Just a reminder--all please read

Erinwilcox · Mar 2, 2007

I realize that we all hold convictions concerning biblical matters. I am well aware that our doctrine differs greatly from many other denominations and religious groups that identify themselves as Christian. I also understand that it is perfectly reasonable to discuss these doctrinal differences here in the Baptist forum. However, when having such discussions, we must be careful not to flame other groups or denominations. There are ways to respectfully disagree and discuss disagreements without flaming other groups. Also, there are ways to state controversial disagreements without flaming. Providing historical proof of our denominations view on the matter with your post is one way to do this, provided that the post itself is not inflammatory. What is said in such a post will no doubt be offensive to whatever group you are posting about, however, in my opinion, there is a difference between them being offended by what our denomination has historically believed and them being flamed by the way it is/was presented. I know that there are huge differences between Protestants and Roman Catholics. . .differences that many good people have died for. I will never say that the differences are trivial or that they do not exist. To do so would be wrong of me. However, when discussing these differences, we must still remain respectful and not be inflammatory. While I realize that a great many people on this board feel that they have been silenced on many controversial matters, I do not necessarily think that it is just CF rules that have caused this. Think for a moment. In life, we should be respectful and not rude to people. This is common courtesy. So also on CF, we are not to be rude or unnecessarily offensive to others. Disagree we may, but flame we may not. People will never be won when they feel that they are being attacked. Love is a much better way to influence people. I am NOT here to promote "unity between all people and all denominations and religious groups." However, I am here to promote peace. There is a great difference between peace and unity. Unity means to be united, peace means that there is peace even when there is not unity. There are some groups that I would not unite with--but I do not want the people in those groups to be my enemies either. If I feel that they are wrong in various areas of doctrine, I would rather have them be my friend since friends are more likely to listen to eachother.

Anyway, thanks for listening to my rambling on.

JimfromOhio · Mar 2, 2007

Romans 14:19 (New International Version)
Let us therefore make every effort to do what leads to peace and to mutual edification.

Romans 15:2 (New King James Version)
Let each of us please his neighbor for his good, leading to edification.

Ephesians 4:3 (New International Version)
Make every effort to keep the unity of the Spirit through the bond of peace.

Ephesians 4:3 (New King James Version)
endeavoring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.

Romans 15:5
(NIV) May the God who gives endurance and encouragement give you a spirit of unity among yourselves as you follow Christ Jesus

(NKJV) Now may the God of patience and comfort grant you to be like-minded toward one another, according to Christ Jesus

Philippians 2:1-2
(NIV)That if we have any encouragement from being united with Christ, if any comfort from His love, if any fellowship with the Spirit, if any tenderness and compassion, then make our joy complete by being like-minded, having the same love, being one in spirit and purpose.

(NKJV) Therefore if there is any consolation in Christ, if any comfort of love, if any fellowship of the Spirit, if any affection and mercy, fulfill my joy by being like-minded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind.

The Holy Spirit is within us believers, Christ dwells in our hearts, and "Christ in you, the hope of glory" (Colossians 1:27) is the burning core of the Christian faith. Spiritual knowledge flows from a understanding of Scripture through the Holy Spirit as Authoritative, Divinely inspired, Apostolic, and True - a position held by nearly all Christians. Christian can disagree on MINOR doctrines as long as they agree on the MAJOR doctrines (i.e. Salvation) The Holy Spirit gave me assurance of my faith and doctrines I follow. No Church, No Denomination, No pastors or anyone can do this for me. Holy Spirit is the ONLY person who can do this.

2 Corinthians 12:19
Again, do you think that we excuse ourselves to you? We speak before God in Christ. But we do all things, beloved, for your edification.

2 Corinthians 13:10
Therefore I write these things being absent, lest being present I should use sharpness, according to the authority which the Lord has given me for edification and not for destruction.

1 Timothy 1:3-5
As I urged you when I went into Macedonia—remain in Ephesus that you may charge some that they teach no other doctrine, nor give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which cause disputes rather than godly edification which is in faith. Now the purpose of the commandment is love from a pure heart, from a good conscience, and from sincere faith.

:groupray:

eldermike · Mar 2, 2007

Well written OP, I agree that respect for others is most important.

FreeinChrist · Mar 2, 2007

Excellent OP!

BigChrisfilm · Mar 2, 2007

I could make a Roman Catholic mad by posting nothing but scripture, without even providing any interpretation. Therefor, it is impossible for me to not offend anyone ever. Infact, many are offened by Biblical stances, Jesus said it would happen.

BigChrisfilm · Mar 2, 2007

Respect is not most important.

JimfromOhio · Mar 3, 2007

BigChrisfilm said:
I could make a Roman Catholic mad by posting nothing but scripture, without even providing any interpretation. Therefor, it is impossible for me to not offend anyone ever. Infact, many are offened by Biblical stances, Jesus said it would happen.

Look... I will not agree with Roman Catholic teachings or any other denominational teachings that are NOT biblically sound. Denominations are not the problem, the problem is the sinners including the forgiven (saved) sinners who will continue to make spiritual mistakes. We need to remember that we Christians are spiritually united (God knows who are His) and doctrinally divided.

We need to stay away from an "attitude" of the Pharisees' attitudes are those who magnifies the faults of those who based others on appearance and diminishes their graces, while they promote their doctrines. We are not have a tunnel vision" based on their teachings alone but rather focus on the doctrine of love regardless you agree with their teachings or NOT. Every Christian must decide whether they will us their liberty to decide on their doctrinal beliefs. Grace is about loving other people that we have the freedom to do so but at the same time, respect how they practice their beliefs. In Romans 14:5 "One man considers one day more sacred than another; another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind." 1 Corinthians 10:28-29 "both for the sake of the man who told you and for conscience' sake, the other man's conscience, I mean, not yours. For why should my freedom be judged by another's conscience?" Everyone will have different view based on their "convictions". Nothing holy and genuine will be done in someone's life until their will is surrendered in active obedience to the Holy Spirit. This is between the believer and God. As long as our conscience is clear and our heart is pure before God, don't be concerned with minor doctrine issues.

We are to focus on love that builds through spiritual edification, NOT spiritual destruction.

Romans 14:19 (New International Version)
Let us therefore make every effort to do what leads to peace and to mutual edification.

Romans 15:2 (New King James Version)
Let each of us please his neighbor for his good, leading to edification.

JimfromOhio · Mar 3, 2007

BigChrisfilm said:
Respect is not most important.

Respect is important to God. Colossians 4:5 Be wise in the way you act toward outsiders; make the most of every opportunity. 1 Thessalonians 4:12 so that your daily life may win the respect of outsiders.

1 Peter 2:17 (New King James Version)
Honor all people. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honor the king.

1 Peter 2:17 (New International Version)
Show proper respect to everyone: Love the brotherhood of believers, fear God, honor the king.

1 Peter 3:15-16 (New King James Version)
But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts, and always be ready to give a defense to everyone who asks you a reason for the hope that is in you, with meekness and fear; having a good conscience, that when they defame you as evildoers, those who revile your good conduct in Christ may be ashamed.

1 Peter 3:15-16 (New International Version)
In your hearts set apart Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect, keeping a clear conscience, so that those who speak maliciously against your good behavior in Christ may be ashamed of their slander.

BigChrisfilm · Mar 3, 2007

JimfromOhio said:
Respect is important to God. Colossians 4:5 Be wise in the way you act toward outsiders; make the most of every opportunity. 1 Thessalonians 4:12 so that your daily life may win the respect of outsiders.

1 Peter 2:17 (New King James Version)
Honor all people. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honor the king.

1 Peter 2:17 (New International Version)
Show proper respect to everyone: Love the brotherhood of believers, fear God, honor the king.

1 Peter 3:15-16 (New King James Version)
But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts, and always be ready to give a defense to everyone who asks you a reason for the hope that is in you, with meekness and fear; having a good conscience, that when they defame you as evildoers, those who revile your good conduct in Christ may be ashamed.

1 Peter 3:15-16 (New International Version)
In your hearts set apart Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect, keeping a clear conscience, so that those who speak maliciously against your good behavior in Christ may be ashamed of their slander.

Show me where the Lord said it was most important.

JimfromOhio · Mar 3, 2007

BigChrisfilm said:
Show me where the Lord said it was most important.

I did and you ignored. The Word of God is from the Lord. You cannot selectively pick verses and ignore other verses to support your beliefs. 2 Timothy 3:16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness.

We must not select a few favorite passages to the exclusion of others. Nothing less than a whole Bible can make a whole Christian. AW Tozer

BigChrisfilm · Mar 3, 2007

JimfromOhio said:
I did and you ignored. The Word of God is from the Lord. You cannot selectively pick verses and ignore other verses to support your beliefs. 2 Timothy 3:16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness.

We must not select a few favorite passages to the exclusion of others. Nothing less than a whole Bible can make a whole Christian. AW Tozer

Oh you know that Jesus never said respect was the most important thing. That's not even one of the 10 commandments. I read those verses and it said it IS important, not that it was the most important thing. I'm trying to be nice, don't insult my intelligence. You know that's not what the Bible says.

JimfromOhio · Mar 3, 2007

BigChrisfilm said:
Oh you know that Jesus never said respect was the most important thing. That's not even one of the 10 commandments. I read those verses and it said it IS important, not that it was the most important thing. I'm trying to be nice, don't insult my intelligence. You know that's not what the Bible says.

Insulting your human intelligence or your spiritual intelligence? Spiritually Smart or Fleshy Smart?

Let's talk about the Ten Commandments since you brought it up.

For those who are WITH Christ in our hearts, the Ten Commandments are about LOVE. Christians do not look at the Ten Commandments as laws but Grace of Love. We are to LOVE God first (first 4 commandments) and we are to love one another (last 6 commandments). Often "something" takes priority by some which I believe it is wrong. Love should be in priority. Without Christ, we are nothing. Along with love and under the control of the Holy Spirit, the power of love and Holy Spirit flows through us. The only way the spiritual gifts are going to operate is love. Love is the key. God is love. He gave us two commandments. We are to love God and others.

Jesus didn't say: "Love your doctrines with all your heart, with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor who believes the same doctrines as you do.' All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments."

What did Jesus REALLY say? " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.' This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments."

JimfromOhio · Mar 3, 2007

BigChrisfilm said:
Oh you know that Jesus never said respect was the most important thing.

What is the most important biblically?

I know what is but I wonder if you do. So, I won't post mine until you post yours first and see how much you know about the Bible. :wave:

Sword-In-Hand · Mar 3, 2007

A well written OP. It has made me come to a conclusion. I think I know why Jesus chose to hang around the sinners instead of the religious. Yes, because they were the ones who needed to hear His good news, but I think also because they got on His nerves less than the supposed "righteous". And after reading alot of posts on CF, I think He'd feel the same way now.

Hmm, hang around an atheist or two bickering believers? As they say in Maine, "That's ah no brain'a, Bahb."

Matthan · Mar 3, 2007

I, too, realize the importance of rational, logical, and civil communications, especially in our witness of Christ. But, we have als been directed by the Holy Spirit to reject heretics. After one or two attempts to edify them, we are not to have any Christian communication with them. That is the Lord's decree, not mine.

And always keep in mind that one particular denomination has, throughout its entire sordid history, declared, authorized and promoted the deception, torture and murder of all "heretics". And that denomination has also supplied the world with its own definition of heretic, which is every single person who is not a member in good standing of its "doctrine." The declaration of eradication of all heretics came in the Eleventh Century, and has never even been questioned, much less recinded or modified in any way.

Members of this denomination have been lied to, and deceived, to the point they now adhere to an "other gospel" than that which was preached by Paul and the other apostles. According to what we read clearly in Scripture, they are spiritually lost. It is our Christian duty to attempt to reach some of them, but we are (for the most part) prevented from doing so by the rules of CF.

This post contains the truth. It is historically and scripturally correct. And yet there will be some individuals who will take offense at it. Some may even report it as being too offensive. and I may be banned from CF for posting it. but, it is still the truth. And, I will still witness Christ with every opportunity presented to me.

Matthan

BigNorsk · Mar 3, 2007

An excellent openning statement. Please feel free to ramble more.

I would note that one of the requirements for an elder in the church is that he have a good reputation outside the church.

1Ti 3:7 NET.
(7) And he must be well thought of by those outside the faith, so that he may not fall into disgrace and be caught by the devil's trap.

Marv

FreeinChrist · Mar 3, 2007

Matthan said:
I, too, realize the importance of rational, logical, and civil communications, especially in our witness of Christ. But, we have als been directed by the Holy Spirit to reject heretics. After one or two attempts to edify them, we are not to have any Christian communication with them. That is the Lord's decree, not mine.

And always keep in mind that one particular denomination has, throughout its entire sordid history, declared, authorized and promoted the deception, torture and murder of all "heretics". And that denomination has also supplied the world with its own definition of heretic, which is every single person who is not a member in good standing of its "doctrine." The declaration of eradication of all heretics came in the Eleventh Century, and has never even been questioned, much less recinded or modified in any way.

Members of this denomination have been lied to, and deceived, to the point they now adhere to an "other gospel" than that which was preached by Paul and the other apostles. According to what we read clearly in Scripture, they are spiritually lost. It is our Christian duty to attempt to reach some of them, but we are (for the most part) prevented from doing so by the rules of CF.

This post contains the truth. It is historically and scripturally correct. And yet there will be some individuals who will take offense at it. Some may even report it as being too offensive. and I may be banned from CF for posting it. but, it is still the truth. And, I will still witness Christ with every opportunity presented to me.

Matthan

However, in this forum, they are not allowed to debate and cannot clarify. And we forget what Jesus said about throwing stones.

I prefer to base my beliefs on Bible study and then support those beliefs on the basis of that and not because it is different from a particular church.

BigChrisfilm · Mar 3, 2007

JimfromOhio said:
What is the most important biblically?

I know what is but I wonder if you do. So, I won't post mine until you post yours first and see how much you know about the Bible.

Love your God, and love your neighbor as yourself. These are the greatest commandments. And they are more important than respect.

BigChrisfilm · Mar 3, 2007

JacobHall86 said:
No you arent. You take cheap shots at Catholics because you know they cant defend themselves. You would not go to a forum that is unmoderated to debate catholics and you know it. You are not an ambassador for the Lord when you do that, you are a jerk about this stuff and have no actual backing for it. BTW, Catholics arent offended by the Bible, only by your presentation of it, because its done out of hate.

People forget that part of their religion is that they are the one, true church, and that we can't be saved apart for it. That in and of itself should be offensive to you.

JacobHall86 · Mar 3, 2007

Funny, thats what all Christians believe.

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