Does Hell really mean eternal torment after death?

franklin

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What does the Bible really teach about Hell?
Does the Bible teach the idea commonly held concerning hell? Does the hell of the Bible denote a place of burning torment, a condition of suffering without end, which begins at death? What is the hell of the Bible? The only way to arrive at the correct answer is to trace the words translated ‘hell’ from the beginning to the end of the Bible, and by their connections ascertain exactly what the divine Word teaches on this important subject.

Some more questions to ponder on the subject of Hell:

What is the meaning of the word "hell" in the Old Testament and the New Testament?

Where will the wicked be punished?

Where is Hell located?

How can men and woman live in fire?

Does "forever" always mean never ending?

Aren't those who do not hear or accept the Gospel doomed by God?

Is it right for us to judge men and woman whether they are fit for heaven or hell?

Is there conclusive or explicit proof in scripture that says the wicked have a consciousness after death?
 

franklin

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Originally posted by s0uljah
Wait, wait, wait...so now you are rewriting the teachings about Hell? Tell us what you think Hell really is...

No, no, no, I'm not re-writhing anything souljah!  So, wait, wait, wait, let's see from the Greek and Hebrew how the word Hell was translated! This should answer the first question in my thread:  

What is the meaning of the word "hell" in the Old Testament and the New Testament?

In the Old Testament, it is translated from one word, Sheol. In the New Testament, "hell" is translated from three words, tartaroo, Hades, and Gehenna. It does not teach a place of conscious souls. The Greek Septuagint, which our Lord used when he read or quoted from the Old Testament, gives Hades as the exact equivalent of the Hebrew Sheol, and when the Savior, or his apostles, used the word, they meant the same as is meant in the Old Testament. Thus, the New Testament usage agrees exactly with the Old Testament. Literally, Hades means "death" or the "grave"; and figuratively, it means "destruction".   
 
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stillsmallvoice

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Hi all!

Well, one of my rabbis way back in the USA once said that while we certainly believe in reward & punishment in the world-to-come, the punishment part is not of the Dante-esque variety. My rabbi said that in the world-to-come, our "eyes are opened" and we are made to see & appreciate how our pettiness, our jealousies, our grudges, our meanspiritedness, etc. embittered the lives of others and made them miserable. This, he said, is a far more awful punishment than we can even imagine.

Be well!

ssv :wave:
 
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drmmjr

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The Hebrew word for grave is ‘sheol’. The Greek word for grave is ‘hades’. Old Testament writers, like Moses, Job, David, Solomon, and Isaiah, recorded the fact that dead men are buried in ‘sheol’. New Testament writers, like Matthew, Luke, Paul, and John, taught that the dead are buried in ‘hades’.

Looking at Acts 2:27-31 and Psalm 16:10, you can see that ‘sheol’ and ‘hades’ have the same meaning – the grave. Acts 2:27 is a direct quote of Psalm 16:10. In Psalms the word ‘hell’ is translated from the Hebrew word ‘sheol’, and in Acts the word ‘hell’ is translated from the Greek wore ‘hades’. This helps to prove that the two words mean the same thing.

Hell is an English word derived from the Anglo-Saxon word “helan”, which means “to cover” or “to hide out of sight”.
 
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franklin

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Where will the wicked be punished?

Proverbs 11:31, "Behold, the righteous shall be recompensed in the earth: much more the wicked and the sinner."
The Scripture shows that both the righteous and the wicked are to be recompensed in the same place.


Isaiah 24:21, "And it shall come to pass in that day, that the LORD shall punish the host of the high ones that are on high, and the kings of the earth upon the earth."
Here is a plain statement that punishment is to be administered "upon the earth" at some time.
 
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LightBearer

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Originally posted by s0uljah
So, who here believes that Hell is not eternal punishment, but instead, is destruction? [/QUOTE

According to scripture Hell or properly Hades is not destruction but Gehenna is.

Here’s a little more detailed info.

This is the common transliteration into English of the corresponding Greek word hai'des. It perhaps means “the unseen place.” In all, the word “Hades” occurs ten times in the earliest manuscripts of the Christian Greek Scriptures. Mt 11:23; 16:18; Lu 10:15; 16:23; Ac 2:27, 31; Re 1:18; 6:8; 20:13, 14.

The King James Version translates hai'des as “hell” in these texts, but the Revised Standard Version renders it “Hades,” with the exception of Matthew 16:18, where “powers of death” is used, though the footnote reads “gates of Hades.” “Hades” rather than “hell” is used in many modern translations.

The Greek Septuagint translation of the Hebrew Scriptures (from Genesis to Malachi) uses the word “Hades” 73 times, employing it 60 times to translate the Hebrew word she´ohl', commonly rendered “Sheol.” Luke, the divinely inspired writer of Acts, definitely showed Hades to be the Greek equivalent of Sheol when he translated Peter’s quotation from Psalm 16:10. (Ac 2:27) Inversely, nine modern Hebrew translations of the Christian Greek Scriptures use the word “Sheol” to translate Hades at Revelation 20:13, 14; and the Syriac translation uses the related word Shiul.

In all but two cases in which the word Hades is used in the Christian Greek Scriptures it is related to death, either in the verse itself or in the immediate context; the two other instances are discussed in the following paragraph. Hades does not refer to a single grave (Gr., ta'phos), or to a single tomb (Gr., mne'ma), or to a single memorial tomb (Gr., mne·mei'on), but to the common grave of mankind, where the dead and buried ones are unseen. It thus signifies the same as the corresponding word “Sheol,” and an examination of its use in all its ten occurrences bears out this fact.

In its first occurrence, at Matthew 11:23, Jesus Christ, in chiding Capernaum for its disbelief, uses Hades to represent the depth of debasement to which Capernaum would come down, in contrast with the height of heaven to which she assumed to exalt herself. A corresponding text is found at Luke 10:15. Note the similar way in which Sheol is used at Job 11:7, 8.

Concerning the Christian congregation, Jesus said, at Matthew 16:18, that “the gates of Hades [“powers of death,” RS] will not overpower it.” Similarly, King Hezekiah, when on the verge of death, said: “In the midst of my days I will go into the gates of Sheol.” (Isa 38:10) It, therefore, becomes apparent that Jesus’ promise of victory over Hades means that its “gates” will open to release the dead by means of a resurrection, even as was the case with Christ Jesus himself.

Since Hades refers to the common grave of mankind, a place rather than a condition, Jesus entered within “the gates of Hades” when buried by Joseph of Arimathea. On Pentecost of 33 C.E., Peter said of Christ: “Neither was he forsaken in Hades nor did his flesh see corruption. This Jesus God resurrected, of which fact we are all witnesses.” (Ac 2:25-27, 29-32; Ps 16:10) Whereas “the gates of Hades” (Mt 16:18) were still holding David within their domain in Peter’s day (Ac 2:29), they had swung open for Christ Jesus when his Father resurrected him out of Hades. Thereafter, through the power of the resurrection given him (Joh 5:21-30), Jesus is the Holder of “the keys of death and of Hades.”—Re 1:17, 18.

Illustrative Use. At Revelation 6:8 Hades is figuratively pictured as closely following after the rider of the pale horse, personalized Death, to receive the victims of the death-dealing agencies of war, famine, plagues, and wild beasts.

The sea (which at times serves as a watery grave for some) is mentioned in addition to Hades (the common earthen grave), for the purpose of stressing the inclusiveness of all such dead ones when Revelation 20:13, 14 says that the sea, death, and Hades are to give up or be emptied of the dead in them. Thereafter, death and Hades (but not the sea) are cast into “the lake of fire,” “the second death.” They thereby figuratively ‘die out’ of existence, and this signifies the end of Hades (Sheol), the common grave of mankind, as well as of death inherited through Adam.

The remaining text in which Hades is used is found at Luke 16:22-26 in the account of “the rich man” and “Lazarus.” The language throughout the account is plainly parabolic and cannot be construed literally in view of all the preceding texts. Note, however, that “the rich man” of the parable is spoken of as being “buried” in Hades, giving further evidence that Hades means the common grave of mankind.
 
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franklin

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Where is Hell located?

Since "hell" means "the grave," scripture should describe hell as it would the grave. Hell is described as being in the earth, and in the foundation of the mountains - the foundations being under the earth (Deuteronomy 32:22). Hell is deep - underground (Job 11:8). The direction of hell is down (Psalms 55:15, Ezekiel 32:21,27). Hell is low (Psalms 86:13). Hell is beneath us (Proverbs 15:24, Isaiah 14:9). Hell is a pit (Isaiah 14:15, Ezekiel 31:16). We must dig into hell (Amos 9:2). Hell (the grave) follows death (Revelation 6:8).

Lightbearer, thanks for your post.... Gehenna is the only one of those words translated as "hell" in the Bible, that has any idea of fire or torment resident in it. Look at Matthew 5:22,29-30; 10:28; 18:9; 23:15,33 and Mark 9:43,45,47. It is apparent from these texts that the whole physical body is cast into Hell, and not just the soul. Gehenna is also used in Luke 12:5 and James 3:6. As I mentioned in post #4, referring to "Hades" the scripture doen't teach it as a place of conscious souls. Note this quote from, J.W. Hanson's, Bible Threatenings Explained: "Gehenna was a well-known valley, near Jerusalem, in which the Jews in their idolatrous days had sacrificed their children to the idol Moloch, in consequence of which it was condemned to receive the offal and refuse and sewage of the city, and into which the bodies of malefactors were cast and where to destroy the odor and pestilential influences, continual fires were kept burning. Here fire, smoke, worms bred by the corruption, and other repulsive features, rendered the place a horrible one, in the eyes of the Jews. It was a locality with which they were as well acquainted. But in process of time Gehenna came to be an emblem of the consequences of sin, and to be employed figuratively by the Jews, to denote those consequences. But always in this world. The Jews never used it to mean torment after death, until long after Christ. The word had not the meaning of post-mortem torment when our Savior used it."

Every Bible reference using the word "hell" is addressed to this world. It was also employed in the time of Christ as a symbol of moral corruption and wickedness; but more especially as a figure of the terrible judgment of God on the rebellious and sinful nation of the Jews. It was a place fit only for waste. Again, LB, thanks for your replies......
 
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Hojo Hominygrits

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I do. In the context that it's not sinners that go to hell, but people who reject Christ. We're all sinners. Even Christians still suffer from the curse of sin.

If Hell isn't permanent eternal seperation from God, then why did Christ have to be sacraficed for the sin of the world? What was the point?

We're all going to go to heaven eventually anyway if Hell isn't eternal right? Seems to me that under that train of thought, what Christ did on the cross becomes meaningless.
 
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Originally posted by Hojo Hominygrits
I do. In the context that it's not sinners that go to hell, but people who reject Christ. We're all sinners. Even Christians still suffer from the curse of sin.

If Hell isn't permanent eternal seperation from God, then why did Christ have to be sacraficed for the sin of the world? What was the point?

We're all going to go to heaven eventually anyway if Hell isn't eternal right? Seems to me that under that train of thought, what Christ did on the cross becomes meaningless.

Correct, I mis-spoke.  We are all sinners, of course.

 
 
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franklin

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Originally posted by s0uljah
Instead of getting caught up in terms referring to Hell, I ask this, who believes that sinners will be tormented for eternity?

souljah, That is the main purpose of this thread that I started and that is, Does Hell really mean eternal torment after death?  The purpose of this thread is not so much weather someone believes that the wicked will be tormented in a place called hell, it's main purpose is to explore the scripture to see if that is what the Bible truely teaches.  I have posted a number of questions in my thread for you to follow and so far it sounds like you are beginning to take this thread in the direction you want it to go.  If that is what you are trying to accomplish, may I suggest that you start your own thread in another forum.  Please try to stay on the topic just like some of the others have demonstrated such as Lightbearer, drmmjr and stillsmallvoice. Your cooporation will be greatly appreciated.

thank you

FR
 
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Originally posted by franklin


souljah, That is the main purpose of this thread that I started and that is, Does Hell really mean eternal torment after death?  The purpose of this thread is not so much weather someone believes that the wicked will be tormented in a place called hell, it's main purpose is to explore the scripture to see if that is what the Bible truely teaches.  I have posted a number of questions in my thread for you to follow and so far it sounds like you are beginning to take this thread in the direction you want it to go.  If that is what you are trying to accomplish, may I suggest that you start your own thread in another forum.  Please try to stay on the topic just like some of the others have demonstrated such as Lightbearer, drmmjr and stillsmallvoice. Your cooporation will be greatly appreciated.

thank you

FR

Ok, sorry.
 
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drmmjr

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Originally posted by NurseMK
You better believe there's a hell.  I'm not going to roast in it.

Praise Jesus!!!!

 
If you'll read some of the posts prior, you'll see what the Bible says hell is. Besides, if hell is someplace that those who don't accept Jesus are put into for eternity, then why is hell and death cast into the lake of fire (Rev. ) and destroyed.
 
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2PE 2:4 For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell, putting them into gloomy dungeons to be held for judgment. It seems hell is a place of conscience torment. But hell isn't the end. rev.20: 14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. Fire is a sigh of judgement. The lake of fire is the final judgement, which is eternal seperation from God. Conscience seperation.
 
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franklin

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Originally posted by drmmjr
If you'll read some of the posts prior, you'll see what the Bible says hell is. Besides, if hell is someplace that those who don't accept Jesus are put into for eternity, then why is hell and death cast into the lake of fire (Rev. ) and destroyed.

Hi dr, Hades is also used in Matthew 11:23; 16:18, Luke 10:23, and Revelation 1:18; 6:8. In Revelation 20:13-14, if one thinks of "hell" as death represented by the grave, it makes sense for hell to be cast into the lake of fire. After all, if "hell" itself is really a lake of fire, how can it be thrown into itself? This does not make any sense. Notice in 1 Corinthians 15:26 that death will be destroyed. What is represented by death? The grave! As in my previous posts, the Bible does not teach that hell (the grave) is a place of conscious souls.  The usual "hellfire" messages from the pulpits makes for good sounding preaching, however, it's far from biblical!  Scareing people into making a decision for salvation is not the methods Christ used as is so clear in scripture.

Thanks for your input and comments....

FR

 

 
 
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Wildfire

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Read the book of Enoch; there is a great in-depth description of heaven
(levels one through ten):

*And those two men led me up on to the Northern side, and showed me there a very terrible place, and there were all manner of tortures in that place: cruel darkness and unilluminated gloom, and there is no light there, but murky fire constantly flaming aloft, and there is a fiery river coming forth, and that whole place is everywhere fire, and everywhere there is frost and ice, thirst and shivering, while the bonds are very cruel, and the angels fearful and merciless, bearing angry weapons, merciless torture, and I said:

Woe, woe, how very terrible is this place.

And those men said to me: This place O Enoch, is prepared for those who dishonour God, who on earth practice sin against nature, which is child-corruption after the sodomitic fashon, magic-making, enchantments and devilish witchcrafts, and who boast of their wicked deeds, stealing, lies, caluminies, envy, rancour, fornication, murder, and who, accursed, steal the souls of men, who seeing the poor take away their goods and themselves wax rich, injuring them for other men's goods; who being able to satisfy the empty, amde the hungering to die; being able to clothe, stripped the naked; and who knew not their creator, and bowed to the souless and lifeless gods, who cannot see or hear, vain gods, who also built hewn images and bow down to unclean handiwork, for all these is prepared this place among these, for eternal inheritance.

The book of secrets of Enoch Chapter 10

Wildfire
 
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