Spiritual Pride

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intricatic

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One thing that certainly happens when pride grips us, is, we want to be right. This desire can be so strong it skews our perspective till all we are doing in a conversation is finding more fuel to prove our points rather then seeking truth. The reason. We already have the truth, or so we assume. That assumption is what creates all the conflict amongst us as individual believers and various denominations. We even go so far as to judge a person based upon their denominational affiliations.
I don't like denominational affiliations. I find they're usually pretty meaningless these days.

I remember hearing a preacher say. "During the rapture no Charismatic will be taken into heaven - pause - they'll be turned into Baptists on the way." I've never been affiliated with the charismatic church but, do believe in the gifts. Then it was insulting. Now it's just funny.
I think it's both disturbing and funny at the same time.

All the sins we commit are no doubt in some fashion linked to pride the root which caused all the mess this world is in today.
I agree, but it's not always bad to think we do have the truth to some degree. When Paul tells us to stand boldly before the throne, that implies we do have reason to do so that we hold strongly to. That we should be hostile to those we disagree with is another matter entirely. I also think it's wise to take time to consider other positions, but not in such a way that we compromise our initial positions in order to reconcile the two - we need to maintain integrity in our faith, but we need not do so in knee-jerk exclusion of all positions that even slightly differ from our own.
 
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intricatic

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Jesus called Pharisees hypocrites, the children of hell, white washed sepulchers, blind leading the blind, amongst other things. Why did he speak thus to people who by all accounts seemed to be very attentive to God's word?
They were attentive to scripture, not God's word. As Spurgeon points out;

The Scribes and pharisees were great readers of the law. They studied the sacred books continually, poring over each word and letter. They made notes of very little importance, but still very curious notes—as to which was the middle verse of the entire old Testament, which verse was halfway to the middle, and how many times such a word occurred, and even how many times a letter occurred, and the size of the letter, and its peculiar position. They have left us a mass of wonderful notes upon the mere words of Holy Scripture. They might have done the same thing upon another book for that matter, and the information would have been about as important as the facts which they have so industriously collected concerning the letter of the old Testament.
They were, however, intense readers of the law. They picked a quarrel with the Saviour upon a matter touching this law, for they carried it at their fingers' ends, and were ready to use it as a bird of prey does its talons to tear and rend. Our Lord's disciples had plucked some ears of corn, and rubbed them between their hands. According to Pharisaic interpretation, to rub an ear of corn is a kind of threshing, and, as it is very wrong to thresh on the Sabbath day, therefore it must be very wrong to rub out an ear or two of wheat when you are hungry on the Sabbath morning. That was their argument, and they came to the Saviour with it, and with their version of the Sabbath law.
 
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JWNEWMAN

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They were attentive to scripture, not God's word. As Spurgeon points out;
Ah, that's what I was looking for somebody with historical perspective to shed light on the matter. I'm kinda lazy about reading biblical history.

I agree we must stand firm and be ready to give an account. But when I have to give an account it's name, rank and serial number, only. Religious people guarding against 'heresy' will go over you with a fine tooth comb to see if your OK in their eyes. Man, I believe Yeshua, died in my place, his blood a covering for my sins, he rose from the grave, ascended into heaven, is the head of the church (body of believers in the earth) will return one day to claim his rightful authority over the earth. That's all I like to tell people, any more than that and, you chance alienating the person cause your 'not one of them'. It's weird!

I remember, this guy needed help repairing the roof on his house. He was from the church I was attending at the time. We had this long haired guy who attended church for a spell. He wore a muscle shirt, neck chain, arm band, and a snake bracelet (cool looking braclet); he was a recent convert to the faith. I was pulling some old shingles off near where the home owner and the pastor were working. The guy who owned the house gave the long haired fellow a side-long glance and hissed, "I wonder what motive brought him here?" I just shook my head. If the guy would have been dressed "properly" and "properly" groomed, my old fart, of a friend (home owner), wouldn't have said a thing but, "thanks for coming." As it was he was full of suspicion.
 
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4Christ2

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quote=savedandhappy1;31871718]
As Christians we all grow at different rates, just like babies do. We all start out with the milk of the word working our way up to the meat of the word. Again, just like we started out in life as babies that needed milk and someone teaching us, till we become big enough to eat meat and do for ourselves, the same is with Christians.​


Just because a person has been a Christian along time doesn't mean that they are ready for meat, all that depends on what and how much they have been taught from the word. So there are people that understand the word better than me, and there are those who don't understand the word as much as me. All because we grow at different rates.​


1 Peter 2:1-5​

1Wherefore laying aside all malice, and all guile, and hypocrisies, and envies, and all evil speakings,​

2As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby:​

3If so be ye have tasted that the Lord is gracious.​

4To whom coming, as unto a living stone, disallowed indeed of men, but chosen of God, and precious,​

5Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.​


Heb 5:11-14​

11Of whom we have many things to say, and hard to be uttered, seeing ye are dull of hearing.​


12For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.

13For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe. 14But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.​


1 Cor 3:1-5​

1And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.


2I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.

3For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?​

4For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal? 5Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man?​


Here are some thoughts about pride I found.​



The first and worst cause of error that prevails in our day is spiritual pride. This is the main door by which the devil comes into the hearts of those who are zealous for the advancement of Christ. It is the chief inlet of smoke from the bottomless pit to darken the mind and mislead the judgment, and the main handle by which Satan takes hold of Christians to hinder a work of God. Until this disease is cured, medicines are applied in vain to heal all other diseases.​

Pride is much more difficult to discern than any other corruption because, by nature, pride is a person having too high a thought of himself. Is it any surprise, then, that a person who has too high a thought of himself is unaware of it? He thinks the opinion he has of himself has just grounds and therefore is not too high. As a result, there is no other matter in which the heart is more deceitful and unsearchable. The very nature of it is to work self-confidence and drive away any suspicion of evil respecting itself.​

Pride takes many forms and shapes and encompasses the heart like the layers of an onion- when you pull off one layer, there is another underneath. Therefore, we need to have the greatest watch imaginable over our hearts with respect to this matter and to cry most earnestly to the great searcher of hearts for His help. He who trusts his own heart is a fool.​

Since spiritual pride in its own nature is secretive, it cannot be well discerned by immediate intuition of the thing itself. It is best identified by its fruits and effects, some of which I will mention together with the contrary fruits of Christian humility.​

The spiritually proud person is full of light already and feels that he does not need instruction, so he is ready to despise the offer of it. On the other hand, the humble person is like a little child who easily receives instruction. He is cautious in his estimate of himself, sensitive as to how liable he is to go astray. If it is suggested to him that he does go astray, he is most ready to inquire into the matter.​

Proud people tend to speak of other's sins, the miserable delusion of hypocrites, the deadness of some saints with bitterness, or the opposition to holiness of many believers. Pure Christian humility, however, is silent about the sins of others, or speaks of them with grief and pity. The spiritually proud person finds fault with other saints for their lack of progress in grace, while the humble Christian sees so much evil in his own heart, and is so concerned about it, that he is not apt to be very busy with other hearts. He complains most of himself and his own spiritual coldness and readily hopes that most everybody has more love and thankfulness to God than he.​

Spiritually proud people often speak of almost everything they see in others in the harshest, most severe language. Commonly, their criticism is directed against not only wicked men but also toward true children of God and those who are their superiors. The humble, however, even when they have extraordinary discoveries of God's glory, are overwhelmed with their own vileness and sinfulness. Their exhortations to fellow Christians are given in a loving and humble manner, and they treat others with as much humility and gentleness as Christ, who is infinitely above them, treats them.​

Spiritual pride often disposes people to act different in external appearance, to assume a different way of speaking, countenance, or behavior. However, the humble Christian, though he will be firm in his duty; going the way of heaven alone even if all the world forsake him; yet he does not delight in being different for difference's sake. He does not try to set himself up to be viewed and observed as one distinguished, but on the contrary, is disposed to become all things to all men, to yield to others, to conform to them, and to please them in all but sin.​

Proud people take great notice of opposition and injuries, and are prone to speak often about them with an air of bitterness or contempt. Christian humility, on the other hand, disposes a person to be more like his blessed Lord, who when reviled did not open His mouth but committed Himself in silence to Him who judges righteously. For the humble Christian, the more clamorous and furious the world is against him, the more silent and still he will be. Another pattern of spiritually proud people is to behave in ways that make them the focus of others. It is natural for a person under the influence of pride to take all the respect that is paid to him. If others show a disposition to submit to him and yield in deference to him, he is open to it and freely receives it. In fact, they come to expect such treatment and to form an ill opinion of those who do not give them what they feel they deserve.​



[/quote]
EXCELLENT POST! :amen: I learned much from it.
 
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intricatic

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Ah, that's what I was looking for somebody with historical perspective to shed light on the matter. I'm kinda lazy about reading biblical history.
Meh, it's not everyone's thing.

I agree we must stand firm and be ready to give an account. But when I have to give an account it's name, rank and serial number, only. Religious people guarding against 'heresy' will go over you with a fine tooth comb to see if your OK in their eyes. Man, I believe Yeshua, died in my place, his blood a covering for my sins, he rose from the grave, ascended into heaven, is the head of the church (body of believers in the earth) will return one day to claim his rightful authority over the earth. That's all I like to tell people, any more than that and, you chance alienating the person cause your 'not one of them'. It's weird!

I remember, this guy needed help repairing the roof on his house. He was from the church I was attending at the time. We had this long haired guy who attended church for a spell. He wore a muscle shirt, neck chain, arm band, and a snake bracelet (cool looking braclet); he was a recent convert to the faith. I was pulling some old shingles off near where the home owner and the pastor were working. The guy who owned the house gave the long haired fellow a side-long glance and hissed, "I wonder what motive brought him here?" I just shook my head. If the guy would have been dressed "properly" and "properly" groomed, my old fart, of a friend (home owner), wouldn't have said a thing but, "thanks for coming." As it was he was full of suspicion.
You'll have that, but there is good reason to be on guard against heretical teachings, especially in today's world where we have Mormonism, JW theology, Scientology, Oneness theology, and a whole host of other deceptive teachings that rear their heads on a daily basis. This doesn't mean being on guard against individuals, though, but being on guard against ideas and willing to defend the core essentials of the faith. The thing about Biblical theology - the substance of what we believe - is that a minor detail can have significant impact on the entire body of a person's faith. When you really get down to it, this is how Pharisaic teachings get started; looking at the text as simply text with no true content that can be manipulated to meet preconceived notions.

As far as how people treat one another within the Body of Christ, this is more a question of ethics and morality. I've met more than enough people who are very firmly grounded in faith who don't act the way so many people on these boards seem to think all Christians act, and extremely few examples that mentality. I have met many examples of people who seem rebellious or dissenting for no real reason, though. It's not people we need to guard against, and it's not people in our immediate lives that should shape the way we look at the Bible or approach God.
 
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elsbeth

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I was re-reading C.S. Lewis' Mere Christianity the other day. Lewis says pride (in general- but it also applies specifically to spiritual pride) is the deadliest of sins because it is the only one that comes straight from hell. Most sins are a distortion of something good (wanting money or power, liking to eat, liking sex, things that aren't necessarily bad if NOT taken to excess or in the wrong circumstances). But pride has nothing good in it at all.
 
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MrsJoy

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It's pretty obvious none of us has a corner on the truth. We have our belief's based on scriptures and we often disagree. The most important issue in my book is (as you know) "do unto others as you would have them do unto you" knowing this "God is Love" and "Love covers a multitude of sins"
very true.
but comparing someone following scripture to the pharisees who followed man-made rules and left their people outside the kingdom (as Jesus condemned them) Is huge error.
There is a big difference between standing on what one believes from scripture and standing on man-made rules.
 
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JWNEWMAN

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intricatic wrote:
Meh, it's not everyone's thing.

You'll have that, but there is good reason to be on guard against heretical teachings, especially in today's world where we have Mormonism, JW theology, Scientology, Oneness theology, and a whole host of other deceptive teachings that rear their heads on a daily basis. This doesn't mean being on guard against individuals, though, but being on guard against ideas and willing to defend the core essentials of the faith. The thing about Biblical theology - the substance of what we believe - is that a minor detail can have significant impact on the entire body of a person's faith. When you really get down to it, this is how Pharisaic teachings get started; looking at the text as simply text with no true content that can be manipulated to meet preconceived notions.

I suppose you are right. It seems such a tedious task to me. Not my calling. I feel impressed to impress Love thy neighbor and Christ died for and represent all mankind. To warn against not people who are pharisees but, becoming one by, allowing religious pride to creep into our lives. We should look at everyone as our equal and minister to each other from that perspective. It makes a difference just in passing when you accept everyone as your equal.

As far as how people treat one another within the Body of Christ, this is more a question of ethics and morality. I've met more than enough people who are very firmly grounded in faith who don't act the way so many people on these boards seem to think all Christians act, and extremely few examples that mentality. I have met many examples of people who seem rebellious or dissenting for no real reason, though. It's not people we need to guard against, and it's not people in our immediate lives that should shape the way we look at the Bible or approach God.

Yeah, there are beautiful Christians out in the world I agree. So glad of it also... on more then one occasion a brother or sister has come to my aid in time of need. And, having friends to console you, or for you to console, lean on, be leaned on, etc., makes a world of difference.
 
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MrsJoy

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I agree, but it's not always bad to think we do have the truth to some degree. When Paul tells us to stand boldly before the throne, that implies we do have reason to do so that we hold strongly to. That we should be hostile to those we disagree with is another matter entirely. I also think it's wise to take time to consider other positions, but not in such a way that we compromise our initial positions in order to reconcile the two - we need to maintain integrity in our faith, but we need not do so in knee-jerk exclusion of all positions that even slightly differ from our own.
I thought this beared repeating.
 
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MrsJoy

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I agree we must stand firm and be ready to give an account. But when I have to give an account it's name, rank and serial number, only.

1 Peter 3:15
But in your hearts set apart Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect,
Philippians 1:14
Because of my chains, most of the brothers in the Lord have been encouraged to speak the word of God more courageously and fearlessly.

1 Thessalonians 2:4
On the contrary, we speak as men approved by God to be entrusted with the gospel. We are not trying to please men but God, who tests our hearts.


Prov 24:11 Rescue those being led away to death;
hold back those staggering toward slaughter. 12 If you say, "But we knew nothing about this,"
does not he who weighs the heart perceive it?
Does not he who guards your life know it?
Will he not repay each person according to what he has done?

Religious people guarding against 'heresy' will go over you with a fine tooth comb to see if your OK in their eyes.
simply because some stand up for what they believe and point out error does not mean that they are doing what you have said.
there are those who act in that way, but not all who stand up for what they believe are doing this.
we are not called to accept every teaching, but to test it against Scripture.
Nor are we told to be anything but bold about our faith.
1 Thessalonians 5:21
Test everything. Hold on to the good.
Romans 12:2
Do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God's will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will.

Romans 16:17
I urge you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and put obstacles in your way that are contrary to the teaching you have learned. Keep away from them.
Ephesians 4:14
Then we will no longer be infants, tossed back and forth by the waves, and blown here and there by every wind of teaching and by the cunning and craftiness of men in their deceitful scheming.
2 Tim 2:14Keep reminding them of these things. Warn them before God against quarreling about words; it is of no value, and only ruins those who listen. 15Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a workman who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly handles the word of truth.
16Avoid godless chatter, because those who indulge in it will become more and more ungodly. 17Their teaching will spread like gangrene. Among them are Hymenaeus and Philetus, 18who have wandered away from the truth. They say that the resurrection has already taken place, and they destroy the faith of some.
1 Corinthians 16:13
Be on your guard; stand firm in the faith; be men of courage; be strong.
2 Corinthians 3:12
Therefore, since we have such a hope, we are very bold.
2 Thessalonians 2:15
So then, brothers, stand firm and hold to the teachings we passed on to you, whether by word of mouth or by letter.
1 Timothy 1:19
holding on to faith and a good conscience. Some have rejected these and so have shipwrecked their faith.
1 Timothy 3:9
They must keep hold of the deep truths of the faith with a clear conscience.

Man, I believe Yeshua, died in my place, his blood a covering for my sins, he rose from the grave, ascended into heaven, is the head of the church (body of believers in the earth) will return one day to claim his rightful authority over the earth. That's all I like to tell people, any more than that and, you chance alienating the person cause your 'not one of them'. It's weird!
some will be "alienated" by less than that, some need to hear more.
it is up to the Holy Spirit to help us to know how much we are to share.

Matthew 10:19But when they arrest you, do not worry about what to say or how to say it. At that time you will be given what to say, 20for it will not be you speaking, but the Spirit of your Father speaking through you.


I remember, this guy needed help repairing the roof on his house. He was from the church I was attending at the time. We had this long haired guy who attended church for a spell. He wore a muscle shirt, neck chain, arm band, and a snake bracelet (cool looking braclet); he was a recent convert to the faith. I was pulling some old shingles off near where the home owner and the pastor were working. The guy who owned the house gave the long haired fellow a side-long glance and hissed, "I wonder what motive brought him here?" I just shook my head. If the guy would have been dressed "properly" and "properly" groomed, my old fart, of a friend (home owner), wouldn't have said a thing but, "thanks for coming." As it was he was full of suspicion.
that person was living be legalism...
with that i will agree
 
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MrsJoy

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We should look at everyone as our equal and minister to each other from that perspective. It makes a difference just in passing when you accept everyone as your equal.

.
equal in the Lord, yes.
Believers should be seen as equal, but different.
it must be born in mind that the lost are not the same as the saved (not to be looked down upon, but they are not the same, they are going to heaven with us, at least not yet).
also, all believers are in different stages of their growth in Christ.
in that way as well we are a bit different. not to be looked down upon, but to be born in mind.
 
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MrsJoy

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A real problem is that we have this great tendancy to label people, then, suddenly they're no longer people who christ died for, foremost in out thinking they are 'this' or 'that' and we are then predisposed to always look at them this way.
if these are man made ideas, then yes.
if they are biblical ideas , i.e. the saved and the unsaved are not equivalent, then no.
 
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JWNEWMAN

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I will, as always, turn to this article. Jesus Christ represents all mankind. He died for all of us, and, that is the light by which I view anyone, professed christian or not, that is the reality that, Jesus suffered and died for all. This is a scriptural stance, not only that it is revelation to those who have an ear.... Jesus Christ represents all mankind

True religion is to minister to the widows and orphans in their distress

Love God with all your heart and your neighbor as yourself


Upon these are all scriptures hinge
 
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MrsJoy

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that still does not make those who stand upon God's word automatically Prideful, nor the sinner with the saint.
He died for all, but there is a reason they are compared and contrasted in Scripture.

just out of curiosity, how many different threads with the samish themes are you going to start?
Just wondering.
 
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JWNEWMAN

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I will, as always, turn to this article. Jesus Christ represents all mankind. He died for all of us, and, that is the light by which I view anyone, professed christian or not, that is the reality that, Jesus suffered and died for all. This is a scriptural stance, not only that it is revelation to those who have an ear.... Jesus Christ represents all mankind

True religion is to minister to the widows and orphans in their distress

Love God with all your heart and your neighbor as yourself


Upon these are all scriptures hinge
Above I'm repeating myself. I have a point to make.

Remember: GOD LOVES YOU!!!
 
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