The root of the difference between Christians and Muslims.

TrevorKamal

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Open your mind for a moment and try to rid yourself of any prejudices that you might have attached to the words "Christian" and "Muslim". Even if you feel that you have those prejudices for good reason, cast them aside briefly and focus only on people. No labels, just people living in various parts of the world.

Now try and imagine the time just before the coming of Christ. There was no symbol of the cross. There were no images of Him. None of His words had ever been heard. The name Jesus (or Yeshua) didn't mean anything to a single soul on the planet yet. There were just some people in turmoil who had some vague prophecies of the coming of a Messiah but nobody knew exactly what to expect of them even if they thought they did.

Suddenly, out of nowhere and in an environment with no accurate expectations, a Man arose from the rest and made the most stupefying claim that He was sent by God, the Creator of the universe, to save the people. Something about this Person made the most incredible impression upon some of those people who then went on to spread that impression upon the people of the world.

Now think of the time just before the arrival Muhammad. Nobody had ever heard of Islam or the Qur'an. Mecca and Medina were just two cities on the map. Saying "Allah Akbar" would have gotten you strange looks. There were just some people living in the desert and in this case dealing with some especially savage turmoil.

Suddenly, out of nowhere and in a savage environment with no expectations, a Man arose from the rest and made the most stupefying claim that He was in direct contact with God and was sent with a Message to lead the people out of the darkness they were in. Something about this Person and the Message made the most incredible impression upon some of those people who then spread that impression upon the people of the world.

The important thing here is to wonder what it was that caused these people to be so moved by what they experienced that they saw through every man-made obstacle had no problem in defying what was expected by the status quo. Was it not the same thing? Is a force this strong not worthy of respect by all people? It would be hard to argue against the fact that the element that produces the conviction of belief in the heart of a person who embraces Islam is the very same element which produces it in the heart of a person who embraces Christianity. Why then would either of them reject one and not the other?
 

Annoula

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i would say something else.

in ancient philosophy-religions (eg. Hermes Trismegistos teaching, ancient greek religion) there was the (let's call it) notion of God and His Son.

so Christianity was not something new. it was based in something very deep in the soul and conscious of humanity. this makes me feel confident that there is truth in Christianity. it didn't just come up, it was the result of centuries' of searching and investigation in the human mind and soul.


i don't know if that helps in any way... i just wanted to say it...
 
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glo1

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With all due respect, I disagree with Islam_mulia. The issue between Islam and Christianity is not that of One God. Any Christian will tell you that Christians too believe in the One God.
I don't wish to turn this into another trinity debate - I am sure there are plenty of threads on this ... but if Muslims could understand that Christians do neither believe in multiple gods not worship Jesus as a man, it would greatly help the inter-faith relationships between the two faiths.

At the heart of the differences between Islam and Christianity lies Jesus.
It is quite simple.
Is he God or is he man?
You cannot really sit on the fence on this one! It's either on or the other ...

The choice is yours ... ;)

glo
 
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Islam_mulia

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At the heart of the differences between Islam and Christianity lies Jesus.
It is quite simple.
Is he God or is he man?
You cannot really sit on the fence on this one! It's either on or the other ...

The choice is yours ... ;)

glo
Jesus is a man. I dont think any Christians would disagree with me on this.
 
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There is not much similarity between Christianity & Islam :-‎


‎1-while Christianity believes in trinity, the Holy Quran rejects it:
5:73. Surely, disbelievers are those who said: "Allâh is the third of the three (in a Trinity)." But there is no ilâh (god) (none who has the right to be worshipped) but One Ilâh (God -Allâh). And if they cease not from what they say, verily, a painful torment will befall the disbelievers among them.



‎2- while Christianity considers Jesus a god , the Holy Quran warns against it :
4 : 171. O people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians)! Do not exceed the limits in your religion, nor say of Allâh aught but the truth. The Messiah 'Iesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary), was (no more than) a Messenger of Allâh and His Word, ("Be!" - and he was) which He bestowed on Maryam (Mary) and a spirit (Rûh) created by Him; so believe in Allâh and His Messengers. Say not: "Three (trinity)!" Cease! (it is) better for you. For Allâh is (the only) One Ilâh (God), Glory be to Him (Far Exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belongs all that is in the heavens and all that is in the earth. And Allâh is All­Sufficient as a Disposer of affairs.
‎‎

‎3- while Christianity believes in redemption , the Holy Quran says in ‎‎15: 15. Whoever goes right, then he goes right only for the benefit of ‎his own self. And whoever goes astray, then he goes astray to his ‎own loss. No one laden with burdens can bear another's burden. And ‎We never punish until We have sent a Messenger (to give warning). ‎


4- While Christianity believes Jesus was crucified , the Holy Quran says Christ was neither crucified nor killed:
4:157. And because of their saying (in boast), "We killed Messiah 'Iesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary), the Messenger of Allâh," - but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but the resemblance of 'Iesa (Jesus) was put over another man (and they killed that man), and those who differ therein are full of doubts. They have no (certain) knowledge, they follow nothing but conjecture. For surely; they killed him not [i.e. 'Iesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary) ]:



5- Original Sin is basic in Christianity while according to the Holy Quran all people are born pure , he/she is responsible for his/her own sins and not someone else's:
17: 15. Whoever goes right, then he goes right only for the benefit of his own self. And whoever goes astray, then he goes astray to his own loss. No one laden with burdens can bear another's burden. And We never punish until We have sent a Messenger (to give warning).


6- Christians deny God revealed a Bible for Jesus .the Holy Qur'an says there was. It disappeared while the Holy Quran exists today exactly the same as it was ‎revealed to Muhammad, p.b.u.h. while Christians believe in book everyone knows its source , meaning Christians don not have a book from God:
5:46. And in their footsteps, We sent 'Iesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary) , confirming the Taurât (Torah) that had come before him, and We gave him the Injeel (Gospel), in which was guidance and light and confirmation of the Taurât (Torah) that had come before it, a guidance and an admonition for Al-Muttaqûn (the pious)

‎
7- Christians eat pork and drink wine, Muslims do not



8- Homosexuality is considered to be a perversion and is ‎forbidden in Islam , Since the prohibition on homosexuality is found in the Old ‎Testament only, some Christian sects say it does not ‎apply (i.e. the United Church ordains homosexual ‎ministers).‎



9- Both believe in the Day of Judgment, which will occur on Judgment Day ‎



10- Muslims believe there is ONLY ONE TRUE GOD who created everything, Christians insist that Allah -which is Arabic translation for "God" - is not their God ?!



11- While Islam consider the Prophets of God the best of all men:
38 : 47. And they are with Us, verily, of the chosen and the best, the Bible accuses them of the worst sins:

‎GENESIS 9-21 ‎"And he (Noah) drank of the wine, and was drunken; and he lay NAKED within his tent."


Genesis 9 : 25-27 Noah establishes slavery !


Genesis 19 : 33-36 Lot commits insect with his daughters!

Genesis 20 : 2-5 both Abraham And Sarah claimed they were brother and sister although Deut 27 : 22 curses who sleeps with his sister!

Genesis 26 Isac also claimed his wife was his sister for material gains!

Genesis 35 : 22 Robin , son of prophet Jacob committed incest with his father's concubine !

Genesis 38 : 13- 30 Juda committed incest with his stepmother !

Numbers 20 : 12 both Moses and Aaron did not believe in God !

Deut 32 : 51 Both Moses and Aaron betrayed God !

1Sam 18 : 27 David killed 200 Palestinians and presented their foreskins to the king as a dowry!

1Sam 19:24 'And he (Saul) stripped off his clothes also, and prophesied before ‎Samuel in like manner, and lay down NAKED all that day and all that night Wherefore they ‎say, Is Saul also among the prophets? "

1Sam 21 : 13 David pretended he was insane !

2Sam 21 : 13 David danced and was mocked !

2Sam 11 : 3-28 David committed adultery with a married woman , and ploted to kill her husband!

2Sam 13 : 1-15 Amnon , son of David committed incest with his sister Tamar!

2Sam 16:22 Abshalom , son of David committed adultery with his father's concubines !

1Kings 11 : 1-13 Solomon apostate , built temples for idol worshipping, disobeyed God by marrying 1000 women in spite of Deut 17:17 , and disobeyed God by that marriage Deut 7:3 !

Isai 20:3-4 ‎walked naked and ‎barefoot three years!!!

moreover,the Bible claims happened to Jesus PBUH. I will not go into detail for the matter is too long and known to everyone!

Mat 27 : 1-50
Mark 15 : 1-38
Luke 23 : 1-47
John 19 : 1-30
 
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TrevorKamal

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This thread has turned into a theological argument between Christians and Muslims. You're all missing the point of the OP. The beliefs that you're arguing about have roots. What causes one of those roots to be stronger to one person than another? Something compelled people to believe that Jesus of Nazareth was the Messiah even though it was against the scriptural interpretation of the status quo. It was strong enough to overcome that obstacle to belief. Likewise something compelled people to believe that Muhammad was a Prophet of God even though it was against the scriptural interpretation of the status quo. It was again strong enough to overcome such an obstacle to belief.

What caused the obstacles to exist? What was strong enough to overcome them in the minds of some? Every other argument between Christians and Muslims is moot. This is the fork in the path.
 
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Islam_mulia

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Yes, there is a disagreement. Your question seems to be an agreeable and an innocent one; however it is designed to elimanate the truth we see--that He is both flesh and God.
My answer was supposed to put things in proper perspective. Jesus (as) was a man, a messenger of God. These were made clear in the bible. Whatever divinie attributes you erroneously put on him, does not change the status of Jesus, the son of Mary.
 
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TrevorKamal

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Yes, there is a disagreement. Your question seems to be an agreeable and an innocent one; however it is designed to elimanate the truth we see--that He is both flesh and God.

My answer was supposed to put things in proper perspective. Jesus (as) was a man, a messenger of God. These were made clear in the bible. Whatever divinie attributes you erroneously put on him, does not change the status of Jesus, the son of Mary.

What is the difference between "Son of God" and "Messenger of God" assuming were talking neither of a physical offspring nor a man with a telegram in his hand?
 
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Islam_mulia

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What is the difference between "Son of God" and "Messenger of God" assuming were talking neither of a physical offspring nor a man with a telegram in his hand?
In the words of Jesus, as reported in the bible:

1. A Messenger of God

"He who listens to you listens to me; he who rejects you rejects me; but he who rejects me rejects him who sent me." (Luke 10:16)

By myself I can do nothing; I judge only as I hear, and my judgment is just, for I seek not to please myself but him who sent me. (John 5:30)

Jesus answered, "My teaching is not my own. It comes from him who sent me. (John 7:16)

2. A son of God

Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called sons of God. (Matt 5:9)
 
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Arthra

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I think if Muslims and Christians truly looked for them they could find areas of agreement and have some things in common.... but to do that you have to be willing to be flexible and truly listen to the other.

It starts I think with inter-faith meetings and conferences so that the people actually sit down together and try to sort things out without condeming the other and have a positive atmosphere where issues can be shared without becoming negative and hostile.

- Art
 
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glo1

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There is not much similarity between Christianity & Islam :-‎
I agree that the differnces between our faiths are great, but we also share a fair bit in common:
  • we believe in he ONE God of Abraham
  • we share many of the old prophets
  • we believe that Jesus was born by the virgin Mary
  • we believe that Jesus will return on the last day

Peace

glo
 
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Bookofknowledge

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Open your mind for a moment and try to rid yourself of any prejudices that you might have attached to the words "Christian" and "Muslim". Even if you feel that you have those prejudices for good reason, cast them aside briefly and focus only on people. No labels, just people living in various parts of the world.

Now try and imagine the time just before the coming of Christ. There was no symbol of the cross. There were no images of Him. None of His words had ever been heard. The name Jesus (or Yeshua) didn't mean anything to a single soul on the planet yet. There were just some people in turmoil who had some vague prophecies of the coming of a Messiah but nobody knew exactly what to expect of them even if they thought they did.

Suddenly, out of nowhere and in an environment with no accurate expectations, a Man arose from the rest and made the most stupefying claim that He was sent by God, the Creator of the universe, to save the people. Something about this Person made the most incredible impression upon some of those people who then went on to spread that impression upon the people of the world.

Now think of the time just before the arrival Muhammad. Nobody had ever heard of Islam or the Qur'an. Mecca and Medina were just two cities on the map. Saying "Allah Akbar" would have gotten you strange looks. There were just some people living in the desert and in this case dealing with some especially savage turmoil.

Suddenly, out of nowhere and in a savage environment with no expectations, a Man arose from the rest and made the most stupefying claim that He was in direct contact with God and was sent with a Message to lead the people out of the darkness they were in. Something about this Person and the Message made the most incredible impression upon some of those people who then spread that impression upon the people of the world.

The important thing here is to wonder what it was that caused these people to be so moved by what they experienced that they saw through every man-made obstacle had no problem in defying what was expected by the status quo. Was it not the same thing? Is a force this strong not worthy of respect by all people? It would be hard to argue against the fact that the element that produces the conviction of belief in the heart of a person who embraces Islam is the very same element which produces it in the heart of a person who embraces Christianity. Why then would either of them reject one and not the other?

You are smart, I think your asking people to look before the time of Jesus (AS) and Muhammad (SAW) however you have to acknowledge the belief of Christianity and Islam that the concept of God guiding mankind existed since Mankind (Adam) was created.

I agree with you that Prophets came to guide mankind mostly in unexpected time yet they were some times known since their childhood. We also need to acknowledge that what made the people to accept the message when they were called to worship One God without Patners. God helped His Chosen Prophets with miracles & sings to guide mankind and there are signs in today's world for those who ponder and think.

The elements to embrace a religion are not the same because we can find the example of such right & wrong if we read the era of Moses (AS)...
 
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farside

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”Islam_mulia” said:
The issue of the One God, that none should associate anything with Him, could be the main issue that separates Islam from Christianity.
But Muslims associate Muhammad with the One God all the time. Throughout the Quran, Allah and Muhammad are joined together as a unified subject.

Example: Quran 8.1 They ask thee concerning spoils of war. Say: " spoils:help: are at the disposal of Allah and the Messenger: So fear Allah, and keep straight the relations between yourselves: Obey Allah and His Messenger, if ye do believe."


P.S. The deification of Muhammad is formally established in the Shahadah.

Kind Regards,
Farside
21.gif
 
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TrevorKamal

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But Muslims associate Muhammad with the One God all the time. Throughout the Quran, Allah and Muhammad are joined together as a unified subject.

Example: Quran 8.1 They ask thee concerning spoils of war. Say: " spoils:help: are at the disposal of Allah and the Messenger: So fear Allah, and keep straight the relations between yourselves: Obey Allah and His Messenger, if ye do believe."


P.S. The deification of Muhammad is formally established in the Shahadah.

Kind Regards,
Farside
21.gif

The association seems to be limited in the sense that the Messenger only speaks for God. Does it suggest otherwise to you? Also, where in the Shahadah is the deification of Muhammad?
 
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Skillganon

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This thread has turned into a theological argument between Christians and Muslims. You're all missing the point of the OP. The beliefs that you're arguing about have roots. What causes one of those roots to be stronger to one person than another? Something compelled people to believe that Jesus of Nazareth was
the Messiah

Hello

I think no muslim will not disagree on specifically the highlighted part, otherwise they are not muslims.

What Allah(s.w.t) disagree on is worshipping a man i.e. Isa bin maryam, a prophet of God. Disagree on worshipping the Masih as ilah with God, even if the argument goes that Isa is God and part of the holy trinity which somehow is the One God.

This is exactly what Isa bin maryam preached during his time is to "take no god beside Allah". IS to not worship other's beside him, even if one say they are gods or even if they one acknowledge they are human or just plain old idols like Ibrahim did.

Directing one's worship other's beside Allah or associating partners with him in worship in "any form" is a great sin. Worship is only due to Allah(s.w.t) and their is none beside him as gods/idols/humans or anything with him in worship.

This is the fundemtal key. Second come's accpeting Allah(s.w.t) and that is accepting his prophets (i.e. Adam, Musa, Isa, Muhammad e.t.c . When you reject their call you have rejected the call of Allah(s.w.t) and saying I follow Abraham and Musa is a fake will not save you from what is stored for you in the hereafter.

It is that serious.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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Originally Posted by TrevorKamal This thread has turned into a theological argument between Christians and Muslims. You're all missing the point of the OP. The beliefs that you're arguing about have roots. What causes one of those roots to be stronger to one person than another? Something compelled people to believe that Jesus of Nazareth was
the Messiah
I think no muslim will not disagree on specifically the highlighted part, otherwise they are not muslims.

What Allah(s.w.t) disagree on is worshipping a man i.e. Isa bin maryam, a prophet of God. Disagree on worshipping the Masih as ilah with God, even if the argument goes that Isa is God and part of the holy trinity which somehow is the One God.
Hi Skill. The Lord Jesus brought the Word of the LORD down to us.
I don't believe it is a matter of "worshipping Jesus" as following His Words of Eternal Life He brought for both the Jews and non-Jews, yes, including the Muslims. ;)

(Young) John 3:13 and no one hath gone up to the heaven, except he who out of the heaven came down--the Son of Man who is in the heaven.

1 corin 15:45 so also it hath been written, `The first man Adam became a living creature,' the last Adam [is] for a life-giving spirit, 46 but that which is spiritual [is] not first, but that which [was] natural, afterwards that which [is] spiritual. 47 The first man [is] out of the earth, earthy; the second man [is] the Lord out of heaven; 48 as [is] the earthy, such [are] also the earthy; and as [is] the heavenly, such [are] also the heavenly; 49 and, according as we did bear the image of the earthy, we shall bear also the image of the heavenly.

http://www.christianforums.com/t4559751-revelation-a-jewish-polemic-book.html
revelation-a-jewish-polemic-book
 
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