Holding on by a string

SavannahSage said:

I'm at my wit's end with churches. My husband & I can't seem to find a good one. We've been to several non-denominational churches that have been very dysfunctional & prosperity-oriented so we decided to try a Presbyterian USA church again. We went once, liked it, but found out the pastor was resigning after being there for several years because he won't bend to more liberal ways. I like to listen to Christian music, but I also like some secular music (Classic 80's, Southern Rock etc.) & like to read the occasional non-Christian book. Why is it that in order to be a Christian, we need to give those things up? Or don't we? Please don't say to pray about it, because all I hear are the words of those fundamental pastors telling us it's wrong booming in my head so I couldn't hear God telling me whether it's right or wrong anyhow. Am I the only one who feels this way?

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It is not a sin to listen to non-Christian music or read noon-Christian books, and anybody who tells you that is full of it. Maybe you should take a break from church for awhile. I am doing that because I just can't seem to find one that fits what I need and I don't like the politics involved in church, they shouldn't be there. Why not just try joining a small Bible study in you area for the time being?

Have you considered trying other denoms in your area? I can understand how difficult it can be to find a church family.

1st, there is nothing wrong with listening to secular music or reading secular books . . . depending on the lyrics and content. I wouldn't listen to very much music that suggested ungodly things are positive, just because those songs can change our perspective on things, just as books can. But as long as you're careful about it, there shouldn't be a problem.

One other thing that's good to remember is that if you ever find a perfect church, it will stop being perfect the moment anyone steps inside . . . because the church is made up of imperfect people. The basic necessity here is to find someplace where God is working and join Him there.

Ihth!
Rachel

Yep, try a different denomination. You do NOT have to give up those things as a Christian! Don't stop meeting with other Christians for churchly fellowship because you feel frustrated. It's all the more reason to keep looking for the right place to be.

ChildofGod1586 said:

It is not a sin to listen to non-Christian music or read noon-Christian books, and anybody who tells you that is full of it.

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Amen!

Here is a son of a very well know Christian writing about his childhood. You may find it relevant.

G

rowing up in an evangelical Christian community in Switzerland (what would have been called a commune in the 1960s), L'Abri Fellowship, I absorbed the idea that it was normal to have an interest in and love of the arts. My late father, Francis Schaeffer, introduced me to the arts, including film. He encouraged me to organize film festivals for the L'Abri community. (This sometimes presented problems for students visiting from evangelical-fundamentalist colleges who had signed pledges promising not to, among a host of other forbidden things, go to movies!) L'Abri Fellowship would hire a local theatre and rent movies to watch and discuss. Satyricon, The Pawnbroker, and Bergman's vari[wash my mouth]ous pictures were some of the many films I remember watching. The reason we watched them was not only to learn from them but also because we enjoyed them. L'Abri also organized art festivals and art weeks-times of poetry readings, music, performances, art exhibits, as well as film screenings.

When I was fourteen years old, my father took me out of school for three weeks and travelled with me to Florence, Italy. I recall walking through the Uffizzi Gallery, standing in awe before the works of Botticelli, walking into the Academia and looking at Michelangelo's David for the first time, and having Renaissance art history from the early works of Giotto and Masaccio up to the late High Renaissance of Raphael knowledgeably explained to me as we tramped through the galler[wash my mouth]ies and churches.

Because of my mother's and father's positive attitude toward the arts and humanities, I took it for granted that enjoyment of art, beauty, and history was naturally part of the Christian life. I thought that to be inter[wash my mouth]ested in Roman history or in a film about the Roman Empire's decline (like Fellini's Satyricon) was natural and good. I did not then appreciate the fact that I was living in an oasis.Franky Schaeffer

John
NZ

Hi SS,

Welcome to the world of Christianity of many faiths and many fables.

Don't get involved in what other people say or think, just get yourself right with our Lord Jesus Christ.

We can open many cans of worms on many subjects of the life that we live in these latter days, the "perilous days".

Read 2 Timothy, and be aware of the "seducing spirits and doctrines of demons".

I guess you have been experiencing them at all those churches you've been to and through.

I've seen the lot, and I sit and wait on our Lord Jesus Christ. I see many things that are not right, working in grey areas, between good and evil, white and black.

Sadly, that's the Christian World today. We are in those "perilous days", no different to those days of Paul.

I can understand the concerns of some who infer that you shouldn't read non-Christian books. Well that is up to you, and what you heart says. After all, I wouldn't read many Christian books either, because many are full of the "doctrine of demons", and are full of seduction of sensitive feelings and mysticisms of other religions.

We are in the latter days, and I would be more concerned where you stand with our Lord Jesus Christ, than what other people may think.

Take care and strive to be HIS disciple more so than being a Christian.

Hey Sage...

My wife and I are non-denominational, and we are both somewhat picky about the churches we want to attend.. and in truth, for different reasons... she likes the strong music programs with "old fashion" hymns, I focus on a strong theology program..

And those requirements change as our lifestyle changes (small kids, then older kids, then youth programs, etc).

But we have always managed to find one that comes close to both our needs, and our kid's needs...

It's frustrating, but keep looking. Once you find "the right church", it becomes rewarding as you become more and more involved..

We have so many choices now, I think I'm fussier about churches than I should be.

If the Presbyterian pastor is leaving, then the church will replace him. The regional Presbytery will help them find someone quickly.

1st, there is nothing wrong with listening to secular music or reading secular books . . . depending on the lyrics and content.

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I would rather read a secular book than one that claims to be Christian book but disturbs me... bending Jesus' teachings or making off-base comments.

If you ever run across the book, "Mind of the Maker," pick it up. (Dorothy Sayers writing about creativity.)

One other thing that's good to remember is that if you ever find a perfect church, it will stop being perfect the moment anyone steps inside . . . because the church is made up of imperfect people. The basic necessity here is to find someplace where God is working and join Him there.

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So true!

I think the Bible study search is a great idea, because that's where you'll find other believers who value their faith, and make room for it in their lives.

SavannahSage said:

I'm at my wit's end with churches. My husband & I can't seem to find a good one. We've been to several non-denominational churches that have been very dysfunctional & prosperity-oriented so we decided to try a Presbyterian USA church again. We went once, liked it, but found out the pastor was resigning after being there for several years because he won't bend to more liberal ways. I like to listen to Christian music, but I also like some secular music (Classic 80's, Southern Rock etc.) & like to read the occasional non-Christian book. Why is it that in order to be a Christian, we need to give those things up? Or don't we? Please don't say to pray about it, because all I hear are the words of those fundamental pastors telling us it's wrong booming in my head so I couldn't hear God telling me whether it's right or wrong anyhow. Am I the only one who feels this way?

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Okay.... we'll do the church first. Jesus did say to seek and you shall find. Seeking requires work, so please don't be discouraged. Whenever it is taking a while to get a breakthrough it may be a test of your faith. The fact that you and your husband are getting discourage mean you may be on the verge of failing the test, but praise God! you have made a last ditch effort by coming to us for encouragement!

It took me some years, but I found a super church that happened to be under the Baptist religion. But you wouldn't know it was Baptist, because that isn't the focus, the Bible is. So don't be afraid to explore a few other denominations.

With regard to music and books, I, too, enjoy secular music from my past and I read novels on occasion (especially while on vacation). However, we really must pace ourselves with this form of enjoyment, because it is secular and it can guide us toward sin (no matter how strong we are, too much too often can break down our reserves).

Case and point: When I hear "Let's Get It Own" by Marvin Gay, I'm there enjoying a period of time that I enjoyed with friends; laughing, dancing and sipping wine or whatever. I was also in sin at that time and hearing this song too often at a time makes me very uneasy. I think that's a good thing, because "Let's Get It Own" is not something Jesus would tell us to do, in this particular context, for spiritual edification.

There are people who love the Grateful Dead, and memories of attending their concerts and enjoying this music with friends over drinks and/or weed brings back all kinds of fun and funny memories. However, to recapture those times by listening to the Grateful Dead too often would not serve well with a born again person's soul.

Hopefully this helps.

God bless you,

The Guide

Robinsegg said:

Have you considered trying other denoms in your area? I can understand how difficult it can be to find a church family.

1st, there is nothing wrong with listening to secular music or reading secular books . . . depending on the lyrics and content. I wouldn't listen to very much music that suggested ungodly things are positive, just because those songs can change our perspective on things, just as books can. But as long as you're careful about it, there shouldn't be a problem.

One other thing that's good to remember is that if you ever find a perfect church, it will stop being perfect the moment anyone steps inside . . . because the church is made up of imperfect people. The basic necessity here is to find someplace where God is working and join Him there.

Ihth!
Rachel

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I agree.

God bless you,

The Guide

SavannahSage said:

Why is it that in order to be a Christian, we need to give those things up?Or don't we?

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No we don't. Just give up the stuff that offends Jesus. Like inappropriate contentography and the occult for instance. If you like sci fi, or romance novels there is no reason to give that up(within logical reason).

Please don't say to pray about it, because all I hear are the words of those fundamental pastors telling us it's wrong booming in my head so I couldn't hear God telling me whether it's right or wrong anyhow.

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Sorry, but I'm going to tell you to continue praying and asking for guidance. You WILL hear the Lord. He will make sure of it. Stay committed to reading the Word of God as well.

Trust in Him and He will lead you.

Am I the only one who feels this way?

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Many of us, I would say all of us, encounter road blocks in our faith journey. That's what the devil does. He try's to steer us off the road.

The important thing to remember is that we are never alone when we walk with Jesus. Remember the poem footprints?

God Bless you in your search!

You too!

I like Guide's point about bringing back memories -- music does that so often.

Remember when you visit churches that sermon messages change every week -- what they say the week you visit might be a shift in prior thinking, or a balancing of teachings.

One time an old friend showed up at our church, and I was so excited to see her. That was the week that the pastor decided to ditch the sermon and just allow people to sing. She didn't care for his disorganization, and never came back. It was sort of ironic, because he was someone who loved to take charge of the service and express his thoughts through the sermon.

Just saying... if there's one you almost liked, consider going back a second time.

I have found that the most comfortable fit isn't always the place God wants me, so I try to be open to other things He's trying to do through the experience. Sometimes there are people I need to connect with.