NICE GUYS - Revisited

Status
Not open for further replies.

12345678and9

Regular Member
Dec 21, 2005
614
22
✟8,361.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
What gave you the idea I want a "bad" boy? Do you guys really think you can only be one or the other?

Bad boys mainly focus on themselves, nice guys focus on others. So if their is a middle ground then that guy would not care either way. It seems you are asking a guy to be kind with an edge? I could be wrong and probably am, but I just do not see the fine line you are speaking of.
There are men who see women as a dime a dozen and others who see them as a dozen roses.

Remember men do two things wrong. Everything we say and everything we do.^_^
 
Upvote 0

Tamara224

Well-Known Member
Jan 13, 2006
13,285
2,396
Wyoming
✟40,734.00
Faith
Charismatic
Marital Status
Married
Bad boys mainly focus on themselves, nice guys focus on others. So if their is a middle ground then that guy would not care either way. It seems you are asking a guy to be kind with an edge? I could be wrong and probably am, but I just do not see the fine line you are speaking of.
There are men who see women as a dime a dozen and others who see them as a dozen roses.

Remember men do two things wrong. Everything we say and everything we do.^_^


Well, try reading what I already said in this thread about "nice" vs. "good"... it will help you understand what I mean.

And, I don't want to be seen as "a dime a dozen" or as "a dozen roses". I'm neither. I want to be seen as a rational, unique human being, thankyaverymuch.:wave:
 
Upvote 0

12345678and9

Regular Member
Dec 21, 2005
614
22
✟8,361.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Read this. Read it VERY well, and then pray for understanding.


Title: NICE GUYS REALLY DO FINISH LAST

Throughout history a well documented gripe has been that nice guys finish last. In our observation of reality TV dating shows (an excellent way to understand the sicker side of dating), we have found that the first guys “voted off” are “nice guys”. For centuries “nice guys” have been saying, “I JUST NEED TO TREAT HER LIKE CRAP AND MAYBE THEN SHE’LL LIKE ME”. While we completely understand why a man might resort to this throwing-in-of-the-towel, it is not an entirely correct behaviour modification. So before we make a bad situation worse, let’s INVESTIGATE the following hypothesis: “she doesn’t dislike you because you’re nice, she dislikes you because you’re too transparent”.

The problem with the nice guy isn’t that he is too nice; it’s that he’s too fast in giving up his emotions and his heart. For men to have emotions is okay and even normal, but to readily express them is a more feminine trait. Whether this comes from social programming or divine design, it is now status quo. Because of this, women tend to set the emotional tone and rate of emotional disclosure in relationships. If the man is more emotional than the woman, she feels off balance. It seems like overkill because she isn’t that emotional yet. When the nice guy takes over the emotional speed control, he can seem rather girly.

In contrast, the “bad boy” appears attractive to the woman because he doesn’t go too fast emotionally, he isn’t transparent, and thus he is more manly in her eyes. He never initiates the “define the relationship” conversation early on in the relationship (or ever, probably) because he’s not looking for commitment. And besides, it’s painfully obvious that she digs him and wants him to commit, because he’s allowed her [not convinced her] to fall madly, gushingly in love with him by not drowning her in sentiment. Note that we are not saying that the bad boy is a good thing, only that early on in the relationship he seems to understand what a woman needs. However as the relationship progresses, the bad boy has his own set of “issues” to deal with. What we will attempt to explore HERE is how to blend the good characteristics of the bad boy with the good characteristics of the nice guy to make a Marriable man. The key is to be more of a bad boy early on and a nice guy as the relationship progresses and the female is ready for more emotion from the male.

One event that is never easy is the “three little words” scenario. In this scenario the male senses the female’s level of involvement with him and keeps pace with her. For example, when he is certain that she is dying to say “I love you”, then and only then does he first say “I love you” so that he may take the lead at the appropriate time. If he were to say “I love you” too soon, before she was ready, then he would risk appearing like the “nice guy”, too emotionally involved too soon. As she moves the emotional meter further and further along the continuum, the conscientious male monitors her levels and performs the delicate dance that allows him to always be leading her emotionally yet only to the extent that she is already there. The big double standard for guys to accept is this:

Guy says “I love you” before girl is ready = turnoff
Girl says “I love you” before guy is ready = still in the game

Guys, you can rescue your almost-loved-one with this response: NEVER say it back if she’s the fist one to say it. If you think you’re never going to feel it, you need to use this opportunity to let her know. But if you do love her, somewhere along the line you missed the signs of her love. You’ll need to recreate the event so you can say it “first”, showing her you are able to read and lead her emotionally. Things will be awkward, but be patient. Cover your tracks with “We’ve got something special here, let’s keep it going”, and regroup.

She’ll most likely be crushed or at the very least embarrassed with your nonresponse, but she’ll never have to wonder if you just said it because she said it. Plan a recovery date and unleash the three words of mass destruction.

You need to understand the important fact that the “bad” in the “bad boy” isn’t what really ultimately attracts the female; the male in the bad boy is what attracts her. The bad boy lacks overly female characteristics, so early on he is an easier place for the female psyche to find what she craves in a man – maleness. The nice guy’s maleness might be hidden behind his “feminine side” and therefore harder for the female to spot. With a few adjustments to communication and presentation, however, the nice guy can learn to release the varying aspects of his personality at appropriate times, thus intriguing the female more deeply.



Side topic: THE INITIAL ATTRACTION OF THE BAD BOY

The bad boy that girls squirm over typically seems to have a well-defined personality. He has a style all his own. He has a suave confidence that might almost look like arrogance to some, but at least he knows who he is and what he wants. He’s a man’s man. Firm, silent, confident. He doesn’t smile a lot like a schoolgirl. He doesn’t get overly excited or giddy. He doesn’t have a bunch of girlfriends who consider him just ‘one of the girls’. He has the typically male characteristics that draw the attention of the female. When he picks her up for a date, he isn’t standing at attention like a love-struck schoolboy; he is calm and casual, in control. If he offers flowers, they look almost like an afterthought, not a bouquet he spent hours searching for. His understated actions make the female think perhaps he’s had so much experience dating that it isn’t anything new...and that must mean a lot of girls like him...and therefore he must be quite a catch. Follow the female logic?

Girls yearn for the bad boy because he seems to know more than he is letting on. He doesn’t gush over her. He clearly likes her, but he’s holding something back, and that is intriguing. He isn’t afraid to ask her out or to take her hand or to lead the way. In her estimation he is a real man, and what’s most important is that he makes her fell like a real woman. Why? Because he has no female characteristics that compete with her own. Instead he seems to need her to bring the female trait to the relationship. It’s a perfect union, each filling in where the other is lacking.

[A study has confirmed that showing emotions is a female characteristic, and that is why when nice guys do overdo it, they come across as too feminine to the female. If she was a lesbian she might dig this, but the point is that she is not and she is looking for a man’s man].

“It is incorrect to make a blanket statement that women are more emotional than men, but it is correct to say that women SHOW their emotions more than men” – Anna King, Psychologist from the Vanderbilt University where the study was done.

Feminine gender roles TRADITIONALLY include such attributes as being nurturing, affectionate, warm, and caring, while masculine characteristics are generally the opposite: being aggressive, powerful, and assertive
.




WHY NICE GUYS FINISH LAST ON A DATE

Now let’s have a look at the “nice guy”. This is the guy who is all about the girl. He listens intently, he responds appropriately, he talks of his heart and his feelings just as he’s been told that girls like. He is transparent and giving of his emotions and his thoughts. He wants to create a bond with the girl that is similar to one she might have with her best friend. He caters to her every need; he even anticipates them. And these things aren’t bad in themselves, but when it begins to appear that he lives for the attention of the female, she starts to wonder. “So early in the relationship and he already seems to think I hung the moon. He obviously doesn’t know me,” she thinks to herself. “Am I his last and only option?” His premature and inaccurate estimate of her perfection leaves her suspicious. And when he makes it very clear early on that he adores her, even loves her, the jig is up. The girl can no longer handle the overly emotional and emotive male who seems to be responding like she longs to respond in a healthy relationship. Essentially he takes HER role on himself and rides it like a weary horse. This leaves the girl feeling anything but feminine. Attention men! Women want to feel feminine, and the quickest way to help them feel feminine is to be masculine.



THE BAD BOY VERSUS THE NICE GUY ON A DATE

Nice Guy Extremes: Overly feminine. Talkative too early. More emotional than her. Too loving, too soon. Overly interested. Nervous. Overly emotional.


Bad Boy Extremes: Overly masculine. Silent. Cocky. Checking out the waitress. Disinterested. Unimpressed. Overly physical.



BAD BOYS COME UNSTUCK EVENTUALLY!

[Nice guys are not the only one who can lose women due to ‘emotions’.] Later on, if the bad boy were to grow with his mate emotionally, he might find a healthier relationship. Many women beg for their men to be more emotional. At that point, emotions are a good thing and the bad boy needs to learn to give a little. [If he does not, then she could easily dump him]. Both [the bad boy and the nice guy] should move toward a position of BALANCE, understanding the needs of the female and HIS role as a male.

What bad boys (and girls) have learned is that the bad boy extremes win out over the nice guy extremes every time. While the nice guy extremes are less harmful, most women would rather have the bad boy. Any of you ladies who might have been reading this and saying “Oh, I’d take the nice guy over the bad boy any day,” consider this: Are you looking for a man or a lap dog? Seriously, if you want a guy who is at your beck and call, aren’t you essentially looking for a loyal follower? One who will cater to all your needs? In this kind of position, the female is bound to lead an unbalanced relationship that will turn a nice guy into a quietly ANGRY guy inside. Ahh, bliss.



NOW FOR THE GRAND FINALE: STEPS TOWARD NEVER HEARING AGAIN, “You’re a Nice Guy, But...”

If you, the male of the relationship, have ever said something like, “How come you act more like a man than a girl?” then you’ve just diagnosed yourself as the nice guy. So what do you do now? How do you make sure your next dating adventure doesn’t end in friendship alone? Here are SOME steps to help you become less of a nice guy and more of a guy she wants:

1. Don’t tell her you love her too early on. Make sure she is dying to hear you say it before you ever do.

2. Don’t get too far ahead of her emotionally. Women love a guy who knows how to lead. Guys should define the relationship. When the time comes, say “I love you” first, and keep the relationship on track, but part of this is knowing your timing. Get too far ahead of her emotionally and you lose.

3. Don’t talk more than she does. Sure, girls love a guy who talks with her, but she also likes to be heard, so don’t try to compete with her in the area of talking. Always lag a bit behind to keep her guessing.

4. HAVE A LIFE. Guys who suddenly make the girl their entire life are boring. Girls want to see you with your friends, playing sports, working on cars, whatever – just have a life so she doesn’t feel like she has to support you emotionally. That’s your job for her, not hers for you, early on in the relationship. (Note: as the relationship progresses toward and into marriage, the relationship grows and matures, and all of these things change. But you’re making a mistake if you take the relationship there too quickly. That only makes you just another nice guy. We are talking about getting you Marriable, and this puts you in a better position.)




BOTTOMLINE

In review, nice guys are desperate to share too much too soon, and bad boys are desperate to bury their softer side as flawed weakness. Meanwhile, back on the Estrogen Ranch, girls who date bad boys are desperate to believe they can change them, and girls who date nice guys are soon freaked out when the niceys share too much too soon. Reversing these habits and patterns in your dating life will not only increase your Marriability but also help you choose more Marriable people to date.

Sincerely,


Hayley and Michael DiMarco, authors of Marriable – Taking the desperate out of dating.



(The DiMarco's are a Christian couple who met online and NEVER kissed or had sexual intimacy until AFTER they were married)

I have known that:D

If a guy is checking out the waitress while on a date with YOU---that guy will never change. Women want the mystery of the bad boy, but marry the nice guy who will care and provide for her and her children.
 
Upvote 0

12345678and9

Regular Member
Dec 21, 2005
614
22
✟8,361.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
For a DETAILED answer to that question, read this book:

Holding Hands, Holding Hearts: Recovering a Biblical View of Christian Dating (Paperback)
by Richard D. Phillips, Sharon L. Phillips (Married Christian couple)

link:



And NO, I CANNOT be bothered to copy-type the relevant pages for you. You seek knowledge, you do your homework yourself.

:tutu:

I am happily married--I am trying to help single guys--don't need to do any homework
 
Upvote 0

Tamara224

Well-Known Member
Jan 13, 2006
13,285
2,396
Wyoming
✟40,734.00
Faith
Charismatic
Marital Status
Married
I have known that:D

If a guy is checking out the waitress while on a date with YOU---that guy will never change. Women want the mystery of the bad boy, but marry the nice guy who will care and provide for her and her children.


Sorry, I find it laughable that you think you can tell women what we "really want" while blithely ignoring what we say we want. Maybe therein lies the problem for the "nice guys"... they think they already know what we want and do not care to take the time to find out from the source.
 
Upvote 0

Gardener101

Well-Known Member
Nov 26, 2006
5,447
473
Visit site
✟23,034.00
Faith
Pentecostal
Marital Status
Private
Sorry, I find it laughable that you think you can tell women what we "really want" while blithely ignoring what we say we want. Maybe therein lies the problem for the "nice guys"... they think they already know what we want and do not care to take the time to find out from the source.

Absolutely!
 
Upvote 0

12345678and9

Regular Member
Dec 21, 2005
614
22
✟8,361.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Sorry, I find it laughable that you think you can tell women what we "really want" while blithely ignoring what we say we want. Maybe therein lies the problem for the "nice guys"... they think they already know what we want and do not care to take the time to find out from the source.

You are exactly right...we think we know what you want and do not truly listen to what you need. That takes time to develope and yes it is a comprehension "thing" for men. The only thing I suggest is do not put a guy down for trying to do something for you he thinks you need. That pushes him away and then he will not try to listen to the "source".
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

12345678and9

Regular Member
Dec 21, 2005
614
22
✟8,361.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Absolutely! It is showing isn't it? It is showing that their unwillingness to listen, comprehend and learn is irritating me, especially when married guys come here to ask silly questions that are of no use to any of us on this forum.


Sorry I was irritating you. I know that women want men to listen, truly listen to what they care about. When you spend time and time again doing this:doh: :doh: :doh: and then try to absorb what she told you, it just makes us go blank:scratch: It is like a cartoon and all of the signs are above, below, and all around blinking and flashing telling us, "HEY!! It is right here!!" It just takes men a long time to finally switch from focusing on their needs and what they think their woman needs and truly find the key that unlocks the door they have been pointing out to them all along.
 
Upvote 0

12345678and9

Regular Member
Dec 21, 2005
614
22
✟8,361.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Love Somewhat Understood (Short Version)

The energy of love and it’s defiance to be
understood is what makes it so utterly astounding.
Thoughts from the human mind cause emotions
to intermix, contradict, and repel one
another. They cause pain, fear, confusion,
joy and all the fluctuations in between.
The mind can make you irrational, unrealistic,
and foolish.

It can bring sorrow when there is none,
doubt with no issue, and weakness without
the loss of strength. It can bend and mold
in unhealthy ways, and make misery where
it has no company. The mind is as logical
as it is illogical, bound as it is free,
and ingenuously stupid. The mind is the
most amazing and revolting part of our human
anatomy.

The heart on the other hand, makes you
physically feel true emotions abound,
transcend, and it can mesmerize you.
Does the mind let the heart take over
in matters of love?
Why is it felt in our chest, in the
deepest part of it? It seems as though
the greatest decisions come from the heart,
it seems to fuel the conscious, feed the
soul, and make love outstanding.

To fathom the deepness of the habitual
traits of true love and constantly finding
happiness and sensual bliss with one person
for multitudes of years is astounding.
To walk each path of life together no matter
which way the fork leads and to form a bond
so strong that death could not break it,
reveals that love is unconquerable.
No human love is perfect, if it were it would
cease to exist, but what are these
connections, these ties that bind us to a
person and conforms us to them until our
last word is spent?

No love is simple, but more complex at
times than answers to the universe. It
causes a person to perform the most idiotic
and most amazing performances the world
has ever seen. Love has no boundaries,
no limit, and has endless possibilities.
Love can take and give life without question.
It is by far the most misunderstood, most
necessary, and strangest of all emotions
we know. Love is the brightest light and
the darkest chasm a human must endure.

You would count every star for just a glance.
You would count every blade of grass for
just one touch. You would catch every
raindrop to keep them dry and warm.
That is what true love is. It is so
difficult to contain it. If someone tells
you that you are a fool in love, take that
as a compliment. It may mean they envy
you and are jealous of the feelings you
have discovered. It is a blessing and a
curse. It is a double-edged sword that cuts
you no matter which way you handle it.

Be thankful that you have them and do not
forget that. If you do not have love,
do not fret, it will be at your doorstep
soon enough. Apologize when you are wrong
and do not be selfish when you are right.
You cannot control it. Just hold on for the
ride and see where it takes you.

It truly is the greatest gift bestowed upon
human beings. We constantly take it for
granted and do not always use it for what
it was intended. People tend to give up on
love after their heart has been torn out and
kicked around. They adamantly defy it, do
not want it, but then, someone opens the
locked door and renews their faith in it.

Love is cleverly deceptive, it can be
wonderful and horrible within the span of
one minute. It causes you to let your guard
down making you do, try, and say things you
never would have before. Love costs nothing,
maybe we should snatch up and use as much as
we can while we still draw breath in this life.


(For the full version see Jesus)
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

sherri

Well-Known Member
Mar 20, 2004
2,389
170
✟10,937.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
This is utter rubbish. You are insinuating that my objective in posting these threads is 'male bashing' yet it was to help men...and thankfully I have had enough PMs from men it is actually helping.

I wasn't insuating that it was your objective to bash males by posting those links. Oh, suprise, suprise, you're putting words in my mouth again.

You don't realise it, but you are coming off really bad with the way you continue to miscontrue what I write. Not only do you come across as confrontational, but also unable to grasp basic ideas etc.

Rofl. You can't defend yourself by answering my points so you accuse me of being unable to 'grasp basic ideas'. Get a grip. And me confrontational? Actually I'm just stating my opinions and they happen to contradict yours. If you want confrontational how about you open your eyes are little wider then they obviously are and take a closer look at your own posts.
 
Upvote 0

Gardener101

Well-Known Member
Nov 26, 2006
5,447
473
Visit site
✟23,034.00
Faith
Pentecostal
Marital Status
Private
I wasn't insuating that it was your objective to bash males by posting those links. Oh, suprise, suprise, you're putting words in my mouth again.



Rofl. You can't defend yourself by answering my points so you accuse me of being unable to 'grasp basic ideas'. Get a grip. And me confrontational? Actually I'm just stating my opinions and they happen to contradict yours. If you want confrontational how about you open your eyes are little wider then they obviously are and take a closer look at your own posts.
http://www.christianforums.com/t4667954-how-we-as-family-should-be-acting.html
 
Upvote 0

Gardener101

Well-Known Member
Nov 26, 2006
5,447
473
Visit site
✟23,034.00
Faith
Pentecostal
Marital Status
Private
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Gardener101

Well-Known Member
Nov 26, 2006
5,447
473
Visit site
✟23,034.00
Faith
Pentecostal
Marital Status
Private
Oh look, how sweet. Maybe you should read that link first and act on it before so carefully directing others to it. I see, one standard for you and a different one for everyone else.
Sherri,

Please stop following me around. I no longer wish to continue this discussion with you in either this thread or any similar to it in content or topic. Thank you.


Gardener101
 
Upvote 0
Status
Not open for further replies.