Tithing/Speaking in Tongues

Originally posted by josiahdefender
"When the scriptures are silent on matters regarding pattern and conduct
we are allowed liberty. "

I'd rather error on the side of caution and flee sin then let it go and sin. Sorry.

In Christ we have liberty, let me make some examples of my thinking so as to clarify to all that liberty is not sin, nor would a believer think that liberty is sin.
1. When one comes to the house of God with a women is she shaved on her head? or is she covered? Is she wearing a dress or pants?
Paul said that the "Churches have no such custom", therefore LIBERTY is granted were other scriptures would allow for freedom.
2 As I said earlier in another post, that variations in administration is
LIBERTY which was how prophecy was handled in different churches.
3. How about the LIBERTY of how a service is ordered? Can it be preaching-worship-altarcall? Can it be Worship-announcements-preaching-altarcall-fellowship? Can it be Preaching-giving-fellowship? These are liberties that the SCRIPTURES are silent about, nevertheless we may do them in which order we please and God is glorified.
Our dress, our manner, our race, our relationship with God may all be different, yet God required no set pattern or manner to perform ANY SERVICE TO HIM.
As to sin, what sin would you be refering too? I would never advocate sin
in any manner in any way. Liberty is not to be used as a means of LICENSE to walk after the flesh, but is what Im saying here license to sin? No.
Rather it is freedom from sin, and freedom from forms and rituals that have no power and can do nothing to make us closer to our Lord.

Lastly I would remark that it is never the intent of believers to step beyond
clearly understood precept from scripture. But where scripture is silent we may have liberty.
Josiah

Click to expand...

Thanks Josiah, you are quite correct.

Where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty! 

And I'd rather make a mistake, then disobey God.   People need to remember the 3 servants that were given talents.  The one who buried it due to fear was called "wicked".

The only people who are not making mistakes are those who are doing nothing. 

"Lastly I would remark that it is never the intent of believers to step beyond
clearly understood precept from scripture. But where scripture is silent we may have liberty.
"

I agree, but in terms of tongues the scriptures are not slient. they are quite clear about it. don't do it unless you have an interperter, and only one at a time. If you want to misuse them in "liberty" that's not biblical at all.

well said Josiah and Quaffie!

Originally posted by Andrew
well said Josiah and Quaffie!

Click to expand...

Thanks Andrew,

It never ceases to stump me how those who don't cook think they can instruct those who do 

It never ceases to stump me how those who don't cook think they can instruct those who do

Click to expand...

 

I'll have to remember that one...

its pretty easy when you have the ultimate cook book

When the cook book tells you to use a pinch or a dash and you don't have a clue, well... your still lost.

"When the cook book tells you to use a pinch or a dash and you don't have a clue, well... your still lost.
"

That's why in this case the "cook book" is very specfic about how much to use, when to use it and why to use it.

The cook book would be written for those who have ears to hear, just like the bible.

Then there are those who are just backseat drivers. There afraid to get behind the wheel, but they won't hasitate to tell you how to drive. Somethings just require experience. Like baking a cake. Some without experience might yell for joy that they got the recipe right only to see the cake fall in the oven.

Dear Louisbooth:

I fully agree with your statement that tongues/prophecy/interpetation
must be done decently and in order.
Order and restraint so that EDIFICATION may have its full effect, and so that God may receive all Glory is paramount to operation of the gifts which we have of God.
The spirit of the prophets are subject to the prophets, how wonderful is the working of God! We are moved by the Spirit to do his will, yet always
are we "undercontrol" of ourselves so that what we do is a true sacrifice, obedience or worship. The abuses of some, that have cause so much stir concerning operation of the Gifts has led to their rebuke by the rest of the body of believers. They that are teachable will heed the rebuke to
govern themselves with respect for the body and honor to Christ.

It is also understood that liberties such as "howling" "kicking chairs"
"roaring" and such like that have no interpetation so-to-say
go beyond spiritual liberty and showing itself as religious flesh.
Spiritual leadership must recognize that "religious flesh" can operate quite
happily even though genuine liberty and gifting is in operation.
The litmus test for this is simply "Is the attention being taken AWAY from Christ and place upon themselves"? if this is true, leadership should
instruct those persons that they have given place to fleshly indulgence
when the purpose of "public displays of worshipping" CENTER on honoring Christ WITH A MESSAGE or ACTION of edification for the believers AND a clear testimony of Gods presents being revered.

The fact that church services sometime denote a kind of "playground" in which believers may behave after some manner that is acceptable with leadership doesnt necessarily PROVE that agreement with scriptures is automatic. It is right that we govern ourselves by study of scripture and exhorting one another on how we might ALWAYS show godly fear and intense devotion to our Lord.
Iam a Charismatic/pentecostal believer. But I have no tolerance for "fleshly
religion" that seeks to again the approval of men because it "looks"
like something authentic from God.
I fully understand the rebuke of my bapist brothers who just whince at
what is allowed under the guise of "the power of God".
But with that said I will not remove tongue or prophecy from the service because of abuses of some, in fact the letters to the corinthians were "corrections" to THEIR ABUSES. I will seek orderly proper edification for the flock as well as seeing how God uses others in different ways
to glorify himself through them.
Josiah

Wow, I did'nt think things could go so far with that "cooking issue".  It came to me just at the moment I wrote it.  

What's the point of the cook book, having all the right measurements and then not cooking?  But yet, always ready to criticize those who are at least trying. 

Again, the only one's who are not making mistakes are those who are doing nothing.

"Somethings just require experience. "

Good thing tongues don't require experience, we have it all in the bible

"But with that said I will not remove tongue or prophecy from the service because of abuses of some, in fact the letters to the corinthians were "corrections" to THEIR ABUSES. "

Exactly, BUT those are guidlines set down for us to follow, not to be tossed to the roadside in an attempt to please people. That's whY i keep posting about them. It is wrong to have a service where more then one person speaks in tongues at a time because that's what the bible says.

That what your interpretation of one scripture says to you.

Please try not to run down every one elses view point with an all inclusive phrase that makes you look like the only authority on the scriptures. Its fine to have different opinions, but the scripture is open to interpretation with out the Holy Spirit teaching. To say that you have a monopoly on what the word says is to say that the rest of us don't have the Holy Spirit or the ability to listen. That's very insulting.

Originally posted by SnuP
That what your interpretation of one scripture says to you.

Please try not to run down every one elses view point with an all inclusive phrase that makes you look like the only authority on the scriptures. Its fine to have different opinions, but the scripture is open to interpretation with out the Holy Spirit teaching. To say that you have a monopoly on what the word says is to say that the rest of us don't have the Holy Spirit or the ability to listen. That's very insulting.

Click to expand...

Well said Snup and I agree whole heartedly.

I've heard so many different versions of this same scripture and each makes sense at the time.  No one has the only interpretation to any scripture.  I belive that's why we are told to "work out our own salvation with fear and trembling".  We each will answer to God for ourselves.

"That what your interpretation of one scripture says to you."

Umm...that's what the text says by itself. if i say , "don't eat turkey after sundown" there is no interpreation needed. The text here is self-explanitory.

"I've heard so many different versions of this same scripture and each makes sense at the time.Ê No one has the only interpretation to any scripture.Ê"

AMEN Quaffie! The Word truly comes alive and is dynamic when the Holy Spirit is involved.

Originally posted by greekgal
A couple of questions here:

1) If we tithe less than 10% of our income to our church, is this an abdomination in God's eyes?
2) I have heard of (and do believe) that some people have the gift of tongues. If we don't have such a gift, does that make us less of a Christian?

Click to expand...

1. No. By teaching his disciples that the widow who gave her 2c gave more than the rich who proportionatey gave much less (Mark 12), Jesus was saying we should give out of our poverty. The pharisees loved to literally divide everything they had into an exact 10% amount and prided themselves on that 10% they so exactly gave.

But Jesus admired the widow - she gave her best to God, not the leftovers. the principle is more important - if you wish to use 10% that's fine, but however you do it, give your best to God. And according to Malachi 3:6-12, see if God will not just flood you with blessings when you do so. It's a wonderful promise - give your best to God, and God will give you even more in which to give away to Him!

2. Yes, some do. Not all, but all could potentially. If you do, you are not more spiritual, more better, more mature, more holy or godly - you simply have another language in which to praise God, a gracious gift of the Holy Spirit. Those who do should not lord it over those who don't, and those who don't should be encouraged to seek the gift by believing and being convinced that if they ask they really could receive spiritual gifts, including tongues.

1 Corinthians 14:1 Paul says to eagerly desire spiritual gifts. He does not forbid tongues. It edifies one's spirit, it is a language between you and God, one does not know what they are saying as it is not a language of the mind but from our spirits directly to God's Spirit. It enables us to pray, praise and sing to God where our normal words fail. It helps us to pray when we don't know how or what to pray. There are guidelines in a church setting - if spoken in church it should be interpreted so that the rest of the church can understand. If you don't know the interpretation you are encouraged to pray for it.

It's a wonderful and much shunned gift that shouldn't be. A spiritual language in which to speak to God and be edified so that we can be effective in our christian walk is a wonderful thing. And a gift of grace.

blessings,

2) I have heard of (and do believe) that some people have the gift of tongues. If we don't have such a gift, does that make us less of a Christian?

Click to expand...

It does not make you less of a christian, It does mean that less of you is Christ like. The gift of tongues proves that the Holy Spirit has been released into more areas of your life, then someone without it.