Originally posted by Andrew
"Again, the question is not are all in Christ yet, but will all eventually freely receive the ransom that was paid for them."
As I said earlier scripture has already answered that clearly with "no" So I dont see why some Christians must start believing otherwise and start some new movt.
Mt 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
Mr 3:29 But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation:
and why wld the Bible warn us abt this if all humankind wld eventually make it to heaven?
I will start posting the eventual salvation of all's response the eternal question, but lets discuss what we have here first.
I mentioned in a past post that those who present the view that eventually all will enter into the grace provided by Christ believe that punishment/Hell is the reality for those outside of the blood of Jesus.
The bible also clearly portrays Hell as NOT A PLACE YOU WANT TO BE! Ever...and as such ALL should be warned.
In fact it is Jesus who speaks of Hell the most in the New Test, so I am not suggesting that there is no Hell. I am questioning the position of Hell being a punishment that has no end and its purpose.
It is interesting to note here that just as there will be differing degrees of reward, there are differing degrees of punishment.
The Scriptures affirm that Christ, at the time of his return will repay each person according to what he has done.
For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.
MAT 16:27
On the opposite side of the equation, there is the matter of degrees of punishment. If anything, the Bible is even more decisive on this issue.
Jesus informed the citizens of certain communities in Galilee that in the day of judgment, it would be more tolerable for certain people of the ancient world (e.g., Tyre, Sidon, and Sodom) than for them (Mt. 11:20-24; cf. 10:15).
Christ told about a certain master who took a trip. While he was away, his servants, who had been charged with various responsibilities, disobeyed him. When the Lord returned, and discovered that some had knowingly been disobedient, while others had disobeyed in ignorance, he punished them according to the level of their culpability (Lk. 12:47-48). There is perhaps no clearer passage than this, that teaches degrees of punishment.
During the course of his trial, Jesus informed Pilate: He who delivered me unto you has the greater sin (Jn. 19:11). Does not justice require a greater punishment for a greater sin?
A man who set aside the law of God under the Mosaic regime, was executed without mercy. The writer of the book of Hebrews declares that the one who tramples on the Son of God and who treats, as a common thing, the blood by which he was sanctified, will deserve a much worse punishment (Heb. 10:26-31).
The principle is this: there is a greater level of responsibility for those who live under the better covenant, and there will be appropriate punishment meted out for those who, through apostasy, reject that which they previously embraced.
The apostle Peter wrote regarding those who had escaped the defilements of the world by virtue of their knowledge of the truth, i.e., obedience to the gospel (2 Pet. 2:20-22; cf. 1 Pet. 4:17). He warned that should they become entangled again in these defilements, and overcome, their last state (their apostate condition) would be worse than the first (the pre-conversion state).
Ominously, he says it would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness, than, after knowing it, to turn back to their former lifestyle. This, most assuredly, teaches a greater level of punishment for apostate Christians than for those who never knew the truth.
As far as purpose, what does the bible say regarding punishment's purpose?
5And you have forgotten the exhortation which speaks to you as to sons: "My son, do not despise the chastening of the Lord, Nor be discouraged when you are rebuked by Him; 6 For whom the Lord loves He chastens, And scourges every son whom He receives." 7 If you endure chastening, God deals with you as with sons; for what son is there whom a father does not chasten? 8 But if you are without chastening, of which all have become partakers, then you are illegitimate and not sons. 9 Furthermore, we have had human fathers who corrected us, and we paid them respect. Shall we not much more readily be in subjection to the Father of spirits and live? 10 For they indeed for a few days chastened us as seemed best to them, but He for our profit, that we may be partakers of His holiness. 11 Now no chastening seems to be joyful for the present, but painful; nevertheless, afterward it yields the peaceable fruit of righteousness to those who have been trained by it.
Heb 12:5-11
Originally posted by Andrew
quote:"So do you believe that there is another chance for at least some to make a decision for Christ after death?"
nope. only the catholics believe that and its called purgatory. also pls show scripture which tells us clearly we have a second chance after death. Bible says man is appointed to die once and after that the judgement.
"The alternatives is that babies who died"
they are in heaven cos their spirits were alive when born. they only die spiritually when comes to age of accountability/understnding of law/right/wrong. that's why Paul said " I was alive once then I died." in Romans. surely he was not refering to physical death.
" and those who never had the Gospel declared to them to know the way are in hell...forever."
God is fair and they are judged by their consciences. and all the more why we need to send out missionaries and the time is short.
Andrew,
It is the "age of accountability" thing that is more of a catholic thing!
Plus you still have the three ways...No one enters the Kingdom except through faith in Christ. We are in agreement there, but if babies and those who haven't heard are in, than it would seem that a far more effective evangelistic plan would be to kill everyone before they reach the so called line of accountability, because on a percentage basis, most will grow up and not receive Christ.
Likewise the better missionary program would be to burn all bibles and suppress the preaching of the gospel because again, the percentage of those who hear the gospel preached on the mission field and respond are far fewer that those who reject it.
Wouldn't that ultimately be more merciful?
jack
Time is definatly viewed from a different vantage point for Him.
