God's Perfect Hatred

B®ent · Jan 16, 2007

Our God is a God of Love, but also a God of Hate. Too common is the myth that God "hates the sin but loves the sinner." This is a lie! In many instances, as evident in the scriptures, God hates the individual who commits the wicked deed. Yes, it is true that our God is a God of Love, but He is also a God of Hate.

The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity. (Psalm 5:5)

As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated. What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid. For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. (Romans 9:13-15)

The LORD trieth the righteous: but the wicked and him that loveth violence his soul hateth. (Psalm 11:5)

All their wickedness is in Gilgal: for there I hated them: for the wickedness of their doings I will drive them out of mine house, I will love them no more: all their princes are revolters. (Hosea 9:15)

And ye shall not walk in the manners of the nation, which I cast out before you: for they committed all these things, and therefore I abhorred them. (Leviticus 20:23)

:amen:

Praise be to our God, for He is a Holy!

staveoffzombies · Jan 17, 2007

Ripping a few verses out of context does not make any kind of case that God "hates" anyone.

MaidforHim · Jan 17, 2007

I imagine that God, being able to see all that is in a persons heart and mind, and being able to see the beginning and end of time and all that happens in between... I would think God can see those individuals that have no good in them, no desire for good, no remorse for their wicked deeds, those that embrace evil and always will, those that their evil ways to the end of their lives without ever looking back.

I could understand how God could hate someone like that.

For example: How long would a man/woman have to go on murdering innocent children, sacrificing them to idols, worshipping satan, without ever feeling remorse, but rather doing these things with zeal... how long, how many times before those deeds are not only what they do, but who they are?

If God can see they never turn away from the sin, but always revel in it in flat out defiance of Him.... How could God not hate them?

Also, if you know your Bible, you know which texts those verses were taken from, the meaning is clear. I think God hated certain individuals for very just reasons.

B®ent · Jan 17, 2007

That is an excellent assessment, MaidforHim.

MaidforHim · Jan 18, 2007

B®ent;30835271 said:
That is an excellent assessment, MaidforHim.

Thank you Brent, this is a great topic.

I think too many new age ideas and cults base their false beliefs on the fact that God has only love. Like He has no wrath, but the Bible clearly tells us that He does. He even says He's a jealous God. Hatred, jealousy and anger might be sins in man in most cases, but I believe God has a righteous and Holy version of these emotions. In His righteousness and pure fairness and His love, I think God appropriatly feels a righteous form of these emotions towards certain evil individuals, or situations.

staveoffzombies · Jan 18, 2007

Of course God has WRATH. God has plenty of wrath. And he hates sin in all it's manifistations. But He does not hate a sinner...someone who is not saved is STILL made in God's image remember.

desmalia · Jan 18, 2007

MaidforHim said:
Thank you Brent, this is a great topic.

I think too many new age ideas and cults base their false beliefs on the fact that God has only love. Like He has no wrath, but the Bible clearly tells us that He does. He even says He's a jealous God. Hatred, jealousy and anger might be sins in man in most cases, but I believe God has a righteous and Holy version of these emotions. In His righteousness and pure fairness and His love, I think God appropriatly feels a righteous form of these emotions towards certain evil individuals, or situations.

And all God's people said
:amen:

Well said!

mothcorrupteth · Jan 18, 2007

You forget one very telling verse, B®ent (I like your user name, by the way ):

"These six hath Jehovah hated, Yea, seven [are] abominations to His soul. Eyes high--tongues false--And hands shedding innocent blood--A heart devising thoughts of vanity--Feet hasting to run to evil--A false witness [who] doth breathe out lies--And one sending forth contentions between brethren." (Prov. 6:16-19, Young's Literal)

These are all descriptions of sin--told through the body parts. Notice that it is not just the haughtiness and lying and murdering God hates; it is also the eyes and tongues and hands that express them. And it graduates up to entire persons--"a false witness" and on "one sending forth contentions." If God "hates the sin but loves the sinner," why does His wrath abide upon that which does the sin? As it is written in Matthew 18:9, "f thine eye doth cause thee to stumble, pluck it out and cast from thee; it is good for thee one-eyed to enter into the life, rather than having two eyes to be cast to the gehenna of the fire." God hates sinners.

But just for the benefit of staveoffzombies, who here can corroborate this with John 3:16? "For God did so love the world, that His Son--the only begotten--He gave, that every one who is believing in him may not perish, but may have life everlasting." If God hates sin, and the world is in sin, then how did He love the world?

B®ent · Jan 18, 2007

Moth,

The term 'World' in John 3:16 is translated from the Greek term 'kosmos', which does not always refer to every individual human being; but often to a great number of people. Of course, God does command a 'general love' toward unbelievers. However, some unbelievers are especially wicked (i.e. Saddam Hussein) -- I believe these are the individuals hated by God.

Stave,

But He does not hate a sinner...

The verses I posted clearly demonstrate otherwise...

staveoffzombies · Jan 18, 2007

kosmos:

[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Arial, Geneva][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Arial, Geneva] the world, the universe
the circle of the earth, the earth
the inhabitants of the earth, men, the human family
the ungodly multitude; the whole mass of men alienated from God, and therefore hostile to the cause of Christ
world affairs, the aggregate of things earthly
[/FONT][/FONT]

B®ent · Jan 18, 2007

staveoffzombies said:
the inhabitants of the earth, men,

Bingo! 'Kosmos' sometimes refers to a great number of men (and women), and not necessarily each and every human being in the whole world. This depends on the context of the passage. In the case of John 3:16, I would argue that Jesus is speaking of God's love toward the Elect people.

The same principle applies to the word 'all'. Did the Christians in Acts 2:45 divide their possessions to every human being in the entire world?

[bible]Acts 2:45[/bible]

Doubtful.

Did John baptize every human being in Jerusalem?
Including the Pharisees?

[bible]Mark 1:5[/bible]

Point-proven.

- Brent

staveoffzombies · Jan 19, 2007

"And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need."

This is talking about those who had need, it's obviously not talking about EVERYONE in the world.

"And there went out unto him all the land of Judaea, and they of Jerusalem, and were all baptized of him in the river of Jordan, confessing their sins."

Again, this is obviously not talking about everyone.

I fail to see how this proves a point in relation to John 3:16. John 3:16 says nothing about any "elect" it says the world. Unless the translation itself is in error?

B®ent · Jan 19, 2007

staveoffzombies said:
This is talking about those who had need, it's obviously not talking about EVERYONE in the world.

I know. That was my point!
In some cases, 'all' is not all-inclusive.

I fail to see how this proves a point in relation to John 3:16. John 3:16 says nothing about any "elect" it says the world.

The context, I believe, is "whosoever believeth in him..."

Unless the translation itself is in error?

Not a chance.

If you wish to discuss this further, please begin a new thread in another forum.

staveoffzombies · Jan 19, 2007

The context, I believe, is "whosoever believeth in him..."

Yes, but the "world" part of that comes BEFORE the "whosoever believeth."

But I'll stop here as you don't wish for this to turn into a long drawn out debate. No hard feelings.

jlujan69 · Jan 19, 2007

God's hatred, like His wrath, is perfectly moral, so it's possible that the hatred He feels for certain individuals is not the same as the hatred we feel for our fellow man. Also, consider that Jesus said that whoever doesn't hate father and mother isn't worthy of Him. Obviously, Jesus isn't advocating the same kind of hatred that makes us murderers at heart.

mothcorrupteth · Jan 19, 2007

B®ent;30870760 said:
Moth,

The term 'World' in John 3:16 is translated from the Greek term 'kosmos', which does not always refer to every individual human being; but often to a great number of people.

Indeed. I heard a U.K. minister one time who explain that "loved," being in the Aorist tense in the Greek, was an action. This didn't make any sense to me, as consideration of the Aorist adds nothing to the sense of the verse except to reflect that this "love" is temporally boundless, which is a no brainer.

RealityCheck · Jan 28, 2007

Hate is evil. Therefore, if you say God hates, then God is evil.

mothcorrupteth · Jan 28, 2007

RealityCheck said:
Hate is evil. Therefore, if you say God hates, then God is evil.

Premise Minor: God is absolutely good.
Check of Proof: Psalm 118:1,29 - Matthew 19:17 - Luke 18:19 - John 10:32 - Romans 11:22 - 3. John 1:11
Put another way: All things of God are good.

Premise Major: God does hate.
Check of Proof: Leviticus 20:23 - Psalm 5:5 - Psalm 11:5 - Prov. 6:16-19 - Hosea 9:15 - Romans 9:13-15
Put another way: Some things of God are hateful.

Simple syllogism: Some hate (God's, at least) must be good.
Conclusion: Thus, the premise "Hate is evil" cannot be absolutely true.

RealityCheck · Jan 28, 2007

Your minor premise is flawed, as the Bible clearly states that God is not only the source of good, but also of evil:

Isaiah 45:7 - I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

Jeremiah 49: 37 - For I will cause Elam to be dismayed before their enemies, and before them that seek their life: and I will bring evil upon them, even my fierce anger, saith the LORD; and I will send the sword after them, till I have consumed them:

Exodus 32:14 - And the LORD repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people.

Jonah 3:10 - And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not.

mothcorrupteth · Jan 28, 2007

Then excuse me: I ought have said, "All things of God's nature are good," and, "Some things of God's nature are hateful." The last verses you call forth refer to acts, namely of pronouncing judgment and creating distress, and use the term "evil" not in the sense of wickedness, perversion, etc. (moral evils), but in the sense of, "Bad things were in store for them because they were disobedient little cretins yet again." The notions that "God is evil" and "evils come from God" are as completely separate premises as are the grammatical categories into which "evil" falls in either.

Besides which, you just shot yourself in the foot if you fail to make this distinction because you formerly ridiculed the notion that God hates on the grounds that it would render God evil.

God's Perfect Hatred

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sounds like somebody's got a case of the mondays

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