Nathan Poe
Well-Known Member
Well then, if anything involving the divine is a miracle, then can you think of any act in nature in which God is not involved in?
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99.9% DNA & the Bible
- Thread starter JohnR7
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Well then, if anything involving the divine is a miracle, then can you think of any act in nature in which God is not involved in?
EnemyPartyII
Well-Known Member
What an exceptionally interesting theological question.
Technically, I think the answer would be "no", but is there a difference between any phenomena in nature that God is involved in, as a spectator or "allower", and phenomena that He actively brings about? Possibly worthy a whole new thread
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And likewise, I cannot think of anything god *is* involved in. If god exists, he has shown blatant disregard for everything he has "created" since he "created" it.
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This definition of a miracle, in fact, reduces the concept to a factually insignificant, yet nice and fuzzy one. It is completely unfalsifiable, so as a scientist, I have to reject it.
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Nathan Poe
Well-Known Member
Then, by definition, everything in nature is a miracle -- from crabgrass to toejam to monkey snot.
Pretty much renders the term "miracle" worthless, doesn't it? Obviously we need to apply some stricter criteria.
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If you would read your Bible you would see that "crabgrass" is a result of the fall back when Adam and Eve ate the forbidden fruit.
God has a program of redemption though and He is going to restore the earth.
I remember once reading a passage that said we are to give thanks for all things. I could think of a lot of things that I was not thankful for. Yet God is able to work all things together for good. So we can be thankful because all things work together for good.
Ephes. 5:19-20
speaking to one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord, [20] giving thanks always for all things to God the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ,
Romans 8:28
And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose.
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Nathan Poe
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I've read the Bible and see no such thing. How about lending a hand?
And how will the crabgrass, the toejam, and the monkey snot be restored?
I'm sure the monkeys are very thankful.
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Irrelevant? Is everything a miracle or are some things not? Would the witness please answer the question?
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EnemyPartyII
Well-Known Member
I want to know who designed crab grass.Originally Posted by JohnR7
If you would read your Bible you would see that "crabgrass" is a result of the fall back when Adam and Eve ate the forbidden fruit.
Don't just say "the fall", because Adam eating the fruit, is not, in and of itself, sufficient explanation to explain crabgrass, or the carnivorous duigestive tract, or mosquitoes mouth parts, or any of the other stuff "the fall" is supposed to have generated
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corvus_corax
Naclist Hierophant and Prophet
(emphasis mine)
Hurricane Katrina, the 2004 Thailand/Malaysia Tsunami, Ebola, HIV, the 1917 Soviet Union epidemic that killed 2.5 million, the 1931 Flood in the PR of China that killed 3.7 million, etc etc etc
And no, "the fall" is not a explanation for your statement that you cannot think of "anything that God is not involved in AND a part of" (again, emphasis mine), which seems to imply that you are saying that God is directly involved in everything
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God is directly involved in everything. He is involved in a way so as to make sure that all things work out for the best. God does have a plan and a purpose and He will accomplish His objective.
Romans 8:28
And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose.
You opinion seems to be that there are things that are not good and nothing good will come out of it. Our opinion is that God will cause good to come out of everything. Because His goodness is greater than any evil we will ever encounter in this world.
In fact I believe in ultimate perfection and precision. I believe people will get exactly what they want and exactly what they bargan for. So as they say, be careful what you ask for because you might just get it along with things you were not expecting.
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The idea is that there were no weeds in the Garden of Eden.
Genesis 3:18
Both thorns and thistles it shall bring forth for you,
And you shall eat the herb of the field.
Job 31:40
Then let thistles grow instead of wheat,
And weeds instead of barley."
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Crabgrass is a weed. It is classifed as a weed becasue it has a wide or broad leaf on it. Saying that there were no weeds in the Garden of Eden is like saying that there are no erasers in Heaven. Because we know that God does not make mistakes so He does not have any need for an eraser.
So are you trying to argue that there were weeds in the Garden of Eden before Adam and Eve fell from the grace of God? Do you have any evidence for that?
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I simply pointed out that you don't even have biblical support for your contention. The passage you cited mentions thistles and thorns. Crabgrass has neither.
If you want to discuss the real world, plants with broad leaves (i.e. weeds) predate fruit bearing trees.
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Nathan Poe
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I don't see the idea of God inventing the weed here (which would shoot down "TheFallDidIt" anyway) but rather God continuing to Curse Adam by making him work as a farmer -- and work hard.
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RealityCheck
Senior Veteran
A "weed" is anything growing in a spot where you don't want it to grow. Has nothing to do with shapes of the leaves.
(But if you really want to define weeds that way, why are all the dandelions in my yard characterized by long narrow leaves? And why are all the nasturtiums in my garden weeds, when I actually wanted them there?)
(But if you really want to define weeds that way, why are all the dandelions in my yard characterized by long narrow leaves? And why are all the nasturtiums in my garden weeds, when I actually wanted them there?)
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Crab grass is considered to be a weed. It is something that is targeted by weed killer.
What differece does it make anyways? Is there a point to be made in any of this?
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