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JWNEWMAN

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The Scenario: In a small town there's a small church with a limited budget. Someone donated to the church a sizable donation to be used specifically for hiring musicians for to play for during services.

In the church there is a good guitar player who is an outspoken christian. He also owns his own business which does very well. He doesn't need the money but would be an excellent choice for the job.

Just down the road from the church lives a man who is not a christian but, is a 'good' man by all accounts. He is in fact a Zen Buddhist. His wife is very ill and he takes care of her night and day. Feeds, bathes, clothes, cooks, physical therapy, meds, runs her back and forth to the doctors, and hospital, etc. In addition he has two small girls he must care for and drop off and pick up when he goes to work because his wife is not able. Because of this schedule he's been reduced from traveling with his jazz band to working one job in the a.m. and another in the p.m. so he has time to care for his wife. All the while praying to God she won't need him till he gets home and, praying hard for a better way to care for his family.

Though not a christian he's applied for the job of playing in the band at the church. The job would pay better then both his part time jobs and the schedule would be allow him to better care for himself and his ailing wife. At the moment he is burning the candle at both ends and is himself running the risk of becoming ill from fatigue.

Who does the church hire? The christian who has no physical needs but would love the job and do a great job. Or, does the church minister to the Zen Buddhist, who really needs the job, and, who is more then up to the task of playing the music in the church?
 

metherion

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I would say it depends on the church.

If I were the pastor, I would hire the Zen Buddhist who is in need.

For one, he is in need and the Church is supposed to show God's love by helping the needy no matter who/what they follow.

For two, just like the sanctity of the Sacraments isn't dependant on the purity of the priest, the worshippfulness of the music shouldn't be dependant on who accompanies it. So it doesn't really matter who plays as long as what needs to get played gets played.

Metherion
 
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JWNEWMAN

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Hire the Christian and donate a monthly stipend to the Zen Buddist out of church funds. Church is for praise and worship. This man will be doing neither.
It's been established, there are no other funds in the church to meet this mans needs... his wife is wholly dependent upon him, completely invalid, and, he's likely going to find himself in the hospital soon from fatigue and exhaustion if he doesn't get relief.
 
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savedandhappy1

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The Scenario: In a small town there's a small church with a limited budget. Someone donated to the church a sizable donation to be used specifically for hiring musicians for to play for during services.

In the church there is a good guitar player who is an outspoken christian. He also owns his own business which does very well. He doesn't need the money but would be an excellent choice for the job.

Just down the road from the church lives a man who is not a christian but, is a 'good' man by all accounts. He is in fact a Zen Buddhist. His wife is very ill and he takes care of her night and day. Feeds, bathes, clothes, cooks, physical therapy, meds, runs her back and forth to the doctors, and hospital, etc. In addition he has two small girls he must care for and drop off and pick up when he goes to work because his wife is not able. Because of this schedule he's been reduced from traveling with his jazz band to working one job in the a.m. and another in the p.m. so he has time to care for his wife. All the while praying to God she won't need him till he gets home and, praying hard for a better way to care for his family.

Though not a christian he's applied for the job of playing in the band at the church. The job would pay better then both his part time jobs and the schedule would be allow him to better care for himself and his ailing wife. At the moment he is burning the candle at both ends and is himself running the risk of becoming ill from fatigue.

Who does the church hire? The christian who has no physical needs but would love the job and do a great job. Or, does the church minister to the Zen Buddhist, who really needs the job, and, who is more then up to the task of playing the music in the church?


Much prayer and searching should be done by this church to seek the will of the Lord.

Frankly, I see that you have said the member of the church does need the money. Also, you have stated how much this man needs to be home with his wife. I think the bigger help and love would be shown by the man who doesn't need the money to give it to the man so he can stay home with his wife. By ignoring the man's faith and only looking at the need of this man and his family, well I believe that this would make the best statement of how Christ loves him and his.

I personnally don't believe a person should be hire to play worship music in a church that they don't agree in faith with. I don't believe that just because he needs money he should be hired. The worship service, to me, is just as important as the preaching service. Maybe even more important. Many scriptures tell us to sing, play instruments, lift up holy hands, etc. to the Lord in worship. Worshiping the Lord should be more then just saying or playing the words of the songs. They should be us meaning it when we sing Just as I am, or Our God is an Awesome God He reigns. I usually close my eyes during the song/worship service so that those around me won't take my thoughts away from the praise, glory and honor that is so due our Lord and Saviour.

If I was a member of this congregation and knew all things of this issue, I might not agree with my thoughts as stated above. Not being there, and not knowing the congregation or the individual, well all my thoughts could be changed as I gaithered with them in prayer and discussion over what would be the way the Lord wanted this handled.

So as an outsider, I see my above thoughts as the way to go. This might not be the case, as I said, if I was a part of the church in question.
 
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JWNEWMAN

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I ask this question to stretch our thinking... remember this also regarding how we should act and represent Christ.

1Jo 3:17 But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels [of compassion] from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?

Many people will disagree with me on this issue and, I see their point but, I honestly don't know how I'd sleep at night knowing this man's plight, if all I did was offer him prayers and a few bucks. That is, if it was in my means to enhance his life so much more by giving him a job.

To worship is to bow before God with your inner being truthfully and, not for show. it can be done anywhere at anytime and in any circumstance it is an attitude of being. There is also the outward act of worship wherein the same thing is done we bow even physically to God expressing our inward state.

I believe part of worship is also meeting this requirement to, love God with all our heart and our neighbor as ourselves. The man in this scenario is our neighbor.
 
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savedandhappy1

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I ask this question to stretch our thinking... remember this also regarding how we should act and represent Christ.

1Jo 3:17 But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels [of compassion] from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?

Many people will disagree with me on this issue and, I see their point but, I honestly don't know how I'd sleep at night knowing this man's plight, if all I did was offer him prayers and a few bucks. That is, if it was in my means to enhance his life so much more by giving him a job.

To worship is to bow before God with your inner being truthfully and, not for show. it can be done anywhere at anytime and in any circumstance it is an attitude of being. There is also the outward act of worship wherein the same thing is done we bow even physically to God expressing our inward state.

I believe part of worship is also meeting this requirement to, love God with all our heart and our neighbor as ourselves. The man in this scenario is our neighbor.

Ok, for one thing I am not talking a few prayers and a few bucks. I am talking giving every week whatever the chuch member received. I believe you stated that the amount would be more than what he was making working 2 jobs, right?

This way the man could be home with his family where he is needed most and still be able to meet the needs money wise of the family.

To me giving this to this man not because he was working for it, but because he needed not only the money but the time at home is more in line as to what God would want.

Now we have the problem of if the man has trouble accepting this gift. So could maybe members of the church help stay with his wife, again no strings attached? As I stated not being there I can't really say which way is best or God's will for this issue. To many facts not known.

 
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SoC

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First off, a church accepting money with strings attached, is a bad idea. If it's not given cheerfully for the church to use as needed, then they should not accept it, IMO.

Secondly, I've never heard of a church paying the musicians. All the churches I've been to have always had volunteer musicians. They are there because they love the Lord and want to use their talents to worship him.

Thirdly, instead of "hiring" the Zen Bhuddist, the church should be showing the man who Christ is by helping out in caring for the man's family. I'm sure there are people in the church who can cook a meal for him or clean his house on a regular basis or watch his kids for a few hours each day or any other service he may need.
 
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WalkingforHim

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I see a band in a worship service and I look for a new congregation.

I'm just the opposite, I need some good music in church to keep it lively.

Thirdly, instead of "hiring" the Zen Bhuddist, the church should be showing the man who Christ is by helping out in caring for the man's family. I'm sure there are people in the church who can cook a meal for him or clean his house on a regular basis or watch his kids for a few hours each day or any other service he may need.

That would be a good way to help.
 
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christsblood

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It's been established, there are no other funds in the church to meet this mans needs... his wife is wholly dependent upon him, completely invalid, and, he's likely going to find himself in the hospital soon from fatigue and exhaustion if he doesn't get relief.

If the pastor, after explaining to the church the man's needs and the opportunity to witness, can't get the church to set up a fund with everyone giving a special donation or time with this family every week or asking the church to pray for more income to help then that church has bigger problems then not having a band.

I don't think anyone should get paid for doing church work. Period. I know several churches that have pastors who have additional incomes and there always seems to be fewer problems. A church shouldn't let those with more money dictate where God's money goes anyway.

 
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JWNEWMAN

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If the pastor, after explaining to the church the man's needs and the opportunity to witness, can't get the church to set up a fund with everyone giving a special donation or time with this family every week or asking the church to pray for more income to help then that church has bigger problems then not having a band.

I don't think anyone should get paid for doing church work. Period. I know several churches that have pastors who have additional incomes and there always seems to be fewer problems. A church shouldn't let those with more money dictate where God's money goes anyway.


The scripture teaches not to "muzzle the ox" meaning people that work in the church should receive compensation for it. There is of course nothing wrong with donating one's time and talents. Both have merit.

Please remember this is a fledgling church the money to help this person just isn't there yet with all the tithes and offerings they are just paying the light bill. The donation has been accepted for the music so that money is available. Let's not talk around the issue. The question is, is it morally or ethically wrong for the church to hire this man because he's not a christian, or, is it morally and ethically wrong for the church not to hire him, bypassing his need and giving it to someone else; Someone who, is a christian but doesn't need the money?
 
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christsblood

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I haven't skirted the issue. I gave a straight answer the first time. Church is for praise and worship. That is done through music as well. A non-Christian should not be given that place since they will not be praising and worshipping. You furthered the argument, I clarified.
 
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Catherineanne

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Who does the church hire? The christian who has no physical needs but would love the job and do a great job. Or, does the church minister to the Zen Buddhist, who really needs the job, and, who is more then up to the task of playing the music in the church?

I am thinking of one particular church, where there would be no doubt that the Buddhist would be offered this job. And where the Christian guitar player would be the first to say so, and would play alongside him for nothing.

The quality of worship offered by Christians in any church is not dependent on the perfect faith of each and every person present, thank God. It is dependent on God's grace meeting our imperfection with love and acceptance. That goes just as much for a Buddhist as it would for a Christian musician. God meets both equally, and loves both equally, and accepts the praise and worship which is offered as a gift, whoever it is from. A Buddhist does not have the power to contaminate the worship or to devalue it in any way, even if he wanted to, which I doubt. God is far more powerful than that.

This man would gain self esteem and independence from such work. He would also see Christ in the people he worships with, and might well end up sharing their faith. Either way, all would gain from learning about their fellow men. There is every reason to hope that such a result would follow. I suspect he would not accept charity, but he would be pleased to accept honourable work.

However, not all churches are the same. :)
 
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JWNEWMAN

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I am thinking of one particular church, where there would be no doubt that the Buddhist would be offered this job. And where the Christian guitar player would be the first to say so, and would play alongside him for nothing.

However, not all churches are the same. :)
My kinda church!!! Best answer (in my opinion) yet. A heart for the hurting world outside... God's heart!
 
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Dannager

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I am thinking of one particular church, where there would be no doubt that the Buddhist would be offered this job. And where the Christian guitar player would be the first to say so, and would play alongside him for nothing.

However, not all churches are the same. :)
Agreed with JWNEWMAN. This is the best answer in the thread.
 
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Catherineanne

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A non-Christian should not be given that place since they will not be praising and worshipping.

If a non Christian sings a hymn of praise to God, where do you think it goes?

Imo, it goes to God, and he accepts it. What other possibility is there? A bruised reed he will not break, and a smouldering wick he will not put out. :)
 
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