A simple look at a Bible contradiction

Thunderchild

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The only "error" in the Holy Bible Authorized Version has to do with YOUR faith.
Quite true... but then, my faith is invested in the God whom Jesus preached, so that is only the proper outcome.

LightBearer: If you were shown the small things and recognised and acknowledged them, there might be some point in pursuing the more important and significant errors, which, being bound up in complexity, don't lend themselves readily to demonstration.
 
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Thunderchild

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Oh yes, though you have made assertions and statements, you still have'nt shown me a contradiction from scripture yet.
From post number 20 of this thread ... correct me if I am wrong, but I am sure that post 20 was made after post number 18
Which is the error when it comes to the gospel accounts of the events in Jerusalem during following palm Sunday? Did Jesus clear the temple on Palm Sunday, or was it the day after? (depends on which account you read) Did Jesus curse the fig tree before he cleared the temple or after? (depends on which account you read) Did the tree visibly wither immediately, or did the withering not get noticed until the evening? (depends on which account you read).
 
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Thunderchild

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I don't have any problems with the scriptures, LightBearer.

There are enough demonstrations at http://pub43.ezboard.com/fwayrunnersfrm8
to show that the people who have problems with scripture are often those who insist on declaring that everything in the Bible is scripture.
 
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LightBearer

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By Thunderchild.  I don't have any problems with the scriptures, LightBearer.

If as you claim they contradict each other, I suggest you have some very serious problems with scripture.  In fact, the comment "I dont have any problems with the scriptures" is in itself a contradiction of your veiws of the scriptures since you say they contrdict each other.

 

So you cant actually quote me any scriptures that you claim contradict each other. It appears then that you are just making claims and assertions.
 
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Thunderchild

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Piffle. I have problems with the claim that things not scripture are scripture.

For example - While people are very fond of declaring that everything in the Bible is scriptural, they have difficulty in accepting that the Bible itself declares that nothing is established even as fact, much less scripture, except that there be two reliable and independent witnesses. The requirement for two witnesses is repeatedly declared. So, in the absence of two witnesses, a matter is not established to be fact.

You may tell me that everything in the Bible is scripture - I will declare that scripture cannot be broken. It cannot be demonstrated to be false, nor can it be demonstrated to use a false basis for its statements.

A simple demonstration of how the process works, not taken from the Bible, but simply a demonstration:

"We know that the Christ has already returned because the sun rises in the west." Given that the supporting argument (the sun rises in the west) is false, it is readily apparent that the declaration - relying as it does on a false statement - is also false. Whether or not the Christ has already returned is irrelevant - the statement is proven to be not scriptural (or maybe it is just sarcastic - in which case it might be scriptural).


But how do we know whether the writer was being sarcastic or had made a mistake? It would depend on whether he actually believed that the sun rises in the west. If he thought that the supporting argument was factual, it would be clearly demonstrated that the statement was incorrect - it could not possibly be scriptural. 


Now "A man must not have long hair. Does not nature itself teach you that if a male has long hair, it is a disgrace to him." Nature itself teaches no such thing - it is the lion that has the long hair, not the lioness. Either the writer is being sarcastic, or the statement is not scripture. But using as it does a false statement for support, taking the declaration as if it is true (on the grounds that everything in the Bible is scripture no less), is wholly illogical: not to mention a violation of the rules to be put into use when establishing whether a given writing is scripture inspired by God.

 

 
 
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LightBearer

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I think it's time to call it a day. :( :scratch:  I'm sure we will have other discussions on the boards Thunderchild.  Please don't think that the points you've made hav'nt interested me, they have, and I will continue to read your other posts with interest.

Catch you later.

Peace.

LightBearer. 
 
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You guys are kidding, right? There are many many more than these few

Think not that I come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. - Matthew 10:28 ... all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword. - Matthew 26:52

And no man hath ascended up to heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven. - John 3:13 ... and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven. - 2 Kings 2:11

If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true. - John 5:31 I am one that bear witness of myself... - John 8:18

A good man leaveth an inheritance to his children's children... - Proverbs 13:22 Sell that ye have and give alms... - Luke 12:33

Blessed is the man that feareth the Lord... Wealth and riches shall be in his house... - Psalms 112:1-3 It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God. - Matthew 19:24

I and my father are one. - John 10:30 ... I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I. - John 14:28

Thou shalt not kill - Exodus 20:13 Thus saith the Lord God of Israel, Put every man his sword by his side... and slay every man his brother... - Exodus 32:27

Remember the sabbath day to keep it holy. - Exodus 20:8 The new moons and sabbaths, the calling of assemblies, I cannot away with: it is iniquity. - Isaiah 3:22

Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven... earth... water. - Leviticus 26:11 And thou shalt make two cherubim of gold, of beaten work shalt thou make them. - Exodus 25:18

For by grace are ye saved through faith... not of works. - Ephesians 2:8-9 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only. - James 2:24

God is not a man, that he should lie: neither the son of man, that he should repent. - Numbers 23:19 And the Lord repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people. - Exodus 32:14

... the hour is coming, in which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, and come forth... - John 5:28-29 As the cloud is consumed and vanisheth away: so he that goeth down to the grave shall come up no more. - Job 7:9

... thou shalt give life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, burning for burning, wound for wound, stripe for stripe. - Exodus 21:23-25 ... resist not evil; but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also. - Matthew 5:39

Honor thy father and mother. - Exodus 20:12 If any man come to me, and hate not his father and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple. - Luke 14:26

Lay not up for yourself treasures upon the earth... - Matthew 6:19 In the house of the righteous is much treasure... - Proverbs 15:6

I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved. - Genesis 32:30 No man hath seen God at any time. - John 1:18

The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father. - Ezekiel 18:20 ... I the lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation. - Exodus 20:5

Happy is the man that findeth wisdom, and the man that getteth understanding. - Proverbs 3:13 For in much wisdom is much grief; and he that increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow. - Ecclesiastes 1:18

The Lord is good to all. - Psalm 145:6 I make peace and create evil. I the Lord do all these things. - Isaiah 45:7

Whosoever shall say Thou fool, shall be in danger of hellfire. - Matthew 5:22 Ye fools and blind. - Matthew 23:17

For all have sinned. - Romans 3:23 There was a man... whose name was Job; and that man was perfect and upright. - Job 1:1

Two and twenty years old was Ahaziah when he began to reign. - 2 Kings 8:26 Forty and two years old was Ahaziah when he began to reign. - 2 Chronicles 22:2

If a man vow a vow unto the Lord or swear an oath... he shall do according to all that proceedeth out of his mouth. - Numbers 30:2 But I say unto you, swear not at all; neither by heaven... nor by earth. - Matthew 5:34-35

... the earth abideth forever. - Ecclesiastes 1:4 ... the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. - 2 Peter 3:10

... for I am merciful, saith the Lord, and I will not keep anger forever. - Jeremiah 3:12 Ye have kindled a fire in mine anger, which shall burn forever. - Jeremiah 17:4

... God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man. - James 1:13 And it came to pass after these things, that God did tempt Abraham. - Genesis 22:1

And God saw everything that he made, and behold it was very good. - Genesis 1:31 And it repented the Lord that he had made man on earth, and it grieved him at his heart - Genesis 6:6

For now have I chosen and sanctified this house that my name be there forever; and mine eyes and my heart shall be there perpetually. - II Corinthians 7:16 Howbeit the most high dwelleth not in temples made with hands. - Acts 7:48

in the light which no man can approach unto. - I Timothy 6:16 The Lord said that he would dwell in the thick darkness. - I Kings 8:12

And the Lord called unto Adam, and said unto him, Where art thou? And he said, I heard thy voice in the garden, and I was afraid. - Genesis 3:9,10 Ye hath neither heard his voice, at any time, nor seen his shape. - John 5:37

Then went up Moses and Aaron, Nadab and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel. And they saw the God of Israel... They saw God, and did eat and drink. - Exodus 24: 9-11 Whom no man hath seen nor can see. - I Timothy 6:16

With God all things are possible. - Matthew 29:26 And the Lord was with Judah, and he drove out the inhabitants of the mountain; but could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron. - Judges 1:19

God is not the author of confusion. - I Corinthians 24:33 Out of the mouth of the most high proceedeth not evil and good? - Lamentations 3:38

Those that seek me early shall find me. - Proverbs 8:17 Then shall they call upon me but I will not answer; they shall seek me early, but shall not find me. - Proverbs 1:28

On the tenth day of this seventh month there shall be a day of atonement; it shall be a holy convocation unto you; and ye shall afflict your souls and offer an offering made by fire unto the Lord. - Leviticus 23:27 For I spake not unto your fathers, nor commanded them in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, concerning burnt offering or sacrifices. - Jeremiah 7:22

And the priest shall burn all on the altar to be a burnt sacrifice, an offering made by fire, of a sweet savor unto the Lord. - Leviticus 1:9 Your burnt offering are not acceptable, nor your sacrifices sweet unto me. - Jeremiah 7:20

God is not a man, that he should lie - Numbers 23:19 And if the prophet be deceived when he hath spoken a thing, I the Lord have deceived that prophet. - Ezekiel 24:9

There is none other God but one. - I Corinthians 8:4 And God said, Let us make man in our image. - Genesis 1:26

When ye go, ye shall not go empty; but every woman shall borrow of her neighbor, and of her that sojourneth in her house, jewels of silver and jewels of gold, and raiment; and ye shall put them on your sons and upon your daughters; and ye shall spoil the Egyptians. - Exodus 3:21,22 Thou shalt not defraud thy neighbor, nether rob him. - Leviticus 19:13

At the hand of every man's brother will I require the life of man. Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed. - Genesis 4:5,6 And the Lord set a mark upon Cain, lest any finding him should kill him. - Genesis 4:15

Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow; they toil not, neither do they spin... if God so clothe the grass of the field... shall he not much more clothe you? Therefore, take no thought, saying what shall we eat? or what shall we drink? Or wherewithal shall we be clothed?... Take, therefore, no thought for the morrow. - Matthew 6:28, 30-34 But if any provideth not for his own, especially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel. - I Timothy 5:8

Be ye angry and sin not. - Ephesians 4:26 Be not hasty in thy spirit to be angry; for anger resideth in the bosom of fools. - Ecclesiastes 7:9

Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works. - Matthew 5:16 Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of them. - Matthew 6:1

And Solomon stood before the alter of the Lord, in the presence of all the congregation of Israel, and spread forth his hands toward heaven... - I Kings 7:22 When thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are; for they love to pray standing in the synagogues, and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men... - Matthew 6:5

And no razor shall come on his head; for the child shall be a Nazarite unto God from the womb. - Judges 8:5 Doth not even nature itself teach you, that if a man hath long hair, it is a shame unto him? - I Corinthians 6:14

Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy. - Exodus 20:8 One man esteemeth one day above another; another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind. - Romans 14:5

For in the six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day; wherefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it. - Exodus 20:11 And remember that thou wast a servant in the land of Egypt, and that the Lord thy God brought the out thence through a mighty hand and by a stretched-out arm; therefore the Lord thy God commanded the to keep the Sabbath day. - Deuteronomy 5:15

There is nothing unclean of itself. - Romans 14:14 Nevertheless, these shall ye not eat, of them that chew the cud or of them that divide the cloven hoof; as the camel and the hare, and the coney; for they chew the cud, but divide not the hoof, therefore they are unclean unto you. And the swine, because it divideth the hoof, yet cheweth not the cud, it is unclean unto you; ye shall not eat of their flesh, nor touch their dead carcass. - Deuteronomy 14:7,8

Cursed is he that lieth with his sister, the daughter of his father, or the daughter of his mother. - Deuteronomy 27:22 And Abraham said... She is my sister; she is the daughter of my father, but not the daughter of my mother; and she became my wife. - Genesis 20:11,12

If brethren dwell together, and one of them die and have no child, the wife of the dead shall not marry without unto a stranger; her husband's brother shall go in unto her, and take her to him to wife. - Deuteronomy 25:5 If a man shall take his brother's wife, it is an unclean thing...they shall be childless. - Leviticus 20:21

He that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness. - Mark 3:29 And by him that believe are justified from all things. - Acts 13:39

is Elias which was for to come. - Matthew 11:14 And they asked him, what then? Art thou Elias? And he saith, I am not. - John 1:21

Now, after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God. - Mark 1:14 After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judea... now John was also baptising in Aenon... for John was not yet cast into prison. - John 3:22-24

And it was in the third hour, and they crucified him. - Mark 25:3-4 And it was the preparation of the passover, and about the sixth hour; and he saith unto the Jews, behold your king... Shall I crucify your king? - John 19:14-15

They gave him vinegar to drink, mingled with gall. - Matthew 27:34 And they gave him to drink, wine mingled with myrrh. - Mark 15:23

And the men which journyed with stood speechless, hearing a voice, but seeing no man. - Acts 9:7 And they that were with me saw indeed the light and were afraid; but they heard not the voice of him that spake to me. - Acts 22:9

Abraham had two sons; one by a bonds-maid, the other by a free woman. - Galtians 4:22 By faith, Abraham when he was tried offered up Isaac... his only begotten son. - Hebrews 11:17

Therefore Michal, the daughter of Saul, had no child unto the day of her death. - II Samuel 6:23 The five sons of Michal, the daughter of Saul. - II Samuel 21:8

And the anger of the Lord was kindled against Israel, and he moved David against them to say, Go, number Israel. - II Samuel 24:1 And Satan stood up against Israel, and provoked David to number Israel. - I Chronicles 21:1

All power is given unto in heaven and in earth. - Matthew 28:18 And could there do no mighty work, save that he laid his hands on a few sick folk and healed them. - Mark 6:5

There shall no evil happen to the just. - Proverbs 12:21 Whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth. - Hebrews 12:6

Get back to me...;)

smaller
 
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Jephunneh

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Originally posted by LightBearer
If as you claim they contradict each other, I suggest you have some very serious problems with scripture.  In fact, the comment "I dont have any problems with the scriptures" is in itself a contradiction of your veiws of the scriptures since you say they contrdict each other.

 

So you cant actually quote me any scriptures that you claim contradict each other. It appears then that you are just making claims and assertions.

 

Are there any scripture quotes from thunderchild?
 
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Originally posted by smaller
You guys are kidding, right? There are many many more than these few

Think not that I come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. - Matthew 10:28 ... all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword. - Matthew 26:52

And no man hath ascended up to heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven. - John 3:13 ... and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven. - 2 Kings 2:11

If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true. - John 5:31 I am one that bear witness of myself... - John 8:18

A good man leaveth an inheritance to his children's children... - Proverbs 13:22 Sell that ye have and give alms... - Luke 12:33



etc .........

 

How many Christians are in this forum? How come no one has responded to this long list posted by smaller?
 
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seebs

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Originally posted by spiritualscientist
etc .........

 

How many Christians are in this forum? How come no one has responded to this long list posted by smaller?

1. It's technically against the rules to post big lists quoted from other sites; you're supposed to take one point at a time so the discussion can go somewhere.

2. Given the number of runs through this we've seen, responses have probably been posted for most of those already, probably on several occasions.

3. It's more out-of-context-quoting, and it's not even clear that they're really contradictions; calling these "contradictions" is in many cases like claiming that modern physics is "self-contradictory" because, when I throw a ball up in the air, physics says that inertia means it'll tend to keep going, and gravity means it'll tend to fall back down.

Just to take one at random, so you're happy:
---
Lay not up for yourself treasures upon the earth... - Matthew 6:19 In the house of the righteous is much treasure... - Proverbs 15:6
---

No contradiction. Proverbs didn't say that the righteous man was saving up treasures as though they would get him into heaven. Furthermore, keep in mind that both are somewhat metaphorical, and both have context which was omitted. I wouldn't call that a contradiction.

There's also a reference to the "let us make man in our image" thing as if it contradicts a singular God. I don't see this as any more contradictory than the use of the "royal we" by a single monarch.
 
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Are you a Christian seebs? I thought you were a skeptic. It appears the Christians in this forum are not firery. Fundies don't keep quiet when they see this kind of literature.

You have geralised too much by saying there are no contradictions. And just gave an example of one that has no contradiction.

At least 80% of them are contradictory. Look at this for example.

Blessed is the man that feareth the Lord... Wealth and riches shall be in his house... - Psalms 112:1-3 It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God. - Matthew 19:24

 

 
 
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seebs

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Originally posted by spiritualscientist
Are you a Christian seebs? I thought you were a skeptic. It appears the Christians in this forum are not firery. Fundies don't keep quiet when they see this kind of literature.

I don't see why Christianity and skepticism are to be seen as mutually exclusive. If we're talking *PROOF*, I still have "external world" and "formal logic" on the "can't get there from here" list. So, I put 'em in as axioms. After quite a bit of consideration, I added theism to the list. Eventually, I added Christianity to the list.

Mostly, we're sick of the same old repetitions over and over.

Keep in mind, some of it is a question of which things are being taken as premises. To a person who starts with "Bible is inerrant" as a premise, any alleged contradiction simply means that the Bible needs to be read more carefully, or possibly differently. To a person who starts out wondering whether or not it's inerrant, it's easy to just say "huh, this reading makes a contradiction, therefore it's contradictory". I think both views have some potential merits; I don't think people on either side are necessarily stupid, but I do think it shows a lack of clue when they attack each others' position without addressing the underlying difference in worldview first.



You have geralised too much by saying there are no contradictions. And just gave an example of one that has no contradiction.

Ahh, but one is all I need to show that the person presenting the list didn't make even the initial sincere effort to think these things through before waving them at us; that makes it look like troll behavior.


At least 80% of them are contradictory. Look at this for example.

Blessed is the man that feareth the Lord... Wealth and riches shall be in his house... - Psalms 112:1-3 It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God. - Matthew 19:24

At this point, we might actually be obliged to go looking at the context. If we read the context, it becomes clear that the issue here is not whether or not you own things, but whether or not they own you. The early church was supported by many people, some of them fairly wealthy... but, rather than seeing wealth as an end, they saw the flourishing of the church as an end, and wealth as one possible means.

Any time a contradiction depends on taking something Christ said completely literally, you want to stop and think about the *message*, because the man was famous for talking in stories, parables, riddles, and the like. I wouldn't be half surprised if He'd somehow managed to study Zen before starting His ministry.
 
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Originally posted by seebs
I don't see why Christianity and skepticism are to be seen as mutually exclusive. If we're talking *PROOF*, I still have "external world" and "formal logic" on the "can't get there from here" list. So, I put 'em in as axioms. After quite a bit of consideration, I added theism to the list. Eventually, I added Christianity to the list.

Mostly, we're sick of the same old repetitions over and over.

Keep in mind, some of it is a question of which things are being taken as premises. To a person who starts with "Bible is inerrant" as a premise, any alleged contradiction simply means that the Bible needs to be read more carefully, or possibly differently. To a person who starts out wondering whether or not it's inerrant, it's easy to just say "huh, this reading makes a contradiction, therefore it's contradictory". I think both views have some potential merits; I don't think people on either side are necessarily stupid, but I do think it shows a lack of clue when they attack each others' position without addressing the underlying difference in worldview first.




Ahh, but one is all I need to show that the person presenting the list didn't make even the initial sincere effort to think these things through before waving them at us; that makes it look like troll behavior.



At this point, we might actually be obliged to go looking at the context. If we read the context, it becomes clear that the issue here is not whether or not you own things, but whether or not they own you. The early church was supported by many people, some of them fairly wealthy... but, rather than seeing wealth as an end, they saw the flourishing of the church as an end, and wealth as one possible means.

Any time a contradiction depends on taking something Christ said completely literally, you want to stop and think about the *message*, because the man was famous for talking in stories, parables, riddles, and the like. I wouldn't be half surprised if He'd somehow managed to study Zen before starting His ministry.

But what do beattitudes say

Luke 6
20  And he lifted up his eyes on his disciples, and said: "Blessed are you poor, for yours is the kingdom of God. 

 24  "But woe to you that are rich, for you have received your consolation. 

Clearly wealth has no place in the kingdom of God. It appears in the old testament wealth was a blessing. The reward for being righteous was to be wealthy. But in most Jesus teachings he has always been against wealth.

 

Look at this other error

Mathew 22
 35  And one of them, a lawyer, asked him a question, to test him. 
 36  "Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law?" 
 37  And he said to him, "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind. 


Luke 10
25  And behold, a lawyer stood up to put him to the test, saying, "Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?" 
 26  He said to him, "What is written in the law? How do you read?" 
 27  And he answered, "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your strength, and with all your mind; and your neighbor as yourself." 
 28  And he said to him, "You have answered right; do this, and you will live."

 

In Mathew it is Jesus who answered the question while in Luke it was the lawyer

You can't talk about context here.
 
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LightBearer

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Originally posted by spiritualscientist
But what do beattitudes say

Luke 6
20 And he lifted up his eyes on his disciples, and said: "Blessed are you poor, for yours is the kingdom of God.

24 "But woe to you that are rich, for you have received your consolation.

Clearly wealth has no place in the kingdom of God. It appears in the old testament wealth was a blessing. The reward for being righteous was to be wealthy. But in most Jesus teachings he has always been against wealth.



JESUS opened his Sermon on the Mount with a series of nine statements that describe persons who are truly happy. In the first of these “happinesses,” Jesus said: “Happy are those conscious of their spiritual need, since the kingdom of the heavens belongs to them.”—Matt. 5:3, NW; An American Translation.

“Those conscious of their spiritual need” are, according to the literal Greek of Matthew, persons “poor [as] to the spirit.” Luke’s parallel account reports Jesus as saying: “Happy are you poor, because yours is the kingdom of God.” (Luke 6:20) Jesus pointed out that an important reason for his coming as Messiah was “to declare good news to the poor.” (Luke 4:18) This does not indicate any special merit in being poor or that the poor automatically have God’s favor. But, primarily, those who followed Jesus and had been given the hope of sharing in the blessings of God’s kingdom were drawn from among the poor or common people. (1 Cor. 1:26-29; Jas. 2:5) Those downtrodden ones knew themselves to be poor “as to spirit” (spiritually) too. Rather than succumbing to bitterness due to external circumstances, they became “conscious of their spiritual need,” more fully aware of their dependence on God.
In contrast, Jesus declared: “But woe to you rich persons, because you are having your consolation in full.” (Luke 6:24) Material wealth often dulls consciousness of spiritual need. An example can be seen in Jesus’ words of rebuke to certain Christians at Laodicea, Asia Minor: “You say: ‘I am rich and have acquired riches and do not need anything at all,’ but you do not know [that is, are not conscious that spiritually] you are miserable and pitiable and poor and blind and naked.”—Rev. 3:17.

The reason for happiness on the part of those conscious of their spiritual need is that “the kingdom of the heavens belongs to them.” They accepted Jesus as Messiah, and this opened up opportunities for them to rule with him in God’s heavenly kingdom by Christ. (Luke 22:30; John 14:1-4) How it must have warmed the hearts of humble “commoners” to learn that they could be in line for the kingdom of God, whereas rich and highly educated persons who trusted in their wealth and viewed the common people as “accursed” were not! (John 7:49) Of course, wealthy persons could manifest the same spirit of humility and a spiritual appreciation that would gain happiness for them as well.—1 Tim. 6:17-19; Jas. 1:9, 10.

Originally posted by spiritualscientist
Look at this other error

Mathew 22
35 And one of them, a lawyer, asked him a question, to test him.
36 "Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law?"
37 And he said to him, "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind.

Luke 10
25 And behold, a lawyer stood up to put him to the test, saying, "Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?" 26
He said to him, "What is written in the law? How do you read?"
27 And he answered, "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your strength, and with all your mind; and your neighbor as yourself."
28 And he said to him, "You have answered right; do this, and you will live."

In Mathew it is Jesus who answered the question while in Luke it was the lawyer

You can't talk about context here.


This one is simply two separate incidents involving to separate individuals versed in the Law.

The setting, recorded at Luke 10:25-29, shows that the illustration was given in reply to the question, “Who really is my neighbor?” and takes place months before the account in Matthew which happened 3 days before Jesus death while teaching in the temple.
 
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LightBearer

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Mark, like Matthew (Mt 19:3-9), recorded Jesus’ statements to the Pharisees regarding divorce and quoted Christ as saying: “Whoever divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery against her, and if ever a woman, after divorcing her husband, marries another, she commits adultery.” (Mr 10:11, 12) A similar statement is made at Luke 16:18, which reads: “Everyone that divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery, and he that marries a woman divorced from a husband commits adultery.” Taken alone, these verses seem to forbid all divorce by Christ’s followers, or at least to indicate that a divorced individual would not be entitled to remarry except after the death of the divorced marriage partner. However, Jesus’ words as recorded by Mark and Luke must be understood in the light of the more complete statement recorded by Matthew. He includes the phrase “except on the ground of fornication” (Mt 19:9; see also Mt 5:32), showing that what Mark and Luke wrote in quoting Jesus on divorce applies if the ground for procuring the divorce is anything other than “fornication” (por·nei'a) committed by the unfaithful marriage partner.
 
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Soul_Searcher

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You Guys! :scratch: I have to ask SpiritualScientist and Budoka (and others), is your listing the contractions mean the whole is invalid because of these 'errors?' LightBearer and Smaller (and others), are you arguing that there are no contradictions because you believe the Bible is inerrant and therefore cannot contain contradictions if it is to be believed? Is anyone of the opinion that the Bible, especially the Gospels, contains honest accounts of the Jesus story, but simply written by four different men with four different viewpoints? This would seem to make the most sense, as there are obvious contradictions, but the stories that overlap from Gospel to Gospel are basically the same.

Take for example, Jesus chasing the moneychangers out of the temple. John puts this event at the beginning of Jesus' ministry, but the others have it at the end as Jesus enters Jerusalem for the last time. Which is right? Does it matter? Not really; one has to first believe that Jesus existed and the accounts are accurate to the best of each scribes' abilities.

For a real contradiction, try Galations 1:15-20:

But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace, To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood. Neither went I up to Jerusalem to them which were apostles before me; but I went into Arabia, and returned again unto Damascus. Then after three years I went up to Jerusalem to see Peter, and abode with him fifteen days. But other of the apostles saw I none, save James the Lord's brother. Now the things which I write unto you, behold, before God, I LIE NOT.

and Acts 9:19-30

And when he had received meat, he was strengthened. Then was Saul certain days with the disciples which were at Damascus. And straightway he preached Christ in the synagogues, that he is the Son of God. But all that heard him were amazed, and said; Is not this he that destroyed them which called on this name in Jerusalem, and came hither for that intent, that he might bring them bound unto the chief priests? But Saul increased the more in strength, and confounded the Jews which dwelt at Damascus, proving that this is very Christ. And after that many days were fulfilled, the Jews took counsel to kill him: But their laying await was known of Saul. And they watched the gates day and night to kill him. Then the disciples took him by night, and let him down by the wall in a basket. And when Saul was come to Jerusalem, he assayed to join himself to the disciples: but they were all afraid of him, and believed not that he was a disciple. But Barnabas took him, and brought him to the apostles, and declared unto them how he had seen the Lord in the way, and that he had spoken to him, and how he had preached boldly at Damascus in the name of Jesus. And he was with them coming in and going out at Jerusalem. And he spake boldly in the name of the Lord Jesus, and disputed against the Grecians, but they went about to slay him. Which when the brethren knew, they brought him down to Caesarea, and sent him forth to Tarsus.

Now THAT is a contradiction, two conflicting stories, one written in the first person, one supposedly written by Paul's friend and physician Luke. Those who believe the Bible is all God breathed through the Holy Spirit seem able to look past this. Those looking for contradictions love this one, yet it doesn't prove anything except somebody got it wrong (my guess is Luke).

The whole contradiction debate (and the 'Proof' debate) miss the whole point of the Gospels, which is the message of Jesus.
 
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budoka

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gunnystg: "The only contradiction concerning the Bible are those that live a life contradictory to what it states."

... and how are we supposed to know what the Bible states if it can't agree with itself? In the case of an instruction, such as divorce, a clear commandment is given - twice - don't, ever. Then a third version contradicts the other two.

How is a more detailed version automatically more valid than two shorter versions? Surely that's no more valid than saying that Matthew is outnumbered by Mark and Luke? Plus you are admitting that parts of the Bible are incomplete and therefore misleading - how much else of the Bible can be questioned?

Soul_Searcher: "is your listing the contractions mean the whole is invalid because of these 'errors?'"

I can accept the odd date being out by a year or two, or disagreements about names of minor players, but when the Bible gives two contradictory commandments it brings the validity of the whole into question, yes.

Why would God allow the Bible to be so imperfect?

 
 
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