Saved by faith alone?

Gerry · Sep 5, 2002

LOL. I love it. A thread starts out with such a simple premise and it evolves into a completey different subject.

Christins are the best in the world at taking an extremely simple subject and making it too complicated to even deal with. lol

God help us.

eldermike · Sep 5, 2002

Gerry,

That is funny, we need help for sure. Thanks for that.

Blessings to you

eldermike · Sep 5, 2002

We are saved!! Praise God! Let's get on with doing His work.

cougan · Sep 6, 2002

When and where did the subject change. The topic are you saved by faith alone is not correct. You are not saved by faith ALONE. You have been presented with logical and easy to understand points that you must also repent and confess Jesus as Lord and be baptized in order to enter into a saved condition. Then you must remain a faithful christian until you die to remain in a saved condition. If you fail to accept the truth it is on your own head because you have been presented the truth and that is all that can be done. Its left up to what do with it. I hope and pray that you will see the overwhelmeing evidence that you are not saved by faith alone.

The Bible is Right · Sep 6, 2002

Amen my brother amen!

THE BIBLE IS RIGHT

LouisBooth · Sep 6, 2002

We are saved by faith alone. For grace is that powerful! Praise God for his grace.

cougan · Sep 6, 2002

LB I like how you back up what you say with Gods word. Where does it say that we are saved by faith ALONE. The bible definately tells us that we are saved by faith, and I completly agree with that, but it never says we are saved by faith ALONE. I dont even think that you belive what you are claiming LB. Do you understand what faith ALONE actually means. It means that all I have to be saved is to belive that Jesus is the son God. I don't have to repent of my old ways I can just keep on doing ever sin in the book as long as belive that Jesus is Lord. I don't have to go to church or pray or confess Jesus as Lord. I can lie, cheat murder or whatever since I am saved by Faith ALONE. If this is not the case then why not?

Thunderchild · Sep 7, 2002

The saving of 8 persons through the flood is an antitype of the baptism that now saves us. Surely that is clear enough declaration that baptism has a role to play in salvation.

As to works based salvation - "Saved by works alone" is as surely refuted by scripture as "saved by faith alone." Those who love God are saved. Those who do not love God are not saved.

How do we know this as a certainty?

Rom 8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to [his] purpose.

The very passage that shows nothing can separate us from the love of God begins with the declaration that the "us" referred to is the ones who love God.

Ben johnson · Sep 8, 2002

The very passage that shows nothing can separate us from the love of God begins with the declaration that the "us" referred to is the ones who love God.

Awesome, TC!

Clapclapclap!

Elnaam · Sep 8, 2002

Originally posted by The Bible is Right
What evidents do you have to say he was not baptized?

Mark 1:5 And there went out unto him ALL the land of Judaea, and they of Jerusalem, and were ALL baptized of him in the river of Jordan, confessing their sins.

Do you know for sure, that he was not one of the ALL in this number?

Larry, I don't wish to sound arrogrant but how in the world could a man hanging on a cross be baptized in water?

Elnaam · Sep 8, 2002

Originally posted by The Bible is Right
Do a careful study of Eph. 2:1-11 and see if you come to the same conclusion.

Find out what it means to be raised up to sit with Christ.  Or to be quickened together with Christ.  Find out where in the bible that is saids we have been raised with Christ. 

Peter is not writing his letter to unbelievers but to those that are already saved. Eph 2:1-11 states nothing about baptism saving anyone.

Elnaam · Sep 8, 2002

Originally posted by cougan
LB I like how you back up what you say with Gods word. Where does it say that we are saved by faith ALONE. The bible definately tells us that we are saved by faith, and I completly agree with that, but it never says we are saved by faith ALONE.

The Bible never states we are saved by anything else either therefore we are saved by faith alone.

I dont even think that you belive what you are claiming LB. Do you understand what faith ALONE actually means. It means that all I have to be saved is to belive that Jesus is the son God. I don't have to repent of my old ways I can just keep on doing ever sin in the book as long as belive that Jesus is Lord. I don't have to go to church or pray or confess Jesus as Lord. I can lie, cheat murder or whatever since I am saved by Faith ALONE. If this is not the case then why not?

Click to expand...

Yeah but why would you? Once you are convicted of your sin, and it takes having faith to realizes that Jesus is who He says He is surely you are convicted to your very inner being then comes repentance, why would anyong continue to sin?

Elnaam · Sep 8, 2002

Originally posted by Thunderchild
The saving of 8 persons through the flood is an antitype of the baptism that now saves us. Surely that is clear enough declaration that baptism has a role to play in salvation.

The only role that it plays is doing it out of obedience and testamony. Baptism does not save anyone.

The Bible is Right · Sep 9, 2002

Originally posted by Elnaam
Larry, I don't wish to sound arrogrant but how in the world could a man hanging on a cross be baptized in water?

My point is that in Mark 1:5 "all of the people in Judaea, and they of Jerusalem, and were all baptized of him in the river of Jordan, confessing thier sins".

This was before the thief was on the cross, and what you see when he was on the cross with Jesus, is that he the thief repented of his sins and then he asked Jesus to remember him when Jesus went into his kingdom.  Now I'm not saying for sure that the thief was baptized, I'm saying it was possiable that earlyer in his life he could have been among the "all" in Mark 1:5 and then went astay into a life of sin and was arested and hanged on the roman cross.

The Bible is Right · Sep 9, 2002

Originally posted by Elnaam
The only role that it plays is doing it out of obedience and testamony. Baptism does not save anyone.

You say that "Baptism does not save anyone" Can you prove that with the bible?  I know that you can't, and there is not one person that you or I know who can prove it with the bible.

If one's sins are washed away is that person saved?

The Bible is Right · Sep 9, 2002

Originally posted by Elnaam
Peter is not writing his letter to unbelievers but to those that are already saved. Eph 2:1-11 states nothing about baptism saving anyone.

Do you mean Paul and not Peter?

You are right about who Paul is writing to, the member of the body of Christ, these people have already been baptized into Christ, so they understood what Paul was talking about when he said "not of works lest any man should boast" and they understood what he was talking about when he said "by grace are you saved through faith" and they knew he was not talking about baptism in this text, that's why baptism is not mentioned, because they had already done that through faith, that's why when Paul started the 2nd chapter he said and "you hath HE "quickened" who were dead in trespasses and sin". 

aggie03 · Sep 9, 2002

Maybe Mark 16:16 would help out this discussion:

"He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved, but he who has disbelieved shall be condemned."

This is a pretty straight forward statement about baptism being necessary. Yes it is also necessary to have faith. Why is this faith necessary - if you take a bath you aren't doing that with the faith that your sins will be forgiven, that you are being buried into the death of Christ and being born into His ressurection - you are just taking a bath. If you are baptized without this faith then all that you are doing is taking a bath. It is faith that leads you to the water, both belief and baptism are necessary.

Also, consider the Acts 2:37,38:

37 Now when they heard this, they were pierced to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, "Brethren, what shall we do?"

38 Peter said to them, "Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

The passage states that they were pierced to the heart - this is because they had faith the Jesus was the Christ, the Messiah, the Son of God. Otherwise why would they be concerned for killing someone who deserved death under the law of Moses? They realized who Jesus was, they had faith that He was ressurrected, and they also realized that this faith wsa not enough - why else would they ask what must we do? Peter answers this when he tells them to repent and be baptized. Peter tells them this because he knew the message that Christ Himself spoke earlier: "He who believes and is baptized shall be saved."

LouisBooth · Sep 9, 2002

"Do you understand what faith ALONE actually means. It means that all I have to be saved is to belive that Jesus is the son God. I don't have to repent of my old ways I can just keep on doing ever sin in the book as long as belive that Jesus is Lord. "

That's right, because if you have to do those, then you have to also specify a minimum, opps, you ddin't go to church this week, you're going to hell or opps, you didn't repent right away from that sin, you're going to hell. I see in the bible that the ONLY thing that condemns you if you don't have it is faith. Everything else is covered by Grace

Now are those things you shouldn't have? Nope. They are AFTER the salvation event though. That's what the bible says, so that's what I say.

Faith is all that is needed, thus faith alone, and yes, the bible does say that just read John 3, no faith you're condemned, you have faith, you're not condemned.

LouisBooth · Sep 9, 2002

"Maybe Mark 16:16 "

Most older manuscripts DON'T have this passage so using this as the SOLE verse to base this ESSENTIAL docterine on is NOT a good idea. As for the acts passage, yup, that's right, you should be baptised, but it is not nessisary.

Thunderchild · Sep 9, 2002

Maybe Mark 16:16 would help out this discussion:

"He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved, but he who has disbelieved shall be condemned."

Click to expand...

Most older manuscripts DON'T have this passage so using this as the SOLE verse to base this ESSENTIAL docterine on is NOT a good idea. As for the acts passage, yup, that's right, you should be baptised, but it is not nessisary.

You have an interesting concept of counting, Louis Booth.

ACTS 2:38 Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Now we have here: The requirement to repent, and the requirement to be baptised. No mention is made of faith, nor of grace. The baptism referred to is the baptism into the name of Jesus Christ - it achieves the remission of sins (just like 1 Peter declares). And moreover, it declares that receiving the gift of the Holy Spirit follows upon repentance and baptism. Which gift is referred to here? - quite clearly it is not baptism into the Holy Spirit, because that is done in other places, prior to baptism.

From the first, the apostles taught that it is necessary to repent and to produce works in keeping with repentance.

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