3ABN Lawyers Discussion

Rosie55 said:

Thank you Tomatoe for answering my questions and for your good help in this.

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Just a quick observation from a former "lurker" ...

It strikes me as odd that questions that could have been asked/answered by probably 4-5 e-mails going back and forth were felt to be a necessary post for an online forum. (Again, just an observation...)

I haven't taken the time to read every single post here at CF re this issue (or at BSDA or other forums). However, it seems -- from an "outsider's" (i.e., "non-side-taking SDA") perspective, that there is much time and energy being devoted to "keeping things going" and almost breathlessly awaiting each new "soap opera-like" development.

To be sure, these are very serious developments and issues and matters -- and I await the ultimate outcome with great interest myself -- but one possibility occurs to me: could it be that our Father doesn't need as much "help" from some on either side to resolve these issues as is being provided?

Besides, aren't there folks who live next door to us or down the street from us who could be learning about Jesus from us...if we chose to focus our attention / time / energies on *them* for a bit?

Just a thought...I'll get back to working on my sermon for tomorrow.

Happy Sabbath!

ChuckSDA said:

Just a quick observation from a former "lurker" ...

It strikes me as odd that questions that could have been asked/answered by probably 4-5 e-mails going back and forth were felt to be a necessary post for an online forum. (Again, just an observation...)

I haven't taken the time to read every single post here at CF re this issue (or at BSDA or other forums). However, it seems -- from an "outsider's" (i.e., "non-side-taking SDA") perspective, that there is much time and energy being devoted to "keeping things going" and almost breathlessly awaiting each new "soap opera-like" development.

To be sure, these are very serious developments and issues and matters -- and I await the ultimate outcome with great interest myself -- but one possibility occurs to me: could it be that our Father doesn't need as much "help" from some on either side to resolve these issues as is being provided?

Besides, aren't there folks who live next door to us or down the street from us who could be learning about Jesus from us...if we chose to focus our attention / time / energies on *them* for a bit?

Just a thought...I'll get back to working on my sermon for tomorrow.

Happy Sabbath!

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Chuck, WELCOME TO THE FORUM!!!!

Let me just say, I like you a lot already!

Happy Sabbath brother!

Tomatoe--I know this is the week-end but I hope you can help me with more questions. This merger is interesting news to many people. Some are saying this is happening because Pastor Batchelor is to take over 3abn because of Danny's sins. They are saying Pastor B. will take over 3abn. We know you said this is not the case but that each will have their separate duties and titles.

Some are saying Pastor B. is trying to "hide" Danny's supposed sins.

I think these people are not understanding the real reasons for the merger. I know you've said it before but I guess my question is this: Is Doug taking over 3abn to hide Danny's supposed sins?

ChuckSDA said:

Just a quick observation from a former "lurker" ...

It strikes me as odd that questions that could have been asked/answered by probably 4-5 e-mails going back and forth were felt to be a necessary post for an online forum. (Again, just an observation...)

I haven't taken the time to read every single post here at CF re this issue (or at BSDA or other forums). However, it seems -- from an "outsider's" (i.e., "non-side-taking SDA") perspective, that there is much time and energy being devoted to "keeping things going" and almost breathlessly awaiting each new "soap opera-like" development.

To be sure, these are very serious developments and issues and matters -- and I await the ultimate outcome with great interest myself -- but one possibility occurs to me: could it be that our Father doesn't need as much "help" from some on either side to resolve these issues as is being provided?

Besides, aren't there folks who live next door to us or down the street from us who could be learning about Jesus from us...if we chose to focus our attention / time / energies on *them* for a bit?

Just a thought...I'll get back to working on my sermon for tomorrow.

Happy Sabbath!

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Chuck if only a few emails could have resolved it. No matter how m any answers of truth we supply they just come up with something else. 3abn has let it go on and on and trusted the Lord to take care of it but sometimes the Lord uses us pathetic humans as his tool to help things along. I think 3abn waited too long before trying in anyway to defend themselves and this is where it got them. If this was just an argument, it would be different. But it has become detrimental to God's ministry. These people have wrote letters, sent emails, made phone calls to get churches to cancel 3abn, to get people to quit supporting and have spread in their own churches, by word of mouth, what they are putting on the net. It has caused confusion, bitterness, anger at 3abn for allegations that are not even true and has made many supporters feel they have been betrayed, when in reality, they haven't been at all. As you said, 3abn does not want to have to take time and energy away from spreading the gospel but after a period of time can no longer continue to let this go on. You said you haven't kept up or been to bsda, so much the better for you, but, on the other hand, you can't realize the magnitude and damage that has been done. Therefore those of us that know these allegations are false come here to try to rectify the false stories and show the lurkers that there is another side, a true side in contrast to what they are reading.
I hope that helps you understand a little better.

We shall return to the Rosie and Tomatoe Presents Show after a short break for some Breaking News Updates!

A large and diverse group of sincere, concerned Christians, many of whom admittedly love the world wide soul-winning ministry of 3abn as well as the powerfully effective evangelistic ministry of Doug Batchelor and Amazing Facts, have banded together out of concern for the health of both ministries after word of some unseemly behavior(some verified and documented as well as some alleged) has surfaced from a variety of sources. Many in this group take exception to the following statement recently aired on the Rosie and Tomatoe Presents Show:

Rosie55 said:

Wooba, I agree with you here: the Lord will act soon.

The Lord uses men to help do his work here on this earth and soon all of this will be over. Unfortunately many people have taken upon themselves to do a work that is not of the Lord to try to not only hurt the Lord's work but the Lord's people.

The fruits of 3abn and AF tell a lot. Their whole desire and goal for uniting is to spread the gospel message. But satan doesn't want this to happen so he has inspired men to try to block this work from going forward.

But as you said--the Lord will act soon. I can hardly wait.

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PeacefulSDA, a member of this large group that range all the way from Conservative to more Liberal Seventh-day Adventists, reports that many of those seeking to bring hidden sin to light so it can be properly dealt with and not allowed to destroy the life-changing potential of the Three Angels Broadcasting Network, believe they do so at the urging of the Holy Spirit and not, as Rosie's statement charges, the spirit of God's adversary. This burden has not been taken lightly by the vast majority of those working towards this common goal.

The honest seeker of truth will look at the statement quoted on this carefully orchestrated public relations program by one Jim Larmore and wonder why he divided the money Linda Shelton received as part of the divorce settlement into 36 monthly installments, insinuating that she carelessly ran through $11,000 per month, when it is widely known that a good portion of that money went towards purchasing a home to live in.


And now, a few words from the messenger of our Sponsor:

"The prejudice which has arisen against us because we have reproved the wrongs that God has shown me existed, and the cry that has been raised of harshness and severity, are unjust. God bids us speak, and we will not be silent. If wrongs are apparent among His people, and if the servants of God pass on indifferent to them, they virtually sustain and justify the sinner, and are alike guilty and will just as surely receive the displeasure of God; for they will be made responsible for the sins of the guilty. In vision I have been pointed to many instances where the displeasure of God has been incurred by a neglect on the part of His servants to deal with the wrongs and sins existing among them. Those who have excused these wrongs have been thought by the people to be very amiable and lovely in disposition, simply because they shunned to discharge a plain Scriptural duty. The task was not agreeable to their feelings; therefore they avoided it. {3T 265.2}"


Beware lest you deal harshly with those who you think have made mistakes, while others, more guilty and more deserving of reproof, who should be severely rebuked for their unChristlike conduct, are sustained and treated as friends."--RH Mar. 12, 1895.


Now back to our regularly scheduled program -

Rosie55 said:

Tomatoe--I know this is the week-end but I hope you can help me with more questions. This merger is interesting news to many people. Some are saying this is happening because Pastor Batchelor is to take over 3abn because of Danny's sins. They are saying Pastor B. will take over 3abn. We know you said this is not the case but that each will have their separate duties and titles.

Some are saying Pastor B. is trying to "hide" Danny's supposed sins.

I think these people are not understanding the real reasons for the merger. I know you've said it before but I guess my question is this: Is Doug taking over 3abn to hide Danny's supposed sins?

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What people do not seem to be comprehending here is this merge is so much bigger than Danny or Doug. There are lots of people involved in this. Well respected people and leaders of the church. Doug has several conference people on his board and that are involved with AF. Danny has members of ASI and the conference on his and also plenty more that associate with 3abn. How people think that 2 people could make this decision of a "cover up" and then make it happen is beyond me.
1. AF is a very succesful ministry in it's own right, why get involved with 3abn if the internet allegations are true?
2. Doug could not make this move without his board's approval. In order to get that approval he had to present them with the reasons and advantages for this merger. Covering Danny's sins was not one of those reasons that he brought to the table.
3. Why should AF or Doug cover Danny's sins if they were, indeed, true?
4. Why would AF and Doug want to take on anymore responsiblities than they already have with the sacramento church and AF?
5. Why would Danny for any circumstances, just hand over the biggest media tool the denomination has ever known. Not to mention the 23 years it took him to build it.
6. Contrary to rumors, 3abn is not in debt and have several million more in assets than AF. So again, the rumors that 3abn needs AF to bail them out of financial problems are totally false.

Now the truth of the merger. Simple. 2 great ministries together are stronger and can do more to evangelize the world than each on his own. Putting the AF people with their evangelistic expertise with the 3abn people and their media expertise is a win win combination. It combines ideas, boards and financial support to make more happen with less by working together. Each bring their talents and means to the table. Each have their areas of expertise and knowledge. By merging your double even triple your ideas of bringing the 3 angels message to the world.
Why is AF willing to do this with all the allegations being spread? Because they know they are not true. Doug has worked too closely with 3abn and Danny through through the years, to know what is truth and what is not. AF knows they are unfounded and are therefore, willing to join hands together in one of the strongest moves and unions in the church's history.
Danny has offered the title of presidency to Doug while maintaining CEO/Founder title and remaining in control at 3abn while Doug remains in control of AF. This merge isn't about day to day operations at either ministry. Nor is it about a take over or Danny stepping aside. Quite the opposite. Both men and ministries are about being even more involved in preaching, teaching, seminars, and raising funds to keep up with all the latest technology so the gospel can be spread to more and more remote areas.
Notice I said Danny has offered the title of Presidency. That remains to be seen until the merged board is formed and titles are voted on. Some things have been worked out, many decisions are still to be made, but, know this: Both ministries will continue under their present leadership with day to day operations remaining the same.

Wow--Thank you tomatoe! To take this gospel to the whole world is so exciting to think about. God is working for His people.

I'm so glad Amazing Facts and 3ABN have joined together to reach this goal of reaching the whole world (not just America) with the gospel. Praise the Lord.

There are some who want to think the worst--who gossip and spin stories of the truth. They think there is "hidden" sin with 3ABN. They want to tear down what God has done. But God sees the heart and He knows all about these false accusers. You would think they don't want these ministries to unite but I can see God's strong hand in this merger!! He loves 3ABN and Amazing Facts and He is using His men to do His work.

We need to support 3abn/Amazing Facts with our donations because their fruits show they are doing God's will and doing His work. We also need to pray for them that God will bless their efforts and give them wisdom as they make these decisions in the upcoming months.

Tomatoe, could you tell me just briefly a little about Shelley Quinn--was she always an SDA and what is her religious background? Do you know? Or is there anywhere one can go to find this information?

Some have said she is bringing Penticostalism to 3abn--is this a true statement?

The same is said of Mollie Steenson. Do you see this happening at 3abn?

Thank you for taking the time to reply. Thank you to others for not interferring in this thread and letting tomatoe reply.

PeacefulSDA said:

We shall return to the


Now back to our regularly scheduled program -

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If you want to pretend that this is a television show, then my advice would be, if you don't like the program, you are free to turn the channel.

Tomatoe:

Why did 3ABN deceive Trust Fund Donors into thinking their Trust Funds in the amounts of $2.4 million and $ 1.7 million, were posted when auditors stated they were not?

Does 3ABN Financial Statements and Form 990's include income from 3ABN Enterprises? If not, why not?

Why did 3ABN, a near 20 year old Corporation, think that it was not important to follow Generally Accepted Accounting Practices, GAAP?

Since the audit shows that the 3ABN property that was leased/rented out was not found posted anywhere in the 3ABN Income? Where did those funds go?

When I made a purchase from 3ABN, why was I sent a Tax Deductible Receipt that stated I received no goods or services for my donation, when in actuality I bought something?

Isn't it time to get real and change the way 3ABN is accountable to its donors?

Isn't it time to change the way things are managed?

Please refer to the IL vs. 3ABN Property Tax Lawsuit, see footnotes 14 & 15.

Please PM me for the link. I have not made 15 posts as yet. I am hurrying.

However, you can find the 990 for the last 5 years at the save 3ABN dot com site.

Happy reading, and Happy Sabbath.

Tomatoe,

- Why did some people claiming inside 3ABN knowledge on this forum claim that Linda had been censured by the church?

- Why did high ranking representatives of 3ABN claim that Linda wore a wedding ring to the GC sessions in 2005, and insinnuate that she was married to Arild Abrahamsen MD?

- Did Danny Shelton ever claim or insinnuate that Linda and Dr. Abrahamsen had taken vactions in various places previous to the divorce?

- Is it possible for 3ABN to be three million dollars down in donations without being technically in debt?

- Does the margin by which 3ABN's physical assets outweigh those of AF, outweigh the margin by which AF's credibility outweighs that of 3ABN in the minds of donors and those who are interested in the proposed merger?

- Who proposed the idea of a merger? Was it Garwin McNeilus? Danny Shelton? Doug Bachelor?

- Who proposed and effected the meeting in Denver that Danny spoke of on the live program? Did Garwin McNeilus?

- Is the Seventh-day Adventist Church structure a part of this new organization that claims they will support the church?

- Will two Mcneilus's on the small ASI Missions board (When much of the ASI missions rely on the McNeilus family for their financial support) that constitutes the new constituency have any impact on the direction of the new organization, taking into consideration the fact that the McNeilus family is funding Danny Shelton's law suits for the purpose of quashing question or dissent regarding Danny Shelton and 3ABN's moral and legal status?

- Does the funding of Danny's personal legal fees in the matter of his divorce, division of property and the funding for private investigators to harrass and follow Linda constitute a conflict of interest for an individual or family who might be involved in deciding the structure of the new organization and Danny's status in it when his moral and legal standing is in public question, and some of that question relates to his separation from Linda, the issue of her daughter's accusation that Danny sexually molested her, royalties on a book published by Remnant Publications, his family and other Shelton issues that this funding has attempted to defend?

- Has Danny addressed the issue of his former stepdaughter's accusation of sexual molestation? If so, what has been his reply?

Question: Are all these questions considered lies inuendos fabrications and twists of truth?

For the truth go to the source. Don't go to second hand or third hand sources.

All this barage of questions of the past several posts have already been answered on another forum but you don't like the answers, nor believe them.

The truth comes from 3abn and Amazing Facts people. They know the truth where you don't. Your source knows nothing about what goes on there.

For those who are lurking: please, before you believe anything, check it out with the source which would be 3abn and Amazing Facts. There are a lot of untruthful things being said so it is best that you check the source for your information. That would be the smart thing to do. If you need their phone numbers please pm me and I would be happy to give them to you.

Rosie55 said:

All this barage of questions of the past several posts have already been answered on another forum but you don't like the answers, nor believe them.

The truth comes from 3abn and Amazing Facts people. They know the truth where you don't. Your source knows nothing about what goes on there.

For those who are lurking: please, before you believe anything, check it out with the source which would be 3abn and Amazing Facts. There are a lot of untruthful things being said so it is best that you check the source for your information. That would be the smart thing to do. If you need their phone numbers please pm me and I would be happy to give them to you.

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My source doesn't know the truth? Has Amazing Facts done an independant investigation into this? Have they questioned Linda? Linda's daughter? Have they looked into the Remnant Publications issue? Have they independently investigated each of the issues that have been brought up regarding Danny, Tommy and each of the Shelton family scandals?

What has been the answer regrading Linda's daughter? Was it the diatribe of Shelley Quinn where she talked about Salome? Was Shelley referring to Linda's daughter in that monolog?

Rosie55 said:

Tomatoe, could you tell me just briefly a little about Shelley Quinn--was she always an SDA and what is her religious background? Do you know? Or is there anywhere one can go to find this information?

Some have said she is bringing Penticostalism to 3abn--is this a true statement?

The same is said of Mollie Steenson. Do you see this happening at 3abn?

Thank you for taking the time to reply. Thank you to others for not interferring in this thread and letting tomatoe reply.

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Both backgrounds have been more towards the charismatic movement, that is true. As far as bringing that to 3abn let's look at the fruits. Mollie's husband Hal has written one of the best books ever written, addressing the tongues issue. Even those in the GC have proclaimed the validity and teaching in this book. Since Hal was involved in that type of movement, he should be able to show truth from error and he does that, very well.
Having studied both sides equips them better to understand how non SDA's think and makes them more capable of knowing how to present truth.
No. Watch the programs, listen to the music, listen to the preaching. The facts speak for themselves that there is nothing creeping in to dilute the 3angels message.

Rosyroi said:

Question: Are all these questions considered lies inuendos fabrications and twists of truth?

For the truth go to the source. Don't go to second hand or third hand sources.

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Yes, have you ever done that? Have you ever went to Danny the actual source with your questions and if not, why not? If you have ought against your brother.....
Considering your statement not to go to second or third hand sources, I am assuming then that you have directly went to Danny and Linda and not a second or third party. Correct?

tomatoe said:

Yes, have you ever done that? Have you ever went to Danny the actual source with your questions and if not, why not? If you have ought against your brother.....
Considering your statement not to go to second or third hand sources, I am assuming then that you have directly went to Danny and Linda and not a second or third party. Correct?

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I have gone to Danny. There were no answers, just angry comments. Very angry! I have gone to Linda. There were quiet comments stating that she would not hurt 3ABN with any further talk.

So Where, Tomatoe are the answers to the questions I have asked? Do you have them?

Pinkpanther007 said:

My source doesn't know the truth? Has Amazing Facts done an independant investigation into this? Have they questioned Linda? Linda's daughter? Have they looked into the Remnant Publications issue? Have they independently investigated each of the issues that have been brought up regarding Danny, Tommy and each of the Shelton family scandals?

What has been the answer regrading Linda's daughter? Was it the diatribe of Shelley Quinn where she talked about Salome? Was Shelley referring to Linda's daughter in that monolog?

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I would suggest sis, that you take your friend's advice and go to the source. Why don't you ask shelley what she meant? She isn't hard to get ahold of.
Then why don't you contact Doug personally and ask him what he thinks about the internet allegations? And while you are at it, ask him what he thinks about Joy's ultimatum that he will Give Doug so much time to "clean house" and if Doug doesn't comply, he will basically pull out all the stops.
And since you claim you "know" Danny, a phone call should have started there months ago or a face to face before you became a certain person's accomplice in spreading all of this garbage.
Please get busy and let us know what replies and answers you get...we will be waiting.

Pinkpanther007 said:

I have gone to Danny. There were no answers, just angry comments. Very angry! I have gone to Linda. There were quiet comments stating that she would not hurt 3ABN with any further talk.

So Where, Tomatoe are the answers to the questions I have asked? Do you have them?

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mmm really? When was that? Was that in the middle of his betrayel and dissolution of his marriage? How did you approach him? I have actually seen him answer many personal questions to those who ask because they are sincere and want to know what happened. I have also seen people come at him in an attack mode and demand the answers that they wanted to hear. They usually don't get what they came for and I don't blame him.
If this was quite some time ago, why don't you call him now that the past is over and things have settled down and ask him your questions?

tomatoe said:

I would suggest sis, that you take your friend's advice and go to the source. Why don't you ask shelley what she meant? She isn't hard to get ahold of.
Then why don't you contact Doug personally and ask him what he thinks about the internet allegations? And while you are at it, ask him what he thinks about Joy's ultimatum that he will Give Doug so much time to "clean house" and if Doug doesn't comply, he will basically pull out all the stops.
And since you claim you "know" Danny, a phone call should have started there months ago or a face to face before you became a certain person's accomplice in spreading all of this garbage.
Please get busy and let us know what replies and answers you get...we will be waiting.

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I have been in communication with Danny for MANY years. I know him well.

I still haven't heard him or you give an answer to the questions I have asked above. Do you have a problem with those questions? Are you not capable of answering them? They are just questions.