Saved by faith alone?

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Originally posted by eldermike
REV 22:17 The Spirit and the bride say, "Come!" And let him who hears say, "Come!" Whoever is thirsty, let him come; and whoever wishes, let him take the free gift of the water of life.

1PE 3:7 Husbands, in the same way be considerate as you live with your wives, and treat them with respect as the weaker partner and as heirs with you of the gracious gift of life, so that nothing will hinder your prayers.

JAS 1:16 Don't be deceived, my dear brothers. 17 Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, who does not change like shifting shadows. 18 He chose to give us birth through the word of truth, that we might be a kind of firstfruits of all he created.

EPH 2:8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God-- 9 not by works, so that no one can boast.

2CO 9: 15 Thanks be to God for his indescribable gift!

RO 6: 23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

RO 5:15 But the gift is not like the trespass. For if the many died by the trespass of the one man, how much more did God's grace and the gift that came by the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ, overflow to the many! 16 Again, the gift of God is not like the result of the one man's sin: The judgment followed one sin and brought condemnation, but the gift followed many trespasses and brought justification. 17 For if, by the trespass of the one man, death reigned through that one man, how much more will those who receive God's abundant provision of grace and of the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man, Jesus Christ.

RO 5:18 Consequently, just as the result of one trespass was condemnation for all men, so also the result of one act of righteousness was justification that brings life for all men. 19 For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.

RO 5:20 The law was added so that the trespass might increase. But where sin increased, grace increased all the more, 21 so that, just as sin reigned in death, so also grace might reign through righteousness to bring eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

RO 4:4 Now when a man works, his wages are not credited to him as a gift, but as an obligation. 5 However, to the man who does not work but trusts God who justifies the wicked, his faith is credited as righteousness. 6 David says the same thing when he speaks of the blessedness of the man to whom God credits righteousness apart from works:

RO 4:7 "Blessed are they
whose transgressions are forgiven,
whose sins are covered.

RO 4:8 Blessed is the man
whose sin the Lord will never count against him."

AC 11:15 "As I began to speak, the Holy Spirit came on them as he had come on us at the beginning. 16 Then I remembered what the Lord had said: `John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.' 17 So if God gave them the same gift as he gave us, who believed in the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I to think that I could oppose God?"

AC 8:18 When Simon saw that the Spirit was given at the laying on of the apostles' hands, he offered them money 19 and said, "Give me also this ability so that everyone on whom I lay my hands may receive the Holy Spirit."

AC 8:20 Peter answered: "May your money perish with you, because you thought you could buy the gift of God with money! 21 You have no part or share in this ministry, because your heart is not right before God

JN 4:10 Jesus answered her, "If you knew the gift of God and who it is that asks you for a drink, you would have asked him and he would have given you living water."

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First, let me say that you brought up some great scripture.  The bottom line is, Jesus Christ is the gift of God.

Now with all you said by the scriptures you presented, this is what I learned, All authority has been given to Jesus Christ.  Matt.28:18-19; Mark 16:15-20; Luke 24:45-49, He is the gift that God gave to us, by his life.  We are to obey Jesus Christ, Heb.5:8-9 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered; 9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal SALVATION UNTO ALL THEM THAT OBEY HIM.  Mark 16:15-20 And he said unto them, Go ye into ALL the WORLD and PREACH the GOSPEL to EVERY CREATURE.  16 HE that BELIEVETH and IS BAPTIZED SHALL BE SAVED; BUT he that believeth not shall be damned.

Now to you this scripture saids, He that believeth is SAVED, and can be BAPTIZED if he wants too, or when ever He wants too.  Who's right you or Jesus?

For some reason I take it that you do not think baptism is in the same package or gift that God gave to us.  But Titus 2:11 saids,  For the Grace of God that bringeth SALVATION hath appeared to ALL MEN,

12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;

Jesus Christ is the Grace that brought Salvation!  And what is being dismissed, is what Jesus tells us to do to be SAVED through the words of the apostles Mark 16:20 And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen.

Where did this begin?  In Jerusalem on the day of Pentecost, Peter preached the first sermon Acts 2:14-40.  Then when the Jews heard what Peter had preached, They were prick in the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, WHAT SHALL WE DO?  But I'll let you give the answer to their question, and if your answer is different from the answer Peter gave, then we will know who is teaching the TRUTH about Baptism.  What is your answer?  Remember the answer to their question is God's GIFT OF SALVATION.

Bible,

Jesus is God. The gift is salvation. Jesus is God, right?

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Originally posted by eldermike
Bible,

Jesus is God. The gift is salvation. Jesus is God, right?

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God the Son.

Not the Father.

What is you answer to my last post?

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Originally posted by LouisBooth
"Repentence, confessing Jesus as Lord and Baptism also save you"

so tell me what if you live in a desert and water is very very scarce. Can you not be saved at all?

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Acts 8:26-39 is your answer to the desert question, if you want to do what God tells you to do to be SAVED he will make a way.

 

 

. Mark 16:15-20 And he said unto them, Go ye into ALL the WORLD and PREACH the GOSPEL to EVERY CREATURE. 16 HE that BELIEVETH and IS BAPTIZED SHALL BE SAVED; BUT he that believeth not shall be damned.

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MK 16:15 He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the good news to all creation. 16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned. 17 And these signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues; 18 they will pick up snakes with their hands; and when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at all; they will place their hands on sick people, and they will get well."

Do you see the word "water" in this scripture? No
Do you see the word baptize? yes

MT 3:11 "I baptize you with water for repentance. But after me will come one who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not fit to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire.

Do you see the word "water" in this scripture? yes
Do you see the word "baptize? yes

Baptisim by water will not save you.

Blessings

Originally posted by eldermike
MK 16:15 He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the good news to all creation. 16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned. 17 And these signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues; 18 they will pick up snakes with their hands; and when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at all; they will place their hands on sick people, and they will get well."

Do you see the word "water" in this scripture? No
Do you see the word baptize? yes

MT 3:11 "I baptize you with water for repentance. But after me will come one who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not fit to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire.

Do you see the word "water" in this scripture? yes
Do you see the word "baptize? yes

Baptisim by water will not save you.

Blessings

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If you receive remission of sins are you SAVED?  Acts 2:38

If your sins are washed away are you SAVED? Acts 22:16.

AC 2:38 Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off--for all whom the Lord our God will call."


Acts 2:16 has nothing to do with the subject.
Do you see the word "water" in Acts 2:38?

Originally posted by eldermike
AC 2:38 Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off--for all whom the Lord our God will call."


Acts 2:16 has nothing to do with the subject.
Do you see the word "water" in Acts 2:38?

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Now you are not being honest or real, when you make statement like the one above, "do you see water in Acts 2:38"  But the three thousand that were baptized that same day did!

 Acts 8:26-39 The Ethiopian eunuch saw water, was he saved?  vs. 36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?  vs.37  And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest.  And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.  vs.38  And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.  vs. 39  And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing.

Here is a classic case of SALVATION that cannot be denyed, you have the gospel preached, it was heard and believed, and excepted, you see the change of heart, and the confession of the name of Jesus Christ, and last but not least one baptized into Jesus Christ, who after he was baptized went on his way rejoicing.

You can say what you want about baptism, but you cannot deny what the eunuch has done, in the Gaza desert, and EVERYONE MUST DO THE SAME THING THAT THE EUNUCH DONE TO BE SAVED. 

IF YOU DIDN'T DO IT LIKE THIS, THEN YOU MUST DO IT BEFORE ITS TO LATE! 


Acts 22:16 is what I was refering to.  Paul had his sins washed away when was baptized in water, did you?


Paul wrote the book of Ephesians and I know he would not lie about what saves us.  You say that baptism does not save, but the bible saids it does, now who I am I to believe?  You or the bible?

THE BIBLE IS RIGHT!!

Bible,

John baptisim was for the remission of sins........Jesus died for the remission of sin.

AC 22:14 "Then he said: `The God of our fathers has chosen you to know his will and to see the Righteous One and to hear words from his mouth. 15 You will be his witness to all men of what you have seen and heard. 16 And now what are you waiting for? Get up, be baptized and wash your sins away, calling on his name.'

Do you see the word "water" in Ac 22:14:16?

AC 2:38 Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ

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Hmmm. I don't see any mention of faith nor yet of grace in that passage either. Do I see mention of water in that passage? Lemme see now...By what means is a person baptised into the name of Jesus Christ? Surely that can't be by means of water now, can it? So what is baptism into the name of Christ Jesus?

Acts 8: 14-17 Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John: Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost: (For as yet he (the Holy Spirit) was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.) Then laid they [their] hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.

Act 10:44 - 48 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter, Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Or were these people baptised into the Holy Spirit, and into the name of the Lord, and also with water? Or is it possible that being baptised into the name of the Lord involved water?

I will repeat my position. A saved person should be baptized in water.

Not a single scripture posted thus far connects water baptisim to salvation.

I am also puzzled about something. A true works docrtine never allows for salvation, it's always a work in progress. Why would a works doctrine person argue that anything in itself yields salvation when you don't beleive it does? Just curious

Originally posted by eldermike
Bible,

John baptisim was for the remission of sins........Jesus died for the remission of sin.

AC 22:14 "Then he said: `The God of our fathers has chosen you to know his will and to see the Righteous One and to hear words from his mouth. 15 You will be his witness to all men of what you have seen and heard. 16 And now what are you waiting for? Get up, be baptized and wash your sins away, calling on his name.'

Do you see the word "water" in Ac 22:14:16?

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ONE MORE TIME, you are not being honest about this subject, will you also deny Acts 8:26-39?  Please look at vs. 36 and make your statement about water, God is not a respecter of persons, what he told them to do to be saved in the first century, applys to us also, THERE IS NO WAY AROUND IT.  WE MUST DO WHAT GOD SAID.

You mention that we must humble ourselves before God, and aloud his Spirit to guide us, now will you take your own advice?

Acts 8:26-39 is a classic case that cannot be denied, the water is there, salvation is there, remission of sins is there, washed away sins are there, forgiveness of sins are there, and for those who would bring up the "what if" you were in the desert cases, here is the answer from God.

The real question is, do you have (faith only) to believe what the bible teaches in Acts 8:26-39.

I have never denied any of scripture. I do not agree with your works doctrine but that is not a denial of scripture. Acts:26-39 says there was a baptisim, just like mine and yours. It dosn't say that without it there was no salvation.


Again my position. A saved person should be baptized.

Originally posted by cougan
Ahh the old what if question. You can come up with a ton of those. What if a person had to cross the street to be baptized and a car runs them over and kills them, were they saved? See I gave good one myself LB.

I could ask you a similar question. What if a preacher was going to preach the word of God to this man that lived in this house. The man in the house would of accepted the word of God but the man falls down the stairs while going to answer the door that the preacher was knocking at. The man dies. Would he be saved?

You see LB we could go round and round with the what if questions. Now lets give you the benifit of the doubt and say that God consisdered these people saved in these very very very rare instances WHAT DOES THAT HAVE TO DO WITH YOU? I am assuming with your story that these people in this desert were not going to be able to be dipped into water before they died because they were lost or something. I can tell you doesnt take that much water to fill a tub or that deep of a pond to be able to submerge someone. Again I ask what does that have to do with you? Are you being killed as your going to be baptized? Are you lost in a desert when you decide to become a christian and cant find water before you die? All I can tell you LB is that the bible clearly states that it is at the point of baptism that our sins are removed and that we are joined together with Christ through our obedience of faith. Anything beyond that is up to God.

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What? Where? Chp and verse. Baptism is not necessary for salvation, faith however is! Ah reminder the Theft on the cross was not baptized. Baptism means to immerse. And that is not neccessarily via water.

Originally posted by eldermike
I have never denied any of scripture. I do not agree with your works doctrine but that is not a denial of scripture. Acts:26-39 says there was a baptisim, just like mine and yours. It dosn't say that without it there was no salvation.


Again my position. A saved person should be baptized.

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Yes a saved person should be baptized but baptism is not what saves a person, then again I know you and I agree. Blessings

Originally posted by eldermike
I have never denied any of scripture. I do not agree with your works doctrine but that is not a denial of scripture. Acts:26-39 says there was a baptisim, just like mine and yours. It dosn't say that without it there was no salvation.


Again my position. A saved person should be baptized.

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Why do you ask where is the water when a text has baptism or baptized in it, when you know what it means to be baptized, haven been baptized yourself?

And why didn't you say where's the water in Acts 8:26-39 the conversion of the Ethiopian eunuch?

This is the perfect example of how one can become a christian, born of the water and of the spirit.  All of the elements are there, that we must do to be saved.

Hearing the gospel

Believing the gospel

Repenting of one's sins

Confessing the name of Jesus Christ

Buried with him in baptism

All can be founded in this conversion of the Ethiopian eunuch.  This is what the bible teaches and we should aways teach it too.

Originally posted by franklin
WHAT DOES THE BIBLE TEACH ABOUT FAITH ONLY?

 
The bible clearly teaches that we are saved by faith. Can we therefore conclude that we are saved by faith only? In reality, the bible teaches that there are many things by which we are saved. Consider the following:

1. We are saved by grace (Ephesians 2:8): "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God." Are we saved by grace only?

2. We are saved by hope (Romans 8:24-5): "For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for? But if we hope for that we see not, [then] do we with patience wait for [it]." Are we saved by hope only?

3. We are saved by faith (John 3:16): "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved." Are we saved by faith only?

4. We are saved by faith and baptism (Mark 16:16): "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned." Can we be saved by faith if we refuse to be baptized? Can we be saved by baptism if we fail to believe?

5. We are saved by baptism (1 Peter 3:21): "The like figure whereunto [even] baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ." Are we saved by baptism only?

This is just a partial list, but it demonstrates some things about the doctrine of faith only.  Is there a definition in the scriptures that clearly explains the true doctrine of faith only?  The words faith and only come together only once in the bible. (James 2:14-26)

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Peter is speaking to those already saved! Not those about to be saved. We are saved by GRACE through faith. Through: by means of. So it is faith that triggers God's Grace.

Originally posted by Elnaam
What? Where? Chp and verse. Baptism is not necessary for salvation, faith however is! Ah reminder the Theft on the cross was not baptized. Baptism means to immerse. And that is not neccessarily via water.

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What evidents do you have to say he was not baptized?

Mark 1:5 And there went out unto him ALL the land of Judaea, and they of Jerusalem, and were ALL baptized of him in the river of Jordan, confessing their sins.

Do you know for sure, that he was not one of the ALL in this number?

Originally posted by Elnaam
What? Where? Chp and verse. Baptism is not necessary for salvation, faith however is! Ah reminder the Theft on the cross was not baptized. Baptism means to immerse. And that is not neccessarily via water.

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What evidence do you have to show that he was not baptized?

Mark 1:5 And there went out unto him ALL the land of Judaea, and they of Jerusalem, and were ALL BAPTIZED of him in the river of Jordan, confessing their sins.

How do you know the theif was not in this great number of people?

Originally posted by Elnaam
Peter is speaking to those already saved! Not those about to be saved. We are saved by GRACE through faith. Through: by means of. So it is faith that triggers God's Grace.

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Do a careful study of Eph. 2:1-11 and see if you come to the same conclusion.

Find out what it means to be raised up to sit with Christ.  Or to be quickened together with Christ.  Find out where in the bible that is saids we have been raised with Christ.