I am speaking about the audit report and 3ABN's financial dealings, or should I say mis-dealings.


That Lawsuit is so full of things other than the taxes on 3ABN's. I could care less if they say you should pay taxes! You will get out of that.


Getting out of the blatant dealing with Trust Funds and Taking other ministries money cannot be taken care of so easily.

That all started because a little township wants to be able to collect taxes off of the ministry, school, church etc. Just because 1 local judge made the ruling that she did so what?

I am well aware of who complained. I agree with them. I believe Judge Rowe was absolutely correct in saying you are a business rather than a non-profit entity. I agree that 3ABN, at that time, should not be allowed a tax exemption as a religious or educational institution.


My points have nothing what-so-ever to do with that ruling! They are entirely on the findings of the auditors and the depositions.


My complaint is that 3ABN did not follow Generally Accepted Accounting Principals (GAAP)! There is absolutely NO excuse for a near 20 year old corporation to not follow GAAP! This fact alone should raise red flags up everywhere!


Tomatoe, there is NO excuse for just NOT POSTING TRUST FUNDS in the amounts of $2.45 MILLION DOLLARS in one year and $1.7 MILLION DOLLARS in the next year.


Trying to talk about everything else is not going to work. You have avoided all of my questions. When people read your comments, they are going to wonder why they have not heard the answers.


These figures are from 2001-2002. However, I have information the practice continued even up to AToday publishing the article about Financial irregularities at 3ABN. These discrepancies plus more were going to get published, but a board member asked AToday not to post that info since there WAS a problem and it was being worked on at that moment. That was in Vol 14; Issue 1; page 12. It was the Jan-Feb, 2006 issue.


As you can see, Auditors found the problem in 2001 and again in 2002. AToday was told by a Board Member that the issue was still not taken care of.


Tomatoe, how can donors feel safe when this goes on! Would you give your money knowing the funds/paperwork just sits and never gets posted?

I think NOT. I did notice that the income from Leased /Rented property did show up. The amount was a bit low I felt. Then every year thereafter it decreases. I always though Leases and Rents increased. Who got all that money prior to it getting filed?


Why did everyone who purchased items from 3ABN get a tax deductible receipts saying that I received no goods or services?


I never asked ONE QUESTION, nor did I comment about the TAX ISSUE. Yet that is your take in your reply. Not a good damage control action. Tomatoe, these people can read!

It immediately went to appeal and has been in that holding pattern for a year or 2. 3abn attorneys don't have too many doubts about winning on appeal.

Neither do I. You took the building that was supposed to be a museum and made a church. That is no way to treat a donor that felt God wanted 3ABN to have the museum items and a building! Do your donors ever get what they actually give for?


You never answered why 3ABN was keeping money that belonged to other ministries. I used to give to 3ABN through my church offerings. It wasn't a lot, but I believed in the Shelton's. Yes, Danny talks way to much and gets on my nerves still. Linda, however, was soothing to my soul. Her word were so encouraging.


I enjoy"ed" Doug's programs. I watched them as much as I could.


I read the reports and stopped giving right there. Now, I no longer support Doug and Amazing Facts, or any other ministry that gets on the exodus band wagon.

Judge's make inaccurate rulings all the time, so what?

I agree, so what?


1.Danny has never said he didn't have proof, quite the opposite.


What does he have proof of? Not of adultery! Danny himself admitted Linda's innocence before the divorce and after the divorce! GIVE US A BREAK AND TELL THE TRUTH!

2. Neither has Walt.

Excuse me? One, two, three. This is so untrue!

3.Your side repeatedly says that DS has Trashed Linda. Name the program when it aired and what was said. No one ever has.

Excuse me? I have no side! I am for the truth. No one gets that from 3ABN! Danny knows I was screaming for years before there was an investigative team.


He also knows I shut up and decided to accept whatever came out as truth from the investigation.


1. I do not believe Linda is guilty. I do not believe she had an inappropriate relationship with Nathan's Doctor! I did my own time line long before one was done by the investigators. There was not enough time for an inappropriate relationship!


2. I believe Danny did not act in a Christ like manner in dealing with Linda. Danny has been punishing her for something she never did.

Ask Danny if he remembers those last few emails sent about Linda? No one would post them and it made Danny mad, but then he asked that they not be printed?



I hope they never see the light of day, unless it is in court. I was ashamed to had ever heard of Danny Shelton!


Danny should know that they will come to light eventually and then the world can see Danny's true character.

4. Since DS was paying the insurance on Linda's car and since the loan was in both names, (I have seen the papers) He assumed his name was on the title. The rest has been addressed over and over.

I realize that may be the case. What does this have to do with you paying off her car? NOTHING!You are avoiding the question or maybe evading is a better word.


I never said a word about a car loan, Insurance ,or title. Why do you do that. Answers to question that do not exist is your way of making sure people see you were not afraid of replying.


You use an intimidating, authoritative, berating, belittling voice that is really not what you exactly want other to think about you. You are not real.

5. It has been told time and again that "proof" will not be shown on the Internet but in the appropriate arena.

Since Danny has already stated there was no adultery; since Spiritual Adultery is not Biblical grounds for divorce; What does he have proof of? Phone calls? I think she can survive that!


6. Why do you rant and rave and act like this is something that has been done to you personally?

"Rant" and "Rave"? Maybe. I would describe it as spreading the word about what has happened. 3ABN did do something to me.


They gave me an illegal receipt. I have no proof the money I gave through my church got to where it was supposed to go!


I do take this personal!


Every donor that gives to 3ABN is my brother and sister! How can I not warn them of gross negligence in accounting procedures and processes?


One day I will be facing God, and he will ask me, "Franny, did you do all you could to bring light to my people?" I have to "Counteract the Counterfeit!" Danny, of all people should understand that.

Have you had a bad experience yourself and therefore your judgement is tainted?

Well, I guess some might think I am just off my rocker! However, my judgement is clear. And, yes, I believe we all have had a few bad experiences.

However, I can honestly say that they have nothing to do with my "Counteracting the Counterfeit".


By the way, what a clever put down you made there. I must try that myself, yes , "Tainted".

It isn't "normal" to carry one as you do over people you don't know or a ministry you have never even been to.

There is no "Normal" anything. There is no true "average" either. What is normal to one is not normal to another.


You are correct that I do not know Danny or Linda, but I have seen proof of their characters; I see the fruits of each.


I would be screaming no matter what ministry was on the lawsuit. Any ministry that has no accountability and does not follow GAAP and I find out about it, I will tell!


How do you know if I have ever been to 3ABN? Be careful now. It is not necessary for me to go anywhere to see that 3ABN is in trouble big time. That has nothing to do with a physical location!

You probably should work on focusing on something that actually involves you directly instead of trying to live someone else's life.

This does involve me and my church family. I have every right to be involved! And ask serious questions. These are only the "tip of the iceberg!" [/quote]

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