Co-Redeemer?

name a title of Jesus that he is not.

Click to expand...

Merciful Lamb does not appear in the Bible so it must be a superflous title of Jesus.

That we can do with out.


Peace

lionroar0 said:

BINGO!!!!!

The whole thing about Mary being called co-redemeer is that we can call her that with the correct understanding.

Not that we have to. Like we can call her Tower of Ivory. We can call her Virgins of Virgins, ect.... so on and so forth.


Peace

Click to expand...

No, the whole thing about calling mary
co-redeemer is that it's untrue.

I have a huge problem with untruths.

Now if you were to show me that I'm wrong,
I would be thrilled to embrace this title.
But in light of the Scripture I
posted above,
I can't see that happening.

And no, I'm not a sola Scripture freak.
I just happen to believe the Scripture,
as the Word of God, is true.

God said it,
I believe it.

love,
sunlover

Here's another that shows that none
but Jesus can redeem, and that none
can help Him redeem:

1 Peter 1:18-19
18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with
corruptible things, as silver and gold,
from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;
19 But with the precious blood of Christ,
as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:

Like Bene said, we can be embassadors
we can be good witnesses.
But according to Scripture, we cannot
be co redeemers.

Unless you go back in time and unless your
blood is good enough.

Benedicta00 said:

I'm not arguing against that but if it weren't for Christmass day there would be no savation for any of us- no?



Be honest with me... Just why do we celebrate Christmass and honer this day? What are we honering? The incarnation prehaps?

You have to watch that you do not fall into error or heresy. It is easy to do whe you try to cut out Mary from the eqation. This is why she is important. Becuase of the mystery that lies with in the incarnation.

You can not deny certain aspects of Mary, it leads to denying certain aspects of Christ and the incarnation.




No, becuase it wasn't... oooh... no way would I ever believe that. That is a horrible thing to believe... that God could have cared less that Mary gave her fiat...said, "Let it be done to me according to your word."

You don't agree that God is pleased with us when we serve him and do his will?

I mean my goodness... Jesus even said when we follow him and keep his word, he calls us freinds.

You think our conforming to God's will is dirty rags to him?

Wow... wow.

.

Click to expand...

as in righteousness? yes.

I do believe anything we do as it stands as righteousness is filthy rags. Even what Mary did. it made her no more righteous than anyone else.

This is the way I look at it.

An Artist has a child. Now, this artist is the greatest ever, his work is perfect, peerless, matchless. His child, after his Father, tries to follow along and be an artist too. The childs artwork is amateurish, badly done, inconsistant, etc....

The artist is pleased that the child gives their best to be like him, and to paint like him, but in no way does he view the artwork as his own.

lionroar0 said:

Merciful Lamb does not appear in the Bible so it must be a superflous title of Jesus.

That we can do with out.


Peace

Click to expand...

Oh, please. He is called both Merciful, and the Lamb.

Strike one.

Do not confuse the reason Christmas is celebrated with the Incarnation.
Celebrating birthdays is a Chaldean tradition based on Astrology. Job was making atoning sacrifices for his children's birthday parties in the opening chapter of the book that bears his name.

Classic example of confusion by equivocation.

sunlover1 said:

Redeem means to buy back, purchase.
We didn't help Jesus in redemption.
He alone redeemed us.

Your analogy, like you, is sweet and sounds
nice, but it's not the same thing, bene.

I will say that mary obeyed God,
believed God,
was higly favored,
was blessed,
was
virtuous,
was the mother of Jesus,
was full of grace even.
But I won't say that you or I or even
mary helped Jesus redeem us.

Look at what He did to redeem us.
He did it alone. No one was with Him.
No one could help Him do this:

Hebrews 9:12
12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves,
but by his own blood he entered in
once into the holy place,
having obtained eternal redemption for us.

We can't help Him obtain that.
He did it.
It was something that was done.

Read this one slowly (if you would):

Colossians 1:13-15
13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness,
and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
14 In whom we have redemption through his blood,
even the forgiveness of sins:
15 Who is the image of the invisible God,
the firstborn of every creature:

Here's another very cool passage:

Luke 21:27-28
27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming
in a cloud with power and great glory.
28 And when these things begin to come to pass,
then look up,
and lift up your heads;
for your redemption draweth nigh.

Click to expand...

Okay Sunlover... you are hung up on the word and how it is defined by Webster.. I got that.

Please stop preaching to me that I need to learn how Jesus is who saved us from sin. You do not need to teach me this for I already know it and believe it 100%.

If you disgree with the title, by all means disagree with it.

If you are one of those ambush parking lot types, then are you not ambushing in order to lead someone to Christ? Yes you are.

Now let's throw out co redeemer and you pick the title you think would be better.




.

Uphill Battle said:

Oh, please. He is called both Merciful, and the Lamb.

Strike one.

Click to expand...

But he's not called merciful Lamb in scripture.

No one walked around calling him that.

That is NOT his title according to scripture. His title is "King of the Jews" and anyone who does not refer to him by that title only adds to scripture.

NOW can you all see how silly this "it's not in scripture" premise is?

Half the stuff you all say and do isn't in there either. .

Oh, please. He is called both Merciful, and the Lamb.

Strike one.

Click to expand...

What I posted was that the Bible does not call Him Merciful Lamb. Thefore by your own logic it is a superflous title that has been added to Jesus.

Peace

Here's are other titles of Jesus not found inthe Bible.

Best friend.

King of Kings

Merciful judge

Brother.

Peace

Benedicta00 said:

But he's not called merciful Lamb in scripture.

No one walked around calling him that.

That is NOT his title according to scripture. His title is "King of the Jews" and anyone who does not refer to him by that title only adds to scripture.

NOW can you all see how silly this "it's not in scripture" premise is?

Half the stuff you all say and do isn't in there either. .

Click to expand...

how do you know what I "say and do"?

your anti-protestant roots are showing.

Most of the titles that are given to Christ are in scripture.


Adam (the last) - I Corinthians 15:45
Advocate - I John 2:1
Almighty (the) - Revelation 1:8
Alpha and Omega - Revelation 1:8,11; 21:6
Amen - Revelation 3:14
Ancient of Days - Daniel 7:22
Angel of the Lord – Exodus 3:2, 23:20,21; Judges 13:15-18; Zechariah 1:11, 12
Angel of the Presence of the Lord – Isaiah 63:9
Anointed of God – Psalm 2:2; Acts 4:26
Apostle of Our Profession – Hebrews 3:1
Author and Finisher of Faith – Hebrews 12:2
Author of Eternal Salvation – Hebrews 5:9
Beginning and the Ending – Revelation 1:8; 22:13
Beginning of the Creation of God – Revelation 3:14
Beloved of God – Ephesians 1:6
Beloved Son of God – Matthew 3:17; 17:5; Mark 1:11; 9:7; Luke 3:22; 9:35; Colossians 1:13; II Peter 1:17
Bishop of Souls – I Peter 2:25 (See Shepherd)
Blessed and only Potentate – I Timothy 6:15
Branch – Jeremiah 23:5; Zechariah 3:8; 6:12
Branch of Righteousness – Jeremiah 33:15
Bread (living) from Heaven – John 6:32-35,50, 51
Bread of Life – John 6: 35, 48
Brightness of the Glory of God – Hebrews 1:3
Brother of His Disciples – Matthew 12:50; 25:40; Mark 3:35; Hebrews 12:11, 17
Captain of Salvation – Hebrews 2:10
Captain of the Lord’s Host – Joshua 5:14,15
Chief Corner Stone – Psalm 118:22; Isaiah 28:16; Matthew 21:42; Mark 12:10; Luke 20:17; Acts 4:11; Ephesians 2:20; I Peter 2:6,7
Chief Shepherd – I Peter 5:4
Child (little) – Luke 2:12, 16 27, 40; Matthew 2:11, 13, 20
Child Jesus – Luke 2: 27,43
Christ – Matthew 1:16; 16:16, 20; 26:63; Mark 8:29; 14:61; Luke 2;11; John 6:69; 10:24, 25; 11:27; 20:31; Acts 2:36; I John 5:1
Christ of God – Luke 9:20
Christ of the Lord – Luke 2:26
Consolation of Israel – Luke 2:25
Counsellor – Isaiah 9:6
Covenant of the People – Isaiah 42:6
Covert from the Tempest – Isaiah 32:2
Creator of Israel – Isaiah 43:15
David – Jeremiah 30:9; Ezekiel 34:23; 37:24, 25; Hosea 3:5
Dayspring from on high – Luke 1:78
Deliverer – Romans 11:26(cp. Isaiah 19:20)
Desire of all Nations – Haggai 2:7
Despised and Rejected of Men – Psalm 22:6; Isaiah 53:3
Door – John 10:7,9
Elect and Chosen of God – Isaiah 42:1; Matthew 12:18; Luke 23:35
Emmanuel – Isaiah 7:14; Matthew 1:23
Ensign of the People – Isaiah 11:10
Eternal Life – I John 5:20
Everlasting Father – Isaiah 9:6
Faithful and True – Revelation 19:11
Fellow of the Lord of Hosts – Zechariah 13:7
Finisher of Faith – Hebrews 12:2
First and Last – Isaiah 44:6; Revelation 1;11, 17; 2:8; 22:13
Firstborn among many brethren – Romans 8:29
Firstborn (or First-begotten) of the dead – Colossians 1:18; Revelation 1:5
Firstborn of every creature – Colossians 1:15; Hebrews 1:6
Firstfruits of them that slept – I Corinthians 15:20,23
Forerunner – Hebrews 6:20
Foundation Stone – Isaiah 28:16; I Corinthians 3:11; Ephesians 2:20
Fountain for sin – Zechariah 13:1
Friend of Sinners – Matthew 11:10
Friend of those who do His will – John 15:13-15
Gift (Unspeakable) of God – John 4:10; II Corinthians 9:15
Glory of Israel – Luke 2:32
God – Psalm 45:6,7 and Hebrews 1;8,9; Isaiah 35:4; 40:9; John 1:1; 20:28; I Timothy 3:16; II Peter 1:1; I John 5:20
God blessed forever – Romans 9:5
God of the whole earth – Isaiah 54:5
Governor – Matthew 2:6 (See Micah 5:2)
Head of all Principality and Power – Colossians 2:10
Head of every man – I Corinthians 11:3
Head of the Church – Ephesians 1:22; 5:23; Colossians 1:18
Heir of all things – Hebrews 1:2
High priest forever after the order of Melchisedec – Psalm 110:4 and Hebrews 6:20; 7:17, 21
High priest of our Profession – Hebrews 3:1; 4:14; 6:20; 7:26
Holy Child Jesus – Acts 4:27, 30
Holy One – Acts 3:14; Revelation 3:7
Holy One of God – Mark 1:24; Luke 4:34; Acts 2:27; 13:35 and Psalm 16:10
Holy One of Israel – Isaiah 41:14; 43:3, 14; 47:4; 54:5
Hope of Israel – Acts 28:20; I Timothy 1:1
Horn of Salvation – Luke 1:69
Husband and Bridegroom – Isaiah 54:5; Matthew 9:15; John 3:29; II Corinthians 11:2
I AM – John 8:58 (cp. Verses 24 and 28, also Exodus 3:14)
Image of God – II Corinthians 4:4; Colossians 1:15
Image (Express) of the Person of God – Hebrews 1:3
Jesus – Matthew 1:21, 25; Luke 1:31; 2:21;Acts 9:5; 13:23; 22:8; 26:15; I Thessalonians 1:10
Judge (Righteous) – II Timothy 4:8
Judge of quick and dead – Acts 10:42; II Timothy 4:1
Just One – Acts 3:14; 7:52
King of Glory – Psalm 24:7-10
King of Israel – Isaiah 44:6; Ezekiel 37:21,24; John 1:49
King of kings – I Timothy 6:15; Revelation 17:14; 19:16
King of saints (marg. ‘nations’ or ‘ages&#8217 - Revelation 15:3
King of the Jews – Matthew 2:2; 27:37; Mark 15:26; Luke 23:38; John 18:39; 19:19
King of Zion – Zechariah 9:9; Matthew 21:5; John 12;15
Lamb – I Peter 1:19; Revelation 5:6,12; 7:10; 13:8; 14:1,4; 17:14; 21:22,
Lamb of God – John 1:29,36
Lawgiver - Joshua 4:12 (cp. Hebrews 3:5,6)
Leader and Commander – Isaiah 55:4
Life – John 11:25; 14:6; Colossians 3:4; I John 1:2
Life (Eternal) – I John 1:2; 5:20
Light – John 1:8,9; 12:35,36
Light (True) – John 1:9
Light of men – John 1:4
Light of the Gentiles (or nations) – Isaiah 42:6; 49:6; 60:3; Luke 2:32
Light of the world – John 8:12; 9:5; 12:46
Lion of Juda – Revelation 5:5
Lord – Luke 2:11; John 13:14; 20:28; Acts 2:36; Romans 1:3; I Corinthians 8:6; 12:3; Philippians 2:11
Lord from heaven – I Corinthians 15:47
Lord God Almighty – Revelation 15:3
Lord Jesus – Acts 7:59; 8:16; 19:17;21:13; I Corinthians 11:23; I Thessalonians 2:15; Hebrews 13:20; Revelation 22:20
Lord Jesus Christ – Acts 15:11; 16:31; Romans 5:1; I Corinthians 8:6; Ephesians 1:3; Philippians 3:20; I Thessalonians 3:13; I Peter 1:3
Lord of all – Acts 10:36; Romans 10:12
Lord of Glory – I Corinthians 2:8
Lord of Hosts – Isaiah 47:4; 54:5
Lord of lords – I Timothy 6:15; Revelation 17:14; 19:16
Lord of the dead and living – Romans 14:9
Lord of the Sabbath – Matthew 12:8; Mark 2:28; Luke 6:5
Lord our Righteousness – Jeremiah 23:6
Man – I Timothy 2:5
Man(Second) – I Corinthians 15:47
Man approved (or ordained) of God – Acts 2:22; 17:31
Man of Sorrows – Isaiah 53:3
Man of the right hand of God – Psalm 80:17
Master – Matthew 8:19; 23:8, 10; John 13:13, 14
Mediator – I Timothy 2:5; Hebrews 8:6; 9:15; 12:24
Messenger of the Covenant – Malachi 3:1
Messiah – Daniel 9:25, 26; John 1:41; 4:25
Michael – Daniel 10:21; 12:1
Mighty God – Isaiah 9:6
Minister of the circumcision – Romans 15:8
Minister of the Sanctuary – Hebrews 8:2
Morning Star – Revelation 22:16
Most Holy – Daniel 9:24
Nazarene (or Jesus of Nazareth) – Matthew 2:23; Mark 1:24; Acts 2:22; 10:38
Only begotten of the Father – John 1:14; 3:16,18; I John 4:9
Passover – I Corinthians 5:7
Peace – Ephesians 2:14
Place (hiding) from the wind – Isaiah 32:2
Plant of Renown – Ezekiel 34:29
Power and Wisdom of God – I Corinthians 1:24
Precious Corner Stone – Isaiah 28:16; I Peter 2:7
Prince – Daniel 9:25
Prince and Saviour – Acts 5:31
Prince of Israel – Ezekiel 34:24; 37:25 (cp. Micah 5:1)
Prince of Life – Acts 3:15
Prince of Peace – Isaiah 9:6
Prince of the kings of the earth – Revelation 1:5
Prophet – Deuteronomy 18:15 and Acts 3:22 and 7:37; Luke 24:19; John 7:40
Propitiation for our sins – I John 2:2; 4:10
Redeemer – Job 19:25; Isaiah 47:4; 54:5; 59:20; 60:16
Resurrection and Life - John 11:25
Rock (the Spiritual) – I Corinthians 10:4
Rock of offence – I Peter 2:8
Root and Offspring of David – Revelation 5:5; 22:16
Root of Jesse – Isaiah 11;10; Romans 15:12
Ruler – Micah 5:2 (See Matthew 2:6)
Salvation of God – Luke 2:30
Saviour – Isaiah 43:3; Luke 2:11; John 4:42; Acts 5:31; 13:23; Ephesians 5:23; Philippians 3:20; II Timothy 1:10; Titus 1:4; 2:13; 3:6; II Peter 1:1,11; 2:20; 3:18; I John 4:14
Seed of Abraham – Galatians 3:16
Seed of the woman – Genesis 3:15
Servant (Righteousness) – Isaiah 53:11
Servant of the Lord – Isaiah 42:1; 52:13; Ezekiel 34:24; Zechariah 3:8; Matthew 12:18
Shepherd – Isaiah 40:11; Zechariah 13:7
Shepherd (Chief) – I Peter 5:4
Shepherd (Good) – John 10:11, 14
Shepherd (Great) of the Sheep – Hebrews 13:20
Shepherd and Bishop of souls – I Peter 2:25
Shiloh – Genesis 49:10 (cp. Numbers 24:17)
Son of David – Matthew 1:1; 9:27; 15:22; 20:30; 21:9; Mark 10:47; Luke 18:38; 20:41
Son of God – Psalm 2:7 and Hebrews 1:5;Matthew 8:29; 16:16; 26:63; Mark 3:11; Luke 1:35; John 1:49; 6:69; 10:36; 11:27; Acts 8:37; Romans 1:4; I Corinthians 1:9; Galatians 4:4; I John 5:5
Son of Man – Psalm 80:17; Daniel 7:13; Matthew 8:20; 9:6; 16:13; Mark 8:38; 9:12,31; Luke 19:10; John 5:27; Acts 7:56
Son of the Blessed – Mark 14:61
Son of the Highest – Luke 1:32
Star of Jacob – Numbers 24:17
Stone (Living),Chosen and Precious – I Peter 2:4-6 and Isaiah 28:16
Stone (Tried) – Isaiah 28:16
Stone of Stumbling – Isaiah 8:14; Romans 9:33; I Peter 2:8
Stone which the builders rejected – Psalm 118:22; Matthew 21:42; I Peter 2:7
Sun of Righteousness – Malachi 4:2
Surety – Hebrews 7:22
Teacher from God – John 3:2
True God – I John 5:20
True Vine – John 15:1
Truth – John 14:6
Way – John 14:6
Wisdom of God – Proverbs 8:12, 22-26; I Corinthians 1:24
Witness (Faithful and True) – Revelation 1:5; 3:14; 19:11
Witness to the people – Isaiah 55:4
Wonderful – Isaiah 9:6
Word – John 1:1, 14
Word of God – Revelation 19:13 Word of Life – I John 1:1


now, the title "Merciful Lamb:" (which before this post I've never seen anyone say) fits, He is God most Merciful, and he is the Lamb of God. It's an extrapolation.

Calling Mary "Co-redeemer" is not found anywhere in scripture, whatsoever. In fact, scripture points to one and one redeemer alone.

As was said, title added to Mary for the sake of adding title to Mary.

lionroar0 said:

Here's are other titles of Jesus not found inthe Bible.

Best friend.

King of Kings

Merciful judge

Brother.

Peace

Click to expand...

ah, and Lamb of God isn't on your list... interesting. Merciful King.... Lamb of God.... Merciful Lamb.... go figure.

(your list is a bit short.)

Uphill Battle said:

as in righteousness? yes.

I do believe anything we do as it stands as righteousness is filthy rags. Even what Mary did. it made her no more righteous than anyone else.

This is the way I look at it.

An Artist has a child. Now, this artist is the greatest ever, his work is perfect, peerless, matchless. His child, after his Father, tries to follow along and be an artist too. The childs artwork is amateurish, badly done, inconsistant, etc....

The artist is pleased that the child gives their best to be like him, and to paint like him, but in no way does he view the artwork as his own.

Click to expand...

You are really in error and being ascriptual about this. God requires good works from us and fully expects believers to do his will.

If we don't he will say depart from Him for He never knew us.

Our works seen as dirty rags to God was before our redemption. It is not the case now. How can it be? We are his children. Would you think of your kids obedience to what you ask of them, is just a dirty rag?

Oh please, that's crazy wrong.

.

Benedicta00 said:

Okay Sunlover... you are hung up on the word and how it is defined by Webster.. I got that.

Click to expand...

Absolutely not, I'm hung up on the truth.
Im hung up on Jesus, and He doesn't share
His glory with a co-anything.

Now let's throw out co redeemer and you pick the title you think would be better.

Click to expand...

I guess whatever the angel called her would
be what God called her and would be a fine title.

Benedicta00 said:

You are really in error and being ascriptual about this. God requires good works from us and fully expects believers to do his will.

If we don't he will say depart from Him for He never knew us.

Our works seen as dirty rags to God was before our redemption. It is not the case now. How can it be? We are his children. Would you think of your kids obedience to what you ask of them, is just a dirty rag?

Oh please, that's crazy wrong.

.

Click to expand...

ah, so I suppose everything you do now that is a "good work" is attributed to you as righteousness?

talking about ascriptural? and error? please.

now, the title "Merciful Lamb:" (which before this post I've never seen anyone say) fits, He is God most Merciful, and he is the Lamb of God. It's an extrapolation.

Calling Mary "Co-redeemer" is not found anywhere in scripture, whatsoever. In fact, scripture points to one and one redeemer alone.

As was said, title added to Mary for the sake of adding title to Mary.

Click to expand...

and co-redeeme fits Mary, because she cooperated with God when she was asked to give birth to God and became a co-redeemer

No one else in history has co-operated with God the way that Mary has by bringing God into time in the Incarnation.

Peace

Uphill Battle said:

ah, and Lamb of God isn't on your list... interesting. Merciful King.... Lamb of God.... Merciful Lamb.... go figure.

(your list is a bit short.)

Click to expand...

LOL... oh man...

"Lamb of God, who taketh away the sins of the world, have mercy on us... Lamb of God who taketh away the sins of the world, have mercy on us... Lamb of God who taketh away the sins of the world, graciously hear us."

This is said at the end of every litany I ever took part in.

And at Mass after the consercation before we come up to receive our Lord, we say, as we beat our breast the way the centruion did at the foot of the cross when he realized Jesus was the truly the son of God...

"Lamb of God you take away the sins of the world, have mercy on us, Lamb of God you take away the sins of the world, have mercy on us, Lamb of God you take away the sins of the world, grant us peace."

.

lionroar0 said:

and co-redeeme fits Mary, because she cooperated with God when she was asked to give birth to God and became a co-redeemer

No one else in history has co-operated with God the way that Mary has by bringing God into time in the Incarnation.

Peace

Click to expand...

ah... so here is the other side of the argument, if fits HER and HER alone, because of what she did, etcetera etcetera....

which is it guys, is EVERYONE a co-redeemer, or just Mary?

Either way, it's very wrong.

ah, so I suppose everything you do now that is a "good work" is attributed to you as righteousness?

talking about ascriptural? and error? please.

Click to expand...

NO we attributred to God and to His rightnousness and because we are His children we are partakers and sharers of His kingdom and rightnousness.

Humanity is not totally depraved.

Peace

Benedicta00 said:

LOL... oh man...

"Lamb of God, who taketh away the sins of the world, have mercy on us... Lamb of God who taketh away the sins of the world, have mercy on us... Lamb of God who taketh away the sins of the world, graciously hear us."

This is said at the end of every litany I ever took part in.

And at Mass after the consercation before we come up to receive our Lord, we say, as we beat our breast the way the centruion did at the foot of the cross when he realized Jesus was the truly the son of God...

"Lamb of God you take away the sins of the world, have mercy on us, Lamb of God you take away the sins of the world, have mercy on us, Lamb of God you take away the sins of the world, grant us peace."

.

Click to expand...

I was addressing the list given, Bene.