Withholding from the poor - grave sin?

Veritas · Feb 16, 2006

Shelb5 said:
Then buy the beggar lunch if you feel he will buy alcohol.

Actually, I kind of did this once. I had been at a business meeting that had a catered lunch. We got these cool boxes with sandwiches, pasta salad, chips, cookies and soda pop. There was one left over and I nabbed it. After I left the meeting I drove to this area near the freeway where I knew a guy always stood holding a sign near the stop light. When I got there I opened my window and handed him the box and told him there was all kinds of good food in there for him. He just looked at me rather strangely and said, "thanks". He turned around and put the box inside his backpack and continued to stand there holding his sign. He just wasn't too interesting in eating I guess. I wondered later on if he wouldn't just trade the food for something else. I'll never know in this life, but I hope he did eat the food.

vrunca · Feb 16, 2006

Veritas said:
So if I give a girl begging on the street some money knowing she's going to use it to pay for an abortion, I should feel good about that? Sorry, my conscience bothers me more to freely give money to those who would do ill from it than to not give at all. I am still helping someone by giving to a charity that will actually provide for their needs. I guess you and I define "love" differently.

How do you know a girl begging is begging for money for an abortion? Or a begger is begging for money for booze or drugs? And your right, working in a homeless shelter is good, or a soup kitchen. But if it bothers you to give money, you could also give a meal or some clothing or blankets. There are many different ways to give...my problem is that I still inevetably run into the money situation being a problem whenever I think of a way I can help.

ShannonMcCatholic · Feb 16, 2006

I think, too, that we are seriously missing who the poor are in our society if we only think of the bums, or the guys panhandling at the stoplight....the are merely monetarily poor--- the poorest of the poor are those who are so broken that they can neither give love or be loved--and they don't need money.

I find this whole discussion a little presumptuous... pray- above all- seek what Our Lord wants you to do and do THAT- with a generous and selfless love.

If that means workung for your parish--do that. If it means homeschooling--do that. If that means working at a shelter--do that. We are NOT all called to the same life, nor have the same charisms---NOT all people have the charism of evangelical poverty...we are all called to be poor in spirit, but thereality is the wealth can also be a valuable asset in the war for souls...Mel Gibson springs readily to mind.

If an individual wants to give away all that they have because they feel called by Jesus to do so--that's awesome--but I find it errant to purport that that is the 'right' or 'best' way.

BrotherKnight · Feb 17, 2006

ShannonMcCatholic said:
I think, too, that we are seriously missing who the poor are in our society if we only think of the bums, or the guys panhandling at the stoplight....the are merely monetarily poor--- the poorest of the poor are those who are so broken that they can neither give love or be loved--and they don't need money.

I find this whole discussion a little presumptuous... pray- above all- seek what Our Lord wants you to do and do THAT- with a generous and selfless love.

If that means workung for your parish--do that. If it means homeschooling--do that. If that means working at a shelter--do that. We are NOT all called to the same life, nor have the same charisms---NOT all people have the charism of evangelical poverty...we are all called to be poor in spirit, but thereality is the wealth can also be a valuable asset in the war for souls...Mel Gibson springs readily to mind.

If an individual wants to give away all that they have because they feel called by Jesus to do so--that's awesome--but I find it errant to purport that that is the 'right' or 'best' way.

This thread (as shown by the quotes from Scripture and the Catechism) was mainly directed at the materially poor. You should know me by now to know that I do not view them exclusively in this light, (think - Purgatory threads like this one among many: http://www.christianforums.com/t2253832-prayers-for-the-holy-souls-in-purgatory.html )

:wave:

ShannonMcCatholic · Feb 17, 2006

BrotherKnight said:
This thread (as shown by the quotes from Scripture and the Catechism) was mainly directed at the materially poor. You should know me by now to know that I do not view them exclusively in this light, (think - Purgatory threads like this one among many: http://www.christianforums.com/t2253832-prayers-for-the-holy-souls-in-purgatory.html )

Of course I may-- but not all who are reading this thread may... and I think that the prevailing attitude could be a stumbling block--because not everyone is at the same place, nor called to the same thing, nor called to serve in the same capacity. There is a fine line, in my experience (where I continue to muddke it all up), between spurring people on to greater holiness and alienating them thinking they can never attain the ideal set forth.

BrotherKnight · Feb 17, 2006

ShannonMcCatholic said:
Of course I may-- but not all who are reading this thread may... and I think that the prevailing attitude could be a stumbling block--because not everyone is at the same place, nor called to the same thing, nor called to serve in the same capacity. There is a fine line, in my experience (where I continue to muddke it all up), between spurring people on to greater holiness and alienating them thinking they can never attain the ideal set forth.

You're right. Online it is hard to keep safe to that line, but if I have to err one direction or the other, I, personally, would tend to set the goal on a hard to reach, saintly level, than to set it low enough just to keep people thinking they are doing well just where they are.

It takes a lot of finese to cater to a whole forum of people who are all different, that's why I prefer to just speak from three main sources - Scripture, Catechism, and the saints.

"...fear and trembling..."

graysparrow · Feb 17, 2006

Let's not confuse principle with prudence.

I don't think we should give money to everybody who begs for us if there are better alternatives, and there are. In Romania I never gave money to kids who begged, broke my heart but did not, I bought food and made a custom of carrying a packet of biscuits just for that.

There are simple ways of helping people, simple and effective, like donating money to a trusted charity, like being a volunteer or whatever.

Remember that Jesus is not going to demand you anything you can't do, gather the help of people, pray, but remember... that God is present when your brother suffers.

So the principle is to help as much as we can, fulfiling our obligations to our family, etc, but as to how to help that's something not everybody is good at. Like not everybody is good at painting, but, know something? many saints would have done anything without the help and prayers from donors, many of them quite annonymous...

but in heaven

and that's a big but.

BrotherKnight · Feb 17, 2006

graysparrow said:
Let's not confuse principle with prudence.

I don't think we should give money to everybody who begs for us if there are better alternatives, and there are. In Romania I never gave money to kids who begged, broke my heart but did not, I bought food and made a custom of carrying a packet of biscuits just for that.

There are simple ways of helping people, simple and effective, like donating money to a trusted charity, like being a volunteer or whatever.

Remember that Jesus is not going to demand you anything you can't do, gather the help of people, pray, but remember... that God is present when your brother suffers.

So the principle is to help as much as we can, fulfiling our obligations to our family, etc, but as to how to help that's something not everybody is good at. Like not everybody is good at painting, but, know something? many saints would have done anything without the help and prayers from donors, many of them quite annonymous...

but in heaven

and that's a big but.

This is what I have been saying, (the part in red.)

*see posts 14 & 23.

Ave Maria · Feb 17, 2006

Miss Shelby said:
Whether they are true or false beggars is of no consequence, either way they are in need of unconditional love in their life, since probably the reason they're forced to beg or are resort to scam is because they've never had it. Does it mean you should dole out cash to everyone on the street? No. But, if you're really concerned about it just ask the Lord to help you cultivate your ability to share you time talent and treasure. It doesn't mean you give of yourself until there's no more to give, just that you hear the Lord when he asks you to do it.

A friend of mine lives out in the country in a private, oh I don't know what you'd call it, community where the rich people live on the lake on one side (they have the cool summer houses and are only there for the summer)--and the people of more meager means live on the river side. The river side, the people live there, they have no vacation home, it is their home. My friend lives on the river, and there was a man down the road who was dirty and stinky, no one talked to him, lived in a dilapidated house on the riv, and she felt that the Lord wanted her to reach out to him. So once per week she invited him over to dinner to share with her and her family. That went on for two years, and I think the guy eventually moved, but she just spent time with him and didn't treat him like a leper. Could be something that simple.

Michelle

That is very touching Michelle. Thank you for posting that.

I don't know much but I do know that this life is all about Love. God is Love.

BrotherKnight · Jan 26, 2007

It's been almost a year, and I felt compelled to re-surface this...so...bump.

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Withholding from the poor - grave sin?

Veritas

1 Lord, 1 Faith, 1 Baptism

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vrunca

STRESSED spelled backwards is DESSERTS

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ShannonMcCatholic

I swallowed a bug

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BrotherKnight

Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with thee.

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ShannonMcCatholic

I swallowed a bug

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BrotherKnight

Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with thee.

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graysparrow

My life is for the kids who have it rough

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BrotherKnight

Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with thee.

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Ave Maria

Ave Maria Gratia Plena

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BrotherKnight

Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with thee.

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