25 years in Faith Movement:The TRUTH

SnuP · Aug 30, 2002

Originally posted by LouisBooth
"The idea is that you can place yourself back under the law by trying to do what only God can do."
Nope, you can't..this statement of yours also doesn't mess with this statement

"I believe that a person, once they are saved can never be in bondage to the law again. "

If you are never under the law, you can submit until the cows come home and that doesn't change anything.

Accually they do mess, bondage meaning that you have no power to come out from under, chained, the lack of free choice in this area.  You can place your self under the law (ie submit to the law once again) but you can also come out from under the law easily by repenting (changing your mind, submitting to Christ), a power that you previoully never had.

SnuP · Aug 30, 2002

Originally posted by LouisBooth
"There are real problems with Christians doing this otherwise Galatians wouldn't have been written. "

Agreed, but in the perspective you and I have, this dismissed the views he offered earlier about romans chapter 7.

"To walk under the law, as if it had power over us negates that freedom and the grace that comes with it. By living under the law we are not walking by faith but by sight, not by the Spirit, but by the world."

Totally agreed. It changes things in terms of our sanctificaiton, not our salvation, and that was what he implied, and why I said that. Context my friends

Louis you must remember that I talk in context to a working out of a redemption for the soul that is a part from the salvation of the spirit.  The spirit having been redemed, now the soul must be redemed that the life of Christ might be a blessing to it.  How can the soul be bessed with peace and joy and all of the fruit of the spirit for that matter is it is trying to fulfill the law?  Trying to fulfill the law leads to failure (sin).  Sin is bondage.  Failure leads to condemnation.  Where there is no law there is no condemnation.  If you walk with the Spirit you will not fulfill the lust of the flesh, you will not sin (there is no law to judge you either).

mjwhite · Aug 30, 2002

Dear SnuP,

quote:
Originally posted by LouisBooth
"The idea is that you can place yourself back under the law by trying to do what only God can do."
Nope, you can't..this statement of yours also doesn't mess with this statement

"I believe that a person, once they are saved can never be in bondage to the law again. "

If you are never under the law, you can submit until the cows come home and that doesn't change anything. " end quote

You replied,
Accually they do mess, bondage meaning that you have no power to come out from under, chained, the lack of free choice in this area. You can place your self under the law (ie submit to the law once again) but you can also come out from under the law easily by repenting (changing your mind, submitting to Christ), a power that you previoully never had.

If you can come out easily AND bondage means you have no power to come out then how is it we can be in bondage? Your own words seem contradictory, please clear up my confusion.

Thanx,
mike

mjwhite · Aug 30, 2002

Dear SnuP,

Louis said:
There are real problems with Christians doing this otherwise Galatians wouldn't have been written. "

Agreed, but in the perspective you and I have, this dismissed the views he offered earlier about romans chapter 7.

"To walk under the law, as if it had power over us negates that freedom and the grace that comes with it. By living under the law we are not walking by faith but by sight, not by the Spirit, but by the world."

Totally agreed. It changes things in terms of our sanctificaiton, not our salvation, and that was what he implied, and why I said that. Context my friends

What here do you disagree with?

LouisBooth · Aug 30, 2002

"You can place your self under the law "

Nope, can't be done. Because according to scripture God owns you now he bought you fair and square, you're his servant. you can't put yourself back under the bondage of law, but you can fall back into old habits, but that is not making yourself a slave to sin again.

"Trying to fulfill the law leads to failure (sin). Sin is bondage. "

ahh..this is your problem. for a christian, not fufilling the law is no longer sin in the terms of it is sin for an nonchristian. Why? Because we are no longer under the law. It now serves as a guide for us, not a condmenation. Read romans and you'll see that.

SnuP · Sep 1, 2002

Originally posted by mjwhite
Dear SnuP,

You replied,
Accually they do mess, bondage meaning that you have no power to come out from under, chained, the lack of free choice in this area. You can place your self under the law (ie submit to the law once again) but you can also come out from under the law easily by repenting (changing your mind, submitting to Christ), a power that you previoully never had.

If you can come out easily AND bondage means you have no power to come out then how is it we can be in bondage? Your own words seem contradictory, please clear up my confusion.

Thanx,
mike

The problem is a mind set.  From the view of a person who is trying to fulfill the law, overcoming sin (living sinless) may appear impossible.  Many christians have a defeated mind set. They feel that where they are at is where they will stay and any growth that they see will take years.  They accept their circumstance and sometimes rationalize it to believing that their problems are from God or that He wants them this way.  All the while they don't relieze that deliverence is their right by salvation.  Most Christians don't even think that a relationship with God can be the same as a relationship with a best friend or a true father.  I even posted a thread intitled 'what is your relationship like?' and to my dismay no one replied.  In my experience, most christians live their lives thinking that God is off on some distant 'planet' called heaven and that He is therefore unreachable.  He often feels that their prayers don't get above the ceiling, and the ones that do get thru to heaven, have to go through a pipe line of some sort that travels a great distance in order to reach God.  These people are under the law.

SnuP · Sep 1, 2002

Under the law.

When refering to christians that is not a statement of position in reference to Christ (or legality), but rather it is a statement of mind set that a person lives out their life from under.

mjwhite · Sep 1, 2002

Dear SnuP,

Thank you for clearing that up for me. Your last post was explanatory.

Without it, we might have gone around the block all over again. To be under law could be understood as a legal or actual state instead of a percieved state. In their mindset, these people percieve that they are under law still when they are not. Yet because of their false perceptions they live like they are under law when as you say, they were redeemed from the law by the salvation they have in Christ.

I think we are in agreement.

Louis, what do you think?

in Jesus alone,
mike

SnuP · Sep 2, 2002

mjwhite,

I do believe that if you live a life of trying to keep aspects of the law, whether you are legally under it or not, then the enemy has grounds to hold you accountable for the reprocutions of failing to keep the whole law.

mjwhite · Sep 2, 2002

Dear SnuP,

You are speaking in a legal sense. The enemy has NO legal standing before the lawful ruler, the Lord God.

Who shall lay any charge to God's elect? It is God who justifies. Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, is risen again, who is at the right hand of God who makes intercession for us.

The enemy has no grounds to hold anyone accountable for anything since he is a rebel and a liar. Those who truly belong to the Lord are not legally under the law no matter how they percieve the world and the kingdom of God. Children are only under a tutor until they are of age and are set free.

We are set free by the death of Christ for as we die with Him we also died to the law, the rules and regualtions nailed to the cross. All those who died with Christ are dead to the law much like a widow is freed from her marriage vows now that her husband is dead. She may choose to live like she is bound, but she is not.

The real problem is teaching that we are not bound to the law and are to walk in that freedom bringing glory to God. There are some that say if we are so free what keeps us from sin? They think we need a yoke to rein in our worldly ways, when all we need to is to walk by the Spirit.

In Him,
mike

SnuP · Sep 2, 2002

Ah, but he does.  Jesus said that all sin leads to death.  Upon this basis and this basis alone does the enemy have legal grounds to come into our lives.  He can bring in death to work in our bodies.

SavedByGrace3 · Sep 2, 2002

"Who shall lay any charge to God's elect? It is God who justifies. Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, is risen again, who is at the right hand of God who makes intercession for us."

Wow! Glory to God!

What a powerful truth from the Lord! I am tingling at the thought of it!

Jesus at the right hand of our Father. Denying objecting after objection leveled by the accuser! Declaring us not guilty at every charge! Thank you Jesus! Where would we be without this glorious and powerful salvation that He has provided for us!

What dark pit would we be consigned to. What eternal torment at the hands of the liar of the ages.

Truely, He is the Lord of Lords and the saviour of our souls!

Didaskalos

 

SnuP · Sep 2, 2002

Ya'll seem to so quickly forget the law of sowing and reeping.

SnuP · Sep 3, 2002

Galatians 6:
7Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap. 8For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting. 9And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.

mjwhite · Sep 3, 2002

Dear SnuP,

Gal 6 was talking about salvation but rewards. "Well doing" is what Paul was urging us in to do AND as you see why we reap life. Otherwise salvation is by works [what we sow] and not by grace [since ONE sin is enough to cast us from God]. ALL of our sin was paid for by Jesus' atoning death on the cross. He was the propiation for ALL of our sins. When we got saved, we were buried with Him in that death and by the Spirit raised to a new life.

Besides, my friend, just because you chose to sin doesn't give the enemy any say over you saved or not. It is God who we offend and who is the judge. God in that sense allows satan to wreak havoc due to our rebelliouness, but satan has no rights, for he is a rebel to all truth justice and goodness. It is from these that all 'rights' come from. Therefore it is from God that all rights come from, satan has no rights.

In Jesus alone,
mike

SnuP · Sep 3, 2002

So... you accept that one part of the scripture applies to christians in the form of rewards but the second part you reject as appling to christians in the form of rewards. :scratch:

LouisBooth · Sep 3, 2002

"When refering to christians that is not a statement of position in reference to Christ (or legality), but rather it is a statement of mind set that a person lives out their life from under."

Not according to scripture

Under the law means under the law and not under Christ.

SnuP · Sep 3, 2002

But as you say we are no longer under the law.  Therefore there only remains a delusion.  But all sin breeds death.  Not death in the spirit, but death in other areas of our lives.  And we come into agreement with the sickness and disease around us.  Then we remove God's reality from our doctrine in order to easy our minds, rather then face our sin.  But God says repent and step into my blessing and my presence, become a part of me and never walk in the darkness again.

LouisBooth · Sep 3, 2002

"But all sin breeds death. Not death in the spirit, but death in other areas of our lives"

Nope, sin itself just breeds death not in "other areas". The sickness and disease around us are God's judgement upon Adam for sinning. It was not directly caused by sin, or it would be sinful to be sick, but its not.

SnuP · Sep 3, 2002

When God said that if you eat of the fruit of the tree you shall surely die, it was not a judgement but a statement of a spiritual law.  The law of reaping and sowing.  I point you again to Galations 6.

25 years in Faith Movement:The TRUTH

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