This is a great start. I've debated christadelphians ad nauseum on this topic..
God bless,
FM
God bless,
FM
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Originally posted by Laura
I've never met a Christian who didn't believe in the Trinity. I don't see how you can deny the Trinity...
Originally posted by franklin
I don't see how you cannot deny it. This is from the word of God not some man made creed! Notice 1Jn 4:15 says, "Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God? ;Not, God the Son?
Originally posted by wblastyn
The Jesus of the Bible is God made flesh, so if you worship a Jesus who is not God, then you worship a different Jesus to the Christian Jesus.
Originally posted by Laura
Sorry Ed, I'm not buying it.
Originally posted by Job_38
John Chapter One, Verses one through fourteen.
Originally posted by Lanakila
Way too many scriptures to rationalize there guys. You seem to be picking and chosing the ones you like, and kicking out the ones you don't as mistranslations.
The Life and Times of Jesus the Messiah by Alfred Edersheim
Appendix IX. List of Old Testament Passages Messianically Applied in the Ancient Rabbinic Writings.
Ps. xlv. is throughout regarded as Messianic. To begin with; the Targum renders verse 2 (3 in the Hebrew): 'Thy beauty, O King Messiah, is greater than that of the sons of men.'
Verse 3 (4 in the Hebrew) is applied in the Talmud (Shabb 63 a) to the Messiah, although other interpretations of that verse immediately follow.
The application of verse 6 (7 in the Hebrew), to the Messiah in a MS. copy of the Targum has already been referred to in another part of his book, while the words, 'Thy throne is for ever and ever' are brought into connection with the promise that the sceptre would not depart from Judah in Ber. R. 99, ed. Warsh. p. 178 b, line 9 from the bottom.
On verse 7 the Targum though not in the Venice edition (1568), has: 'Thou O King Messiah because Thou lovest righteousness,' &c. Comp. Levy, Targum. vol. ii. p. 41 a.
The Midrash on the Psalm deals exclusively with the inscription (of which it has several and significant interpretations) with the opening words of the Psalm, and with the words (ver. 16), 'Instead of thy fathers shall be thy children,' but at the same time it clearly indicates that the Psalm applies to the latter, or Messianic, days.
http://www.ccel.org/e/edersheim/lifetimes/htm/VI.ix.htm#VI.ix
Originally posted by Future Man
This is a great start. I've debated christadelphians ad nauseum on this topic..
God bless,
FM
Originally posted by OldShepherd
The KJV Bible has 31,172 verses. You have only quoted one verse. My Bible also has John 1:1-14, Philip 2;6-11, John 8:58, 1 John 5:7, and
Joh 20:28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.
And I note that Jesus did not tell Thomas, not to call Him God, because He was only the son of God. And since I learned to speak Greek the year of Sputnik I and Elvis Germany tour, I can tell you that the form of the Greek is not an exclamation, such as "Oh My God!" but the vocative. Thomas was calling Jesus God, no ifs, ands, or buts.
Originally posted by wblastyn
The Jesus of the Bible is God made flesh, so if you worship a Jesus who is not God, then you worship a different Jesus to the Christian Jesus.
Originally posted by websitejack
Others viewed Jesus as God
1 Timothy 3:16 -Paul Said Jesus was God manifested in the flesh.
"And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifested in the flesh , justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the nations, believed on in the world, received up into glory."
John 20:28 -Thomas called Jesus God.
"And Thomas answered, and said unto him, My Lord and my God ."
Colosians 2:8,9 -Paul said Jesus was the fullness of the Godhead bodily.
"Christ. For in him dwelleth all of the fullness of the Godhead bodily ."
Titus 2:13 -Paul said Jesus was God.
"Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our savior, Jesus Christ ."
Luke 8:39 -After Jesus healed a demon possess man, Jesus said:
"Return to thine house, and show what great things God hath done unto thee. And he went on his way and published throughout the whole city what great things Jesus had done unto him."
Rom. 14:10b -12 -Paul uses the words Jesus and God interchangeably.
"For we shall all stand before the judgment Seat of Christ . For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God. So, then, "every one of us shall give account of himself to God ."
Phil. 2:5b, 6 -Paul said Jesus was God.
"Jesus Christ, who being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God."
Originally posted by websitejack
The people around Jesus understood Jesus was claiming to be God
John 10:33 -The Jews felt Jesus was claiming to be God.
"The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not, but for blasphemy: and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God ."
John 5:18 -The Jews felt Jesus was making himself equal with God.
"Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the Sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God ."
Unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God
, is forever and ever; a scepter of righteousness is the scepter of thy kingdom."
"For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given, and the government shall be upon his shoulder; and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counselor, The Mighty God , the Everlasting Father, the Prince of Peace."
Originally posted by websitejack
Jesus claimed to be God
John 10:30 - Jesus said He was part of God. He said, "I and my Father are one."
Jesus did NOT say he is a part of God. You are putting words in Jesus' mouth.
Exodus 3:14 -God identifies Himself to Moses by calling himself "I AM ." Twice Jesus refers to Himself as the "I AM ." Those around him knew exactly what he was saying and they were greatly offended.
"Jesus said unto them, Verily verily, I say you, before Abraham was, I am . Then they took up stones to cast at him " (John 8:58, 59a)
Jesus did NOT say he is claiming the name of God. That's only what you want Jesus to say.
"Whom seek ye? They answered him, Jesus of Nazareth. Jesus saith unto them I am he. As soon as he said unto them, I am he, they went backward, and fell to the ground." (John 18:4b, 5, 6)
[Note: In the Bible, the word "he" is in italic. Whenever a word was not in the original Greek or Hebrew, but was put in for clarity, the King James translators put the word in italic. This was done so there would be no misunderstanding about what was and was not part of the original text]
Jesus said "I am" he - NOT "I am" God. That's only what you want Jesus to mean. This does NOT nullify Jesus' declaration that the FATHER is the ONLY true God (John 17:3).
Revelation 1:8 -18 -Jesus said, he is the Almighty Lord. The following is a vision John had of Jesus. Verses 2, 13, 17,18 identify Jesus as the:
(v 2) " testimony of Jesus Christ "
(v 8) "I am Alpha and Omega , the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty ."
(v 11) "Saying I am alpha and Omega, the first and the last "
(v 13) "And in the midst of the seven lamp stands, one like the Son of man "
(v 17b. 18a) "Fear not; I am the first and the last ; I am he that liveth and was dead "
Isaiah 44:6 -In Rev 1:11, Jesus says He is the first and the last. Isa. 44:6 shows that the one who is "first and the last is actually God. "Thus saith the Lord, the King of Israel, and his redeemer, the Lord of host: I am the first, and I am the last, and beside me there is not God ."
Rev. 1:8 was uttered by the Lord God who is (today), who was (yesterday) who is to come (for ever) the Almighty who sat on the throne (Rev. 4:2) and was worshiped by the four living creatures (Rev. 4:8) and identified as the CREATOR of all things by the 24 elders (Rev. 4:11).
Rev. 1:11 was uttered by the Son of Man (Rev. 1:13). Rev. 21:6 was uttered by the one who sat on the throne (Rev. 21:5) and Rev. 22:13 was uttered by Jesus (Rev. 22:16).
Ed