Catholics who are not Christian

To be Catholic is to be Christian and there are no exceptions to this reality.
Your friend simply asserted a philosophical point using "Christianity" as a verb, is if 'Christian" is what we do, but in reality it is more than that. Christian is what we are. You should bring it up to him again this way, and I bet you would have an edifying conversation on the topic.

It's amazing, though, how people learn to walk in God's footsteps by observing others that do. That's how it was for me. I've been Catholic all my life, but it wasn't until I met one of my Protestant friends in my 2nd year of college that I began to observe my faith more and lead a Christian lifestyle, and this was mostly because he did. He got me into reading the Bible, he got me into going to church again weekly (I went through a "phase" when I first came to college), he taught me to put my life into Christ's hands. Just goes to show how much, blurring the denomination lines, we can learn from each other.

Long story short: The best way to help other lead Christ-filled lives is to set an example. You never know who's watching you and ready to absorb your actions like a sponge.

Kasia said:

It's amazing, though, how people learn to walk in God's footsteps by observing others that do. That's how it was for me. I've been Catholic all my life, but it wasn't until I met one of my Protestant friends in my 2nd year of college that I began to observe my faith more and lead a Christian lifestyle, and this was mostly because he did. He got me into reading the Bible, he got me into going to church again weekly (I went through a "phase" when I first came to college), he taught me to put my life into Christ's hands. Just goes to show how much, blurring the denomination lines, we can learn from each other.

Long story short: The best way to help other lead Christ-filled lives is to set an example. You never know who's watching you and ready to absorb your actions like a sponge.

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Amen..Excellent post..Thanks for shareing that ..

geocajun:To be Catholic is to be Christian and there are no exceptions to this reality. [/quote said:

What I hear you saying is that everyone who is a member of the Catholic church will be in heaven. Is that correct? There are no tares in the Catholic church? Or are you using "catholic" as the in the universal sense comprising of all true believers in Christ from every tongue, tribe and nation..pax...Kim

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Great question, I'll refine another version and wait for an answer:

Does everyone who was baptized Catholic end up in Heaven sooner or later?

I am a born again, Spirit filled Catholic and of all my observations of other Christian denominations, their roots go back to the Catholic faith. Who am I to convert my Christian brother? Don't we all agree that Jesus Christ is the Son of God? Don't we all agree that God raised Him from the dead and seated Him at the right hand of the Father? I don't see what's so Protestant about that or Baptist or Anglican or whatever denomination may exist.

I must say that there comes a time in our life as Catholics that God will hold us responsible to accept the fact that He sent His only Son to die on the cross for us. For that, it makes me glad that the message of the cross is so simple. Jesus Christ died. God raised Him from the dead. I believe in my heart and therefore I confess, Jesus Christ as Lord!!! I know because of that, there is a new birth in the power of His ressurection! I know that the old man died with Him at the cross. I know I am a new creation. Gues what? I'm still Catholic! Just wasn't sure what I was to begin with.

HisKid1973 said:

What I hear you saying is that everyone who is a member of the Catholic church will be in heaven. Is that correct? There are no tares in the Catholic church? Or are you using "catholic" as the in the universal sense comprising of all true believers in Christ from every tongue, tribe and nation..pax...Kim

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Not every Christian will go to heaven. Jesus makes it clear that not everyone who calls upon the name of the Lord will be saved.
Simply being baptized, or whatever you do in your parish to become Christian is no guarantee of salvation.

Kasia said:

It's amazing, though, how people learn to walk in God's footsteps by observing others that do. That's how it was for me. I've been Catholic all my life, but it wasn't until I met one of my Protestant friends in my 2nd year of college that I began to observe my faith more and lead a Christian lifestyle, and this was mostly because he did. He got me into reading the Bible, he got me into going to church again weekly (I went through a "phase" when I first came to college), he taught me to put my life into Christ's hands. Just goes to show how much, blurring the denomination lines, we can learn from each other.

Long story short: The best way to help other lead Christ-filled lives is to set an example. You never know who's watching you and ready to absorb your actions like a sponge.

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We do need to live Christ daily and it should show in our lifestyles. This should be because we are reading the Bible, praying, fellowshipping with other Christians and allowing Christ to transform us from within.
I know a family who are Catholic and I would not even ask them anything about the Catholic religion because even though I know they go to their Catholic church and put their children in the preschool there and in catechism classes or whatever it is, their lifestyle does not at all express Christ.
I do not mean to be judgemental, but what we see when we look at a Christian should express Christ, not drinking and foul language and stuff like that.
I do not mean to say that not living a Christian lifestyle is just a Catholic problem. It is found among all groups of people who call themselves Christians as was pointed out in this thread.

Stpatterk said:

I am a born again, Spirit filled Catholic and of all my observations of other Christian denominations, their roots go back to the Catholic faith. Who am I to convert my Christian brother? Don't we all agree that Jesus Christ is the Son of God? Don't we all agree that God raised Him from the dead and seated Him at the right hand of the Father? I don't see what's so Protestant about that or Baptist or Anglican or whatever denomination may exist.

I must say that there comes a time in our life as Catholics that God will hold us responsible to accept the fact that He sent His only Son to die on the cross for us. For that, it makes me glad that the message of the cross is so simple. Jesus Christ died. God raised Him from the dead. I believe in my heart and therefore I confess, Jesus Christ as Lord!!! I know because of that, there is a new birth in the power of His ressurection! I know that the old man died with Him at the cross. I know I am a new creation. Gues what? I'm still Catholic! Just wasn't sure what I was to begin with.

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geocajun said:

Jesus makes it clear that not everyone who calls upon the name of the Lord will be saved.

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Where does Jesus make this clear?
Romans 10:9 That if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
13 For whoever calls upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Simply being baptized, or whatever you do in your parish to become Christian is no guarantee of salvation

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Now that, I agree with!

christianmomof3 said:

Where does Jesus make this clear?
Romans 10:9 That if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
13 For whoever calls upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

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Matt 7:21
"Not every one who says to me, `Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
(Emphasis mine)

Here Jesus says those who call on his name may not enter the Kingdom of Heaven, but only those who do the will of the Father.

geocajun said:

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Matt 7:21
"Not every one who says to me, `Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
(Emphasis mine)

Here Jesus says those who call on his name may not enter the Kingdom of Heaven, but only those who do the will of the Father.

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Ah, to enter into the kingdom of the heavens is not the same thing as being saved.
To call on the Lord is enough for us to be saved.
But, to enter into the kingdom of the heavens, we also need to do the will of the heavenly Father.
Entering into the kingdom of God is through regeneration as seen in John 3:3 and 5 and as seen in the verse in Romans, everyone who calls upon the name of the Lord will be saved.
13 For whoever calls upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Matt 7:21
"Not every one who says to me, `Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
The bible does not contradict itself. Both verses are correct. They just refer to different things.

christianmomof3 said:

Ah, to enter into the kingdom of the heavens is not the same thing as being saved.
To call on the Lord is enough for us to be saved.
But, to enter into the kingdom of the heavens, we also need to do the will of the heavenly Father.
Entering into the kingdom of God is through regeneration as seen in John 3:3 and 5 and as seen in the verse in Romans, everyone who calls upon the name of the Lord will be saved.
13 For whoever calls upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Matt 7:21
"Not every one who says to me, `Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
The bible does not contradict itself. Both verses are correct. They just refer to different things.

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where do saved people go if they cannot enter the kingdom of heaven?

christianmomof3 said:

Ah, to enter into the kingdom of the heavens is not the same thing as being saved.
To call on the Lord is enough for us to be saved.
But, to enter into the kingdom of the heavens, we also need to do the will of the heavenly Father.
Entering into the kingdom of God is through regeneration as seen in John 3:3 and 5 and as seen in the verse in Romans, everyone who calls upon the name of the Lord will be saved.
13 For whoever calls upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Matt 7:21
"Not every one who says to me, `Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
The bible does not contradict itself. Both verses are correct. They just refer to different things.

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Using different terminology can sometimes confuse the issues.

It sounds as if what you call entering the kingdom, Catholics call born again. And what we refer to as entering the kingdom is being saved.

We are born again at baptism and we are saved when we enter the kingdom to be with Jesus. His kingdom is already here on Earth, but it is as yet, imperfect. The perfection is in heaven.

anawim said:

Using different terminology can sometimes confuse the issues.

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That, I have found to be one of the biggest issues on this board.
Each group has it's own terminology or it's own understanding of terms that is often quite different from others and probably if we all understood each other's terminology, we would find that we agree on many more points than we realize.

geocajun said:

where do saved people go if they cannot enter the kingdom of heaven?

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Remember, He told them to depart because He never "knew" them..To know someone in a biblical sense is an intimate relationship..There are "many " out there going by the name of "christian"..that's how the wheat is able to mix with the tares...To be christian in name only gives someone identity to a group, but does not nessesarily mean they have been spiritualy reborn..We can pray something, repeat creeds or go thru programs and still not truely"know" Christ.We are known by our fruits and our love for one another..pax..k

geocajun said:

where do saved people go if they cannot enter the kingdom of heaven?

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According to the book of Revelation, our ultimate destination is to be part of the New Jerusalem. All born-again believers will be part of the New Jerusalem.
The Kingdom of the Heavens is not the same as the New Jerusalem.

christianmomof3 said:

According to the book of Revelation, our ultimate destination is to be part of the New Jerusalem. All born-again believers will be part of the New Jerusalem.
The Kingdom of the Heavens is not the same as the New Jerusalem.

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What is the distinction? I'm so confused...
The kingdom of heaven isn't heaven, but it is where heaven is king, right or wrong? How can someone be saved, but not be part of the kingdom of heaven?

HisKid1973 said:

Remember, He told them to depart because He never "knew" them..To know someone in a biblical sense is an intimate relationship..There are "many " out there going by the name of "christian"..that's how the wheat is able to mix with the tares...To be christian in name only gives someone identity to a group, but does not nessesarily mean they have been spiritualy reborn..We can pray something, repeat creeds or go thru programs and still not truely"know" Christ.We are known by our fruits and our love for one another..pax..k

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so simply 'calling on the name of God' is not sufficient?

christianmomof3 said:

To call on the Lord is enough for us to be saved.
[...]
The bible does not contradict itself. Both verses are correct.

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Christ also said that you will not gain eternal life if you do not eat His Body and Drink His Blood, or if you do not pick up your cross and follow Him, or if you are not baprized, or if you do not do good works...etc.

I wonder how a lot of Protestants would react if someone approached them and said:

You're the only Christian Protestant I've ever met, good for you!

It's like saying 'You're the only black person who isn't a hoodlum! Good for you!'

Oh. Thanks.

GratiaCorpusChristi said:

I wonder how a lot of Protestants would react if someone approached them and said:

You're the only Christian Protestant I've ever met, good for you!

It's like saying 'You're the only black person who isn't a hoodlum! Good for you!'

Oh. Thanks.

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well lets see...

GratiCorpusChristi, you're the only Christian Protestant I've ever met! Good for you!

/me ducks

I believe the difference is that when you call upon the Lord, you should be doing so with the full intention of accepting Him as your Savior. And when you accept Him as your Savior, you should be accepting that He died for your sins, you should be accepting all of His teachings, you should be accepting His Will in your life, you should be accepting the example He gave us as His followers. And part of accepting His teachings means believing in baptism, confession through a priest, recieving the Eucharist (Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity of our Lord), turning away from from the influences of the world, etc.

When Jesus says that not everyone who calls "Lord, Lord" shall enter the kingdom of Heaven and He responds to them "I do not know you", I believe this is in reference to those who believe they can merely say the words and not truly accept ALL of Him. You can't merely accept one thing and omitt the rest. You can't say that you believe He is the Savior and seperate Him from His teachings and His example. Everything He said was important and said for a reason and we need to believe in all of His teachings.

This is not to say that all who aren't Catholic aren't saved. There are so many protestants who truly seek to know the truth, who truly seek Him and His Will in their lives. There is so much that the Lord takes into consideration and He knows their hearts. I'll leave the judging who is saved and who isn't up to Him. But I believe that is the difference between the scripture posted...

13 For whoever calls upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Matt 7:21
"Not every one who says to me, `Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.



In Christ,
Bridgette