One gay Christian...

Moriah_Conquering_Wind

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These are great! However, here on good ol' CF you are not allowed to use an avatar that represents any gay symbols. Someone might see your rainbow and become highly offended.

Phooey. Tell them the meaning of the rainbow -- it is God's sign which specifically means I will not destroy (Genesis 9:11-17) -- something the "them" are in desperate need of grasping if you ask me. ;)
 
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Moriah_Conquering_Wind

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Joseph would sidestep tht issue well...

joseph-coat.jpg


Also, he was beaten by his family, rejected and sold out.

Remind you of anyone?
Joseph was gay!! It all fits!! THAT's why he had such diva dreams. THAT's why he loved to wear brightly-colored frocks. THAT's why he wasn't interested in Potiphar's wife!! :D :D

It all makes sense now!!!
 
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Moriah_Conquering_Wind

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Kiwimac is correct. Ezekiel 16:49-50 spells out the reasons for Sodom's destruction:
[bible]Ezekiel 16:49-50[/bible]
Nowhere is homosexual activity listed here. However, even if you want to "stretch" verse 50 and claim that "abomination" refers to this, you still cannot deny the fact that in the list of everything God found objectionable, pride, overindulgence in food/wealth, indolence, and failure to care for the poor and needy ranked top among His reasons, with "committing abomination" pulling in at the tail end almost as an afterthought.
 
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kiwimac

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Jude is the ONLY NT writer to make the statement & I would suggest that unless you are also going to agree with his use of such books as the Assumption of Moses and the Enoch books that you might want to reconsider your use of his statement.

More to the point the phrase "strange flesh" in Jude
in the original Greek reads: "sarkos heteras." Ironically, our English word "heterosexual" is derived from "heteras." "Strange flesh" has been variously translated in other versions as "perverted sensuality," "unnatural lust," "unnatural sex," "lust of men for other men," "pursued unnatural desire," "sexual sin, even perversion," and (in the NIV) "perversion." BUT Jude never tells us what he is referring to here, was it gang rape or attempted sex with Angels (which would be inappropriate behavior with animals.)

However take a look at what the OT and Jesus have to say about Sodom's sin.

Ezekiel 16:49 This is what your sister Sodom has done wrong. She and her daughters were proud that they had plenty of food and had peace and security. They didn't help the poor and the needy. Ezek 16:49 (GW)

Luke 10:10-12 “But whenever you go into a city and people don't welcome you, leave. Announce in its streets, ‘We are wiping your city's dust from our feet in protest against you! But realize that the kingdom of God is near you!' I can guarantee that judgment day will be easier for Sodom than for that city.

Then Jesus denounced the cities where he had worked most of his miracles because they had not changed the way they thought and acted. 21 “How horrible it will be for you, Chorazin! How horrible it will be for you, Bethsaida! If the miracles worked in you had been worked in Tyre and Sidon, they would have changed the way they thought and acted long ago in sackcloth and ashes. 22 I can guarantee that judgment day will be better for Tyre and Sidon than for you. 23 And you, Capernaum, will you be lifted to heaven? No, you will go down to hell! If the miracles that had been worked in you had been worked in Sodom, it would still be there today. 24 I can guarantee that judgment day will be better for Sodom than for you.”​
Matt 11:20-24 (GW)

11 “When you go into a city or village, look for people who will listen to you there. Stay with them until you leave {that place}. 12 When you go into a house, greet the family. 13 If it is a family that listens to you, allow your greeting to stand. But if it is not receptive, take back your greeting. 14 If anyone doesn't welcome you or listen to what you say, leave that house or city, and shake its dust off your feet. 15 I can guarantee this truth: Judgment day will be better for Sodom and Gomorrah than for that city. Matt 10:11-15 (GW)

You might also find the following articles by Jewish Rabbis of Interest:

From: http://tinyurl.com/2bmppj

The Wickedness of the Sodomites
The angels left Abraham’s tent, and two of them turned in the direction of Sodom to carry out G-d’s decision to destroy that city.
The Sodomites were notorious for their wickedness. They had no consideration for the poor, nor for the passing stranger to whom they offered no hospitality; nor would they even sell him any food or water. Once they had found out that Plitith, Lot’s daughter, had secretly given food to a stranger who was near starvation, and they burned her in public. Another time, when they discovered that a young girl had fed a starving beggar, they smeared honey all over her and placed her upon the city wall, so that she died from the stings of the bees attracted by the honey.
These and many other similar hideous acts of cruelty by the Sodomites and their neighbors of Gomorrah, had aroused G-d&#8217;s anger, and He decided to destroy them completely.<snip>

From: http://tinyurl.com/8en58

<snip>
The Mishnah (Avot 5:12) classifies one whose attitude to wealth is &#8220;What is mine is mine and what is yours is yours&#8221; as being a mediocre person. Such a person is prepared to respect the property of another and operate within the framework of the law.

However, he is not prepared to assist others, nor does he recognize a social obligation in view of the wealth in his possession. &#8220;Some say,&#8221; continues the Mishnah, &#8220;this is the mark of the people of Sodom.&#8221; The people of Sodom have been the archetype of an evil community deserving of destruction ever since biblical times, primarily because of their selfish economic behavior.

The Malbim (Rabbi Meir Lebush, Hungary, nineteenth century) comments that their sin lay in their refusal to share their wealth with the surrounding nations. It should be noted that while the Aggadah [classical rabbinic legends] is replete with stories of their inhospitality to strangers, the men of Sodom welcomed Lot, Abraham&#8217;s nephew. Lot was a wealthy man, and it was only poor strangers who were not welcome in Sodom.

The Sodomite view of absolute private property rejects any obligations to assist others, which is contrary to the Jewish concept of limited private-property rights.

Hearing that in the World to Come evildoers would be punished by not being able to bend their arms, a chasid queried Divine Justice, saying that this was no punishment. &#8220;Well, they will not be able to eat,&#8221; answered his master. But the chasid countered, &#8220;Let them sit opposite each other and then they can feed one another with their outstretched arms.&#8221; That, however they refused to do. That is their evil way even as it was in Sodom.

However, what made it necessary to destroy Sodom was not the individual selfishness of its citizens, but the fact that this had become an integral part of its communal culture. While a society can exist with cruel and selfish individuals, the moral decay that sets in when cruelty and callousness become hallmarks of that society marks it for Divine retribution.

Rashi, commenting on a verse in Amos--&#8220;They who sell the poor for a pair of shoes&#8221;--highlights this communal aspect. He notes the difference between a sandal, which is open, and a shoe, which is closed and possesses in Hebrew the same grammatical root as the word for &#8220;lock.&#8221; This is what the rich did. They closed in the poor farmer&#8217;s field and then forced him to sell&#8212;a perfectly legal but immoral use of societal legislation.

So Judea had to be destroyed. In Sodom they gave charity generously. However, all the money was secretly marked so that the storekeepers refused to accept it. When the poor died of hunger, each Sodomite reclaimed his money&#8212;legal but abhorrent. Cruelty and callousness are expressed not only in relationships with the poor and weak but also in those between buyer and seller, employer and employee, and even competitors in all spheres of business activity.<snip>

kiwimac
 
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Moriah_Conquering_Wind

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Quote:
<snip>
The Mishnah (Avot 5:12) classifies one whose attitude to wealth is &#8220;What is mine is mine and what is yours is yours&#8221; as being a mediocre person. Such a person is prepared to respect the property of another and operate within the framework of the law.

However, he is not prepared to assist others, nor does he recognize a social obligation in view of the wealth in his possession. &#8220;Some say,&#8221; continues the Mishnah, &#8220;this is the mark of the people of Sodom.&#8221; The people of Sodom have been the archetype of an evil community deserving of destruction ever since biblical times, primarily because of their selfish economic behavior.

The Malbim (Rabbi Meir Lebush, Hungary, nineteenth century) comments that their sin lay in their refusal to share their wealth with the surrounding nations. It should be noted that while the Aggadah [classical rabbinic legends] is replete with stories of their inhospitality to strangers, the men of Sodom welcomed Lot, Abraham&#8217;s nephew. Lot was a wealthy man, and it was only poor strangers who were not welcome in Sodom.

The Sodomite view of absolute private property rejects any obligations to assist others, which is contrary to the Jewish concept of limited private-property rights.

Hearing that in the World to Come evildoers would be punished by not being able to bend their arms, a chasid queried Divine Justice, saying that this was no punishment. &#8220;Well, they will not be able to eat,&#8221; answered his master. But the chasid countered, &#8220;Let them sit opposite each other and then they can feed one another with their outstretched arms.&#8221; That, however they refused to do. That is their evil way even as it was in Sodom.

However, what made it necessary to destroy Sodom was not the individual selfishness of its citizens, but the fact that this had become an integral part of its communal culture. While a society can exist with cruel and selfish individuals, the moral decay that sets in when cruelty and callousness become hallmarks of that society marks it for Divine retribution.

Rashi, commenting on a verse in Amos--&#8220;They who sell the poor for a pair of shoes&#8221;--highlights this communal aspect. He notes the difference between a sandal, which is open, and a shoe, which is closed and possesses in Hebrew the same grammatical root as the word for &#8220;lock.&#8221; This is what the rich did. They closed in the poor farmer&#8217;s field and then forced him to sell&#8212;a perfectly legal but immoral use of societal legislation.

So Judea had to be destroyed. In Sodom they gave charity generously. However, all the money was secretly marked so that the storekeepers refused to accept it. When the poor died of hunger, each Sodomite reclaimed his money&#8212;legal but abhorrent. Cruelty and callousness are expressed not only in relationships with the poor and weak but also in those between buyer and seller, employer and employee, and even competitors in all spheres of business activity.<snip>
EXCELLENT ARTICLE. Extremely thought provoking. Cruelty and callousedness .... yes ..... like crashing into someone else's safe haven and totally ruining the sense of welcome others had extended. Like deliberately hunting down those who left a toxic waste dump for cleaner pastures so you can dump the toxic waste they obviously DIDN'T want right there in their laps. Yup, that certainly ought to mark someone for Divine retribution in my book, all right.
 
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FLANDIDLYANDERS

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What does the OT refer to as an ABOMINATION?

( &#1514;&#1465;&#1468;&#1493;&#1506;&#1461;&#1489;&#1464;&#1492; t&#333;&#699;&#275;&#7687;&#257; or to'ba (noun) or ta'ab (verb).)

Lev 11:

10And all that have not fins and scales in the seas, and in the rivers, of all that move in the waters, and of any living thing which is in the waters, they shall be an abomination unto you:

11They shall be even an abomination unto you; ye shall not eat of their flesh, but ye shall have their carcases in abomination.
12Whatsoever hath no fins nor scales in the waters, that shall be an abomination unto you.
13And these are they which ye shall have in abomination among the fowls; they shall not be eaten, they are an abomination: the eagle, and the ossifrage, and the ospray,
14And the vulture, and the kite after his kind;
15Every raven after his kind;
16And the owl, and the night hawk, and the cuckow, and the hawk after his kind,
17And the little owl, and the cormorant, and the great owl,
18And the swan, and the pelican, and the gier eagle,
19And the stork, the heron after her kind, and the lapwing, and the bat. 20All fowls that creep, going upon all four, shall be an abomination unto you.


42Whatsoever goeth upon the belly, and whatsoever goeth upon all four, or whatsoever hath more feet among all creeping things that creep upon the earth, them ye shall not eat; for they are an abomination. 43Ye shall not make yourselves abominable with any creeping thing that creepeth, neither shall ye make yourselves unclean with them, that ye should be defiled thereby.

22Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.


My personal favourite is calling an Eagle an Abomination, eh America?
 
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Tenebrae

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What can I say........... At times it would be nice to have Gods ability in regards to sin. I'm sure that I read in the bible that when we repent He removes it as far as the east is from the west

God might not remeber my past any more, sometimes I would like to have the same ability:sigh::D
 
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Sign Of The Fish Burger

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This thread has been re-opened.

However, I wanted to remind you all of the congregational rules, specifically 1.4

1.4 Congregational Areas

You may post in any of the Congregational Forums if you agree with the contents of the Nicene Creed and the Trinitarian nature of God, but you may not argue or debate with members of particular denominations and groups in their congregational areas unless you are a member of that particular denomination or group.

emphasis mine.
 
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chaz345

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This thread has been re-opened.

However, I wanted to remind you all of the congregational rules, specifically 1.4

1.4 Congregational Areas

You may post in any of the Congregational Forums if you agree with the contents of the Nicene Creed and the Trinitarian nature of God, but you may not argue or debate with members of particular denominations and groups in their congregational areas unless you are a member of that particular denomination or group.

emphasis mine.
I'm not trying to be a smart aleck in asking this, and I am a little new so please forgive my ignorance but does this mean that any liberal/conservative debate/disagreement is not appropriate here in this section?
 
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