25 years in Faith Movement:The TRUTH

Originally posted by LouisBooth
[BNope. If you're a christian you are NEVER out of his protection.
[/B]

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Of course, this depends a lot on how you define a "Christian" in the first place.

love in Christ,

Malcolm

Num 35:25-28 The assembly must protect the one accused of murder from the avenger of blood and send him back to the city of refuge to which he fled. He must stay there until the death of the high priest, who was anointed with the holy oil. (26) "'But if the accused ever goes outside the limits of the city of refuge to which he has fled (27) and the avenger of blood finds him outside the city, the avenger of blood may kill the accused without being guilty of murder. (28) The accused must stay in his city of refuge until the death of the high priest; only after the death of the high priest may he return to his own property.

Dear All,

Someone spoke evil.
Or did not pat what they owed.
Or murdered.
Or failed to forgive.
Or one could say any sin or wrongdoing.

God deals with each of His children in a way as to bring them to repentence, even as we earthly fathers chastise our children and sometimes let them recieve the brunt of their bad decision.

So it seems that the word 'protection' here is being used in different ways.

One way it is being used is to describe how a loving father keeps watch over his children, always protecting them from irrepairable harm. Such protection is never lifted.

But it is also being used to describe protection from repairable harm. Such protection can be lifted.

The example of both of these is in these:
1 Tim 1
20 of whom are Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I did deliver to the Adversary, that they might be instructed not to speak evil.
1 Cor 5
I have delievered such a man to Satan for the destruction of his body, that his spirit may be saved on the day of the Lord Jesus.


In both cases the protection of the 2nd kind has been lifted. [delivered over to the adversary]

In both cases there is a reason: to be taught not to lie, and to save the spirit.

In especially in the second case, we see that the greater protection [to save the spirit] has not been lifted.

Sometimes it is all depends on where you put your focus.

In Jesu salone,
mike

John 15:
1I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman. 2Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit. 3Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you. 4Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. 5I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing. 6If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned. 7If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you. 8Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples.

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Look at verse two, here is an example of the second case that jmwhite spoke about (and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it), but also in this passage is a third case (2Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away) and in verse 6 (If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned). Notice in verse 2 that the branch is already in Christ (saved) but is taken away because it bears no fruit. In verse 6 that branch is then thrown into the fire. the verse also says that the branch withers, it withers because it no longer has the life of Christ. This branch has lost the pertection of God, infact it has been rejected of God for its lack os fruit.

*chuckles* thanks for proving my point guys. A faithful christian can be "delievered" out of God's protect but still be in his will and thus be sick, hurt, etc. thus, you can be sick and still be perfectly in God's will and it might be his will for you to be that way.

woo hoo! Yup, way to bring it all together Louis

Maybe there is something that you don't understand. God has desires for us. Desires to bring us into perfection. But man resist God's perfect will and therefore God must show man the foolishness of his choices, that he may chose life. God always offers life but man rarely takes it. God prefers the easy road for us. That we would just submit and alow perfection to just follow thru us. But we chose the hard road. Case two is the hard road. The road of nonsubmission, learning by suffering.

Spanking my child is not my desire for my child. But it is my will that she learn obedience. I would rather that she just submit, but I can not just wish her into submission. She must chose it. And if it takes years of spanking than I am willing to step up to the task. In the end, she will know the way she should go. When sickness comes your way it is to teach you that you are not in the perfect will of God, and to lead you back to trusting Him completely. When sickness comes it is because you are not trusting God, you have placed something else before Him. You can have all the faith in the world that God will heal you, but the thing that stands between you and God must be removed before the healing can manifest. This is why I say that you will not get healed until God speaks it.

Why do people not get healed? (It's the same reason that they got sick in the first place.)

1. lack of faith
2. lack of trust
3. lack of fellowship
4. lack of obedience
5. lack of submission
6. lack of humility

It all boils down to the root of the sickness, the open door. You don't have to have all six, just the one that allowed the sickness in the first place. You got to be willing to face what it is that God wants to show you. And then repent. The only way to never get sick is to remain in right standing with God.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that God disciplines with sickness. But rather that He allows our choices to cause sickness. In otherwords. If you don't remain in the light you reap from the darkness.

Dear Snup,

quote:
Look at verse two, here is an example of the second case that jmwhite spoke about (and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it), but also in this passage is a third case (2Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away) and in verse 6 (If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned). Notice in verse 2 that the branch is already in Christ (saved) but is taken away because it bears no fruit. In verse 6 that branch is then thrown into the fire. the verse also says that the branch withers, it withers because it no longer has the life of Christ. This branch has lost the pertection of God, infact it has been rejected of God for its lack os fruit.

I disagree with your analysis. Branches can only bear fruit if the sap is running to them from the root. A branch that doesn't bear fruit does so because their is no internal life of the sap in it. Consider that all men [as all things] are created by God through the Word [Jesus]. Only those with the internal life of the Spirit will bear fruit. Those without the Spirit will not bear fruit and will be thrown into the fire.

Your analysis makes our salvation dependent on our works and not on the unmerited grace of God.

Fruit is the result of the Spirit's indwelling. No fruit, no indwelling. No indwelling, no salvation.

No... It makes it dependent on the life of Christ remaining in us.

Romans 11:
17If some of the branches have been broken off, and you, though a wild olive shoot, have been grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing sap from the olive root, 18do not boast over those branches. If you do, consider this: You do not support the root, but the root supports you. 19You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I could be grafted in.” 20Granted. But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but be afraid. 21For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either.
22Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off. 23And if they do not persist in unbelief, they will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. 24After all, if you were cut out of an olive tree that is wild by nature, and contrary to nature were grafted into a cultivated olive tree, how much more readily will these, the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree!

"Case two is the hard road. The road of nonsubmission, learning by suffering. "

and I totally disagree. He didn't save people in the bible from suffereing when they wanted the 'easy' road, Job for example. There are 2 roads, God's way and not God's way. Sometimes you go through hardship and troubles and even sickness and that is God's plan. You have to rely on him to get you through it. He lets you get sick for a reason, sends things at you for a reason. The storm came up FOR A REASON. he never says you won't walk through the vally of the shadow of death, just that he will be with you when you do.

"Why do people not get healed? (It's the same reason that they got sick in the first place.)

1. lack of faith
2. lack of trust
3. lack of fellowship
4. lack of obedience
5. lack of submission
6. lack of humility
"
I agree with that just add 7. Because God doesn't want them to be healed yet.

"Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that God disciplines with sickness. "

Really? Hmm...wonders what the plagues in the OT were all about then.

Originally posted by hobart schmedly

[quote][So this is how I came to this paraphrase of Rom 10:17:

"Belief comes by being spiritually aware of truth, and being spiritually aware of truth is achieved by a spoken word of Christ"

I expand "hearing" to "spiritually aware of truth" because the passage is saying it is not sense knowledge "hearing" with the ears that causes one to believe. ] 

  [/B]

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I find what you said here interesting, can you tell me how do you view Mark 16:15-16?

7th September 2002 at 04:25 PM SnuP said this in Post #351

No... It makes it dependent on the life of Christ remaining in us.

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Great point!

I heard Dr. James Dobson(focus on the family) say today or yesturday. How he thought the WOF people were wrong, basicly. Saying that they do these healings with selected people, and have people like Joni Eric Sentata(sp?) sit in the back.

But then turned right around and told how he recieved a healing from his stroke. I also heard a guest, MVP Oral Hershiser give an awesome testimony of a healing.

So he believes in healings, but apparently once in awhile, based on his experiences. Because it certianly isn't based on the bible.

Jesus went around healing, and casting out demons in thousands, and thousands, all the time, in his 3 year ministry. Then the apostles followed suit. There is the gifts of healing spoken about.

We in a way are gods, because we are children of God, indwelled with the Holy Spirit. We have power, given to us by grace, but we need to work it through faith.

If your friend wants to stay in that chair, so be it. But thats not me, when some kind of pain, sickness, whatever comes on me, ITS FIGHT TIME!
Because I fight the good fight of faith. I'm not going to live there in defeat!Screw all that junk, I have faith, and that faith has made a difference in my life, and has radiated in the lives around me.

Do you need it? NOPE you don't, but its better to have it, and there are witnesses here to testify to it.