Propserity Gospel, Freemasonry, and Denials of Christian Teaching

DaveKerwin · Aug 21, 2002

Originally posted by Andrew
Dave,

didnt see your post until now.

quote:"1. Jesus :
Who was not wealthy, who's health suffered badly. If God himself didn't hold riches,"

from the start you already carry an unfamiliar spirit and are preaching another Jesus, just like Louis does. so i see little point in reinterpreting the scriptures you have presented or giving you new scripture cause you'd just interpret it with the poverty/sickly spirit mentality.

If you dont want health and material blessings from God that's your call, if you insist Jesus and his apostles were a poor and sickly that's another "Jesus" plain and simple -- any baby Christian will tell you that.

So just tell God to channel your blessings (health and prosperity) to me and Quaffie since you dont want them. thanks.

Andrew, unfamiliar spirit? Oh... you mean the truth!!! ?
I have no other Jesus than the one you claim.

You have copped out, ignored biblical text, which I DIDN'T write. God is the author, and you have rejected his words, not mine.

The health and wealth gospel is a false teaching.

Go ahead, take all the blessing I am missing out on. Take all the health, take all the wealth. Enjoy them, because the things of this world will pass. Every gold rolex ends up in a gold rolex junkyard. Enjoy it while it still shines my friend. And enjoy all the properity I am missing out on. If you want, I can sign them off to you. Just make a form and I will sign it.

Loser For Jesus · Aug 21, 2002

Originally posted by Susan
You just accused those outside of Word Faith teaching to be cultists. If you read the context around that passage about "another Jesus" you see it is referring to non-Christian cultists. 

Any Christian not accused of being a "cultist" is not being enough of a Christian.

Acts 28:22  But we want to hear what your views are, for we know that people everywhere are talking against this sect."

I'd take such an accusation as a compliment!

love in Christ,

Malcolm

DaveKerwin · Aug 21, 2002

Matthew 6: 25-34

Do Not Worry

"Therefore I tell you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat or drink; or about your body, what you will wear. Is not life more important than food, and the body more important than clothes? Look at the birds of the air; they do not sow or reap or store away in barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not much more valuable than they? Who of you by worrying can add a single hour to his life ?
"And why do you worry about clothes? See how the lilies of the field grow. They do not labor or spin. Yet I tell you that not even Solomon in all his splendor was dressed like one of these. If that is how God clothes the grass of the field, which is here today and tomorrow is thrown into the fire, will he not much more clothe you, O you of little faith? So do not worry, saying, 'What shall we eat?' or 'What shall we drink?' or 'What shall we wear?' For the pagans run after all these things, and your heavenly Father knows that you need them. But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well. Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own."

Matthew 7: 7-12

Ask, Seek, Knock

"Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. For everyone who asks receives; he who seeks finds; and to him who knocks, the door will be opened. Which of you, if his son asks for bread, will give him a stone? Or if he asks for a fish, will give him a snake? If you, then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give good gifts to those who ask him! So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets"

Deuteronomy 28

Blessings for Obedience

If you fully obey the Lord your God and carefully follow all his commands I give you today, the Lord your God will set you high above all the nations on earth. All these blessings will come upon you and accompany you if you obey the Lord your God:
You will be blessed in the city and blessed in the country. The fruit of your womb will be blessed, and the crops of your land and the young of your livestock-the calves of your herds and the lambs of your flocks. Your basket and your kneading trough will be blessed. You will be blessed when you come in and blessed when you go out.
The Lord will grant that the enemies who rise up against you will be defeated before you. They will come at you from one direction but flee from you in seven. The Lord will send a blessing on your barns and on everything you put your hand to. The Lord your God will bless you in the land he is giving you. The Lord will establish you as his holy people, as he promised you on oath, if you keep the commands of the Lord your God and walk in his ways. Then all the peoples on earth will see that you are called by the name of the Lord , and they will fear you. The Lord will grant you abundant prosperity-in the fruit of your womb, the young of your livestock and the crops of your ground-in the land he swore to your forefathers to give you.
The Lord will open the heavens, the storehouse of his bounty, to send rain on your land in season and to bless all the work of your hands. You will lend to many nations but will borrow from none. The Lord will make you the head, not the tail. If you pay attention to the commands of the Lord your God that I give you this day and carefully follow them, you will always be at the top, never at the bottom. Do not turn aside from any of the commands I give you today, to the right or to the left, following other gods and serving them.

Curses for Disobedience

However, if you do not obey the Lord your God and do not carefully follow all his commands and decrees I am giving you today, all these curses will come upon you and overtake you:
You will be cursed in the city and cursed in the country. Your basket andyour kneading trough will be cursed. The fruit of your womb will be cursed, and the crops of your land, and the calves of your herds and the lambs of your flocks. You will be cursed when you come in and cursed when you go out.
The Lord will send on you curses, confusion and rebuke in everything you put your hand to, until you are destroyed and come to sudden ruin because of the evil you have done in forsaking him. The Lord will plague you with diseases until he has destroyed you from the land you are entering to possess. The Lord will strike you with wasting disease, with fever and inflammation, with scorching heat and drought, with blight and mildew, which will plague you until you perish. The sky over your head will be bronze, the ground beneath you iron. The Lord will turn the rain of your country into dust and powder; it will come down from the skies until you are destroyed.
The Lord will cause you to be defeated before your enemies. You will come at them from one direction but flee from them in seven, and you will become a thing of horror to all the kingdoms on earth. Your carcasses will be food for all the birds of the air and the beasts of the earth, and there will be no one to frighten them away. The Lord will afflict you with the boils of Egypt and with tumors, festering sores and the itch, from which you cannot be cured. The Lord will afflict you with madness, blindness and confusion of mind. At midday you will grope about like a blind man in the dark. You will be unsuccessful in everything you do; day after day you will be oppressed and robbed, with no one to rescue you. "

(the disobedience part goes twice as long as what is posted here, I think you can see that disobedience has more consequences than obedience)

SpiritPsalmist · Aug 21, 2002

Louis: You don't NEED to be rich. God isn't a meal ticketI know that I don't need to be rich. I don't believe I ever said I did. It's in 1 Peter 5:7 that we are told "cast ALL your cares upon Him, because He cares for you". I believe I can safely assume that that means He will provide my meal if I need one and anything else that I need, whether it's financial, physical, or spiritual. Of course I've also known Him to supply things to me that I did not "need" but desired. He's always been good to me.

Louis:

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Oh..and the presentation fot he doves in Luke chapter 2 is LOONNNGG after the magi

Louis: Umm...You think the wisemen came before the 8th day?

According to the way your first statement is worded I thought you were saying that the presentation of Joseph and Mary of the doves was long after the Magi came, so that is what I was responding to. I think the Magi showed up when Jesus was around 2 yrs old.

Louis: "But scripture does not tell us it was for the rest of His life. " It was after christ left...he was still a carpender.

[/i]Louis: What's funny is it appears Christ was one too... "Mar 6:3 Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, the brother of James, and Joses, and of Juda, and Simon? and are not his sisters here with us? And they were offended at him. " as far as Joe being a carpenter his whole life..he sure was "Mat 13:55 Is not this the carpenter's son? is not his mother called Mary? and his brethren, James, and Joses, and Simon, and Judas? "[/i]

My mistake Louis, you were referring to Joseph and I was thinking Jesus.

[/i] Louis: " The guy that keeps up with the money is far different then today's use of the word treasurer. Just as the church does, they shared everything, thus one person kept the stuff, no reason for them all do. If you want to address the regular stealing, post a verse.[/i]

The verse would be John 12:6 KJV "This he said, not that he cared for the poor; but because he was a thief, and had the bag, and bare what was put therein."

STONGS CONCORDANCE:

THIEF:

1. an embezzler, pilferer

a. the name is transferred to false teachers, who do not care to instruct men, but abuse their confidence for their own gain.

HAD:

1. to have, i.e. to hold

a. to have (hold) in the hand, in the sense of wearing, to have (hold) possession of the mind (refers to alarm, agitating emotions, etc.) to hold fast keep, to have or comprise or involve, to regard or consider or hold as.

2. to have i.e. own, possess

a. external things such as pertain to property or riches or furniture or utensils or goods or food etc.

b. used of those joined to any one by the bonds of natural blood or marriage or friendship or duty or law etc, of attendance or companionship.

3. to hold one's self or find one's self so and so, to be in such or such a condition.

4. to hold one's self to a thing, to lay hold of a thing, to adherre or cling to.

a. to be closely joined 4. to hold one's self to a thing, to lay hold of a thing, to adhere or to a person or a thing.

BAG:

1. a case in which to keep mouth-pieces of wind instruments

2. a small box for other uses

a. esp. a casket, a purse to keep money in.

I concur with your definition of treasurer. I never thought it was anything different.

Louis: In John 6:5 Jesus asked Philip where they may buy bread to eat? " Read it in context. Seems they were pretty worried in mark 6. Yes, in John 6 he exclams that it is a lot of money by the statement. If you're rich 200 isn't that much. Its a drop in the bucket. It seems pretty clear to me that Christ came to give us spirutal blessings, not physical ones.

Please, show me where the word "worried" or any other word that means the same is in that scripture reference. I don't see it. A question does not constitute worry. It's merely wanting an answer.

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Loser For Jesus · Aug 21, 2002

It seems to me that this debate about "prosperity teachings" has gotten way too complicated. How about just dealing with the simple words of Jesus?

Matthew 6:24
"No one can serve two masters. Either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and Money."

(other translations have "wealth" or "mammon" in place of "money" but it doesn't really change the basic meaning)

There are two striking things about this simple verse.

Firstly, Jesus' language is strong and unambiguous. He doesn't leave us with any gray areas or loop-holes to play around with. It's a straight either/or. We cannot serve two masters - we must love one and hate the other. Jesus doesn't leave any middle ground on this issue.

Secondly, the two things are presented by Jesus as entirely incompatible with each other. You either love money and hate God, or you love God and hate money.

Think about it for a moment. That means that if you claim to love God, then you must hate money. If you don't hate money, then you don't love God. If you don't despise money, then you are not truly devoted to God. 

How do we really measure up against the standard set here by Jesus?

love in Christ,
Malcolm

SpiritPsalmist · Aug 21, 2002

Originally posted by Loser For Jesus
It seems to me that this debate about "prosperity teachings" has gotten way too complicated. How about just dealing with the simple words of Jesus?

Matthew 6:24
"No one can serve two masters. Either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and Money."

(other translations have "wealth" or "mammon" in place of "money" but it doesn't really change the basic meaning)

There are two striking things about this simple verse.

Firstly, Jesus' language is strong and unambiguous. He doesn't leave us with any gray areas or loop-holes to play around with. It's a straight either/or. We cannot serve two masters - we must love one and hate the other. Jesus doesn't leave any middle ground on this issue.

Secondly, the two things are presented by Jesus as entirely incompatible with each other. You either love money and hate God, or you love God and hate money.

Think about it for a moment. That means that if you claim to love God, then you must hate money. If you don't hate money, then you don't love God. If you don't despise money, then you are not truly devoted to God. 

How do we really measure up against the standard set here by Jesus?

love in Christ,
Malcolm

Malcolm,

You are quite right!  I agree with you 100%.  We must hate money, but we need money to get by in this world.  One can have money without loving it just as one can love money without having it.

We need money in order to pay our bills.  We need money in order to buy food.  We need money to pay our rent, our electricty, our water bill, gas in our cars, bus fare for those who don't have cars, etc, etc.

We need money in order to give to the poor (which Jesus told us to do).  We need money in order to help the church doors stay open.  We need money to do buy stamps.  We need money.

I personally, do not know anyone whom God has called to be a "John the Baptist", do you?  I do know a man, who has given up a place to live and evangilizes on the streets.  The Lord regularly supplys him a home to stay in and food and money.  But how could that happen if the people who do this for him have not money to do it with?  We need money.

So, there must be a balance between every thing that Jesus said, not just some of what He said.  We need money.  Jesus told us not to worry where the money came from because as a child of God, it would be supplied. 

Jesus told us that as we give He will give unto us.  So, tell me, how can I run from that?  The only way to keep Him from giving to me is to horde it all to myself and not obey Him in giving.  But that would be disobedience.  So, I must give it away to those who need it, but then He just gives me more!  This could be quite a dilema.

"Prosperity Gospel"!  If you know Jesus, and your walking in obedience, there is no way to avoid the blessings (whatever they may be)

Ps 23:5, 6 (KJV)  "Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of mine enemies:" (this can't be heaven cause' our enemies won't be there) "Thou anointest my head with oil; my cup runneth over.  Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life; and I will dwell in the house of the Lord for ever"

ANOINTEST:

1. to be fat, grow fat, become fat, become prosperous, anoint

a. (Qal)of prosperity

b. (Piel) 1) to make fat, anoint. 2) to find fat (of offering-acceptable). 3) to take away ashes

c. (Pual) to be made fat

d. (Hothpael) to fatten oneself (of Jehovah's sword)

OVER:

1. saturation

GOODNESS:

1. good, pleasant, agreeable

a. pleasant, agreeable (to the senses)

b. pleasant (to the higher nature)

c. good, excellent (of its kind)

d. good, rich, valuable in estimation

e. good, appropriate, becoming

f. better (comparative)

g. glad, happy, prosperous (of man's sensuous nature)

h. good understandg (of man's intellectual nature)

i. good, kind, benign 

j. good, right (ethical) n m

2. a good thing, benefit, welfare

a. welfare, prosperity, happiness

b. good things (collective)

c. good, benefit 

d. moral good n f

3. welfare, benefit, good things

a. welfare, prosperity, happiness

b. good things (collective)

c. bounty

MERCY:

1. goodness, kindness, faithfulness

2. a reproach, shame

FOLLOW:

1. to be behind, follow after, pursue, persecute, run after

a. (Qal) 1) to pursue, put to flight, chase, dog, attend closely upon. 2) to persecute, harass (fig) 3) to follow after, aim to secure (fig) 4) to run after (a bribe) (fig)

b. (Niphal) 1) to be pursued. 2) one pursued (participle)

c. (Piel) to pursue ardently, aim eagerly to secure, pursue

d. (Pual) to be pursued, be chased away

e. (hiphil) to pursue, chase

God said it, I believe it, and that settles it.

I need money to support myself.  I need extra to help support others.  I'm not there yet.  But just keep doing what the Word tells me to and someday I will be.  And there's nothing I can do to stop that except to stop doing what the Word says. 

(hear Mcully Culkin here from Home Alone)  I don't think so!

Loser For Jesus · Aug 21, 2002

Quaffer,

It's good to hear that you agree with me. I really wasn't making a point about whether or not we should have money - that's for the Lord to decide. If he wants to call me to be a "John the Baptist", fine. If he decides I have to live with money, then also fine.

The point is that we have to "hate" money, as Jesus said. That is putting money in its "proper perspective". If we get this attitude right, then whether we have money or not, God will be able to work because we are wholly devoted to Him.

love in Christ,
malcolm

Andrew · Aug 21, 2002

quote:"Go ahead, take all the blessing I am missing out on. Take all the health, take all the wealth. Enjoy them..."

Thank you very much, I really appreciate it.
Lord as Dave has believed and confessed, let it be so. If he insists on rejecting your health and wealth blessings, please channel his share to me and Quaffie. in Jesus name, AMEN!

quote: "Think about it for a moment. That means that if you claim to love God, then you must hate money."

that's ludicrous. if Christians must hate money, then they shldnt have any dollars in their bank or wallet. Suppose God tells you to donate 10,000 to a certain mission, how in the world are you going to ever be in that place to bless if you are to HATE money??? how you gonna tithe or give offerings?

The verse simply means you cant love God and money at the same time cos you'll end up neglecting God. The love of money is the root of all evil. we must hate the "love of money" not the money itself. hating money is not practical in this life. you might as well dump your paycheck in the trash like you wld a rattlesnake if you really want to believe and live up to that.

LouisBooth · Aug 21, 2002

"how many times must we show you this is bulldust!"

Until you get it.

Paul makes it clear in romans, regardless of who you are, if you're a christian, you will not have a easy life, nor a life of riches. Read romans 8:35-39. He promices ONLY that he won't leave us, not that it won't be hard.

Oh, for those of you reading along, that passage Andrew quoted was from Mat 6. Jesus is saying don't worry about your needs, they will be taken care of. He is NOT saying that you will be rich or prosperious in terms of physical or material wealth. What's really the kicker is that Christ tells you not to search after these things either, as the faith movement says you should.

Look at verse 33 BUT seek first his kingdom and his righteousness and all these things (ie your needs) will be added unto you.

Now look at the verse before that. For the pagans run after all these things, and your heavenly father knows you NEED them.

He is clearly talking about your basic needs, not a TV, nor a car, nor a fur coat. He is talking about food, clothes, shelter, the things you need to live. Not material blessings as people are talking about here. Now for the context, when did he say this? Right after talking about not longing after money. Yes right before this passage Andrew quotes Christ says this, "Do NOT sotre up for yourselves treasures on eath, where moth and rust destroy, and where tehieves beak in and steal. But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven..."

christ is telling us he is concerned with our SPIRITUAL blessings, not the physical. He will take care of your physical needs. Again, I believe my point to be proven here yet again.

LouisBooth · Aug 21, 2002

"I think the Magi showed up when Jesus was around 2 yrs old. "

Ahh..so they didn't come right away and they were poor for 2 years huh?

"My mistake Louis, you were referring to Joseph and I was thinking Jesus. "

Okay, but it seems that Christ was also one until he started his ministry...just think...Christ, God..working as a petty carpender..sweating...probalby cutting himself now and again...

"The verse would be John 12:6 KJV "This he said, not that he cared for the poor; but because he was a thief, and had the bag, and bare what was put therein." "

Umm..that in no way proves they had a lot of money??? He took some out now and again...Again, it was worth about 300 deneri..if they were rich then Judus would have been saying, ahh..so what, I can grab 400 or 500 from the "bag" and not worry about it. This shows me even more that they were poor if he is worrying about such a small mouth in terms of being rich.

"Please, show me where the word "worried" or any other word that means the same is in that scripture reference. I don't see it. A question does not constitute worry. It's merely wanting an answer."

So you believe in a dry reading of scripture? The text says, why have you forsaken me..do you think he kinda just said that in a calm monotone voice?

The passage in John 6 shows they were worried and were stating this in a worried type of way..more like..where in the heck are we gonna get enough money to buy bread for these people..jesus you're nuts!!!

Hey, LFJ, great perspective on the money thing.

Where your treasure is, your heart is there also.

Loser For Jesus · Aug 21, 2002

Originally posted by Andrew
quote: "Think about it for a moment. That means that if you claim to love God, then you must hate money."

that's ludicrous. if Christians must hate money, then they shldnt have any dollars in their bank or wallet. Suppose God tells you to donate 10,000 to a certain mission, how in the world are you going to ever be in that place to bless if you are to HATE money??? how you gonna tithe or give offerings?

The verse simply means you cant love God and money at the same time cos you'll end up neglecting God. The love of money is the root of all evil. we must hate the "love of money" not the money itself. hating money is not practical in this life. you might as well dump your paycheck in the trash like you wld a rattlesnake if you really want to believe and live up to that.

Andrew, the words of Jesus are very plain and very simple. He says if we love God then we will hate money. You can try to turn it around any way you want and come up with as many reasonable-sounding arguments as you want, but what Jesus said will still mean the same.

If you can't grasp the fact that hating money has nothing to do with whether you have it or not, then you need to get back to some pretty basic teachings of Jesus.

Here's the bottom line from Matthew 6:24. If you don't hate money, you love it. If you love money, you will hate God. If you don't despise money, then you are devoted to it. If you are devoted to money, then you will despise God.

Like I said, Jesus doesn't leave any gray areas for you to play around in. There's no way we can wriggle out of it. It doesn't get much clearer or simpler or unambiguous as this.

love in Christ,

Malcolm

Andrew · Aug 22, 2002

"Until you get it."

sorry will never understnd such satanic theology.

"He is clearly talking about your basic needs, not a TV, nor a car, nor a fur coat."

So I guess Louis you're against Christians who own cars and TVs and suits. so you live in a shack and walk to work and work for peanuts?

"Jesus is saying don't worry about your needs, they will be taken care of."

And so you admit physical blessings are included since you admit these are needs that our Father will take care of. in case you forgot, those verses i quoted was to show that physical blessings are included too. ok, you finally tripped on your own words.

hmmm just basic needs? well Abraham, Solomon, David had more than they needed. why a net breaking, boat sinking load of fishes? why 12 basketfuls leftovers? why turn all six huge pots of water into top wine? Why wld Abraham need to own hundreds of servants, cattle etc, I'm sure they cld have done with much much less. so according to Louis theology, it must have been satan who blessed them cos our stingy Father only gives basic needs.

Also, God says

Eph 3:20* Now unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us,

Lu 6:38* Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.

2 And all these blessings shall come on thee, and overtake thee,

11 And the LORD shall make thee plenteous in goods,

if you want to believe God only meets bare minimum needs, that's fine -- according to your faith be it unto you.

but you want to go furhter, that's fine too -- according to your faith be it unto you.

but if you dont want anything, that's fine too, just say "Lord, channel my share to Andrew."

thanks

Andrew · Aug 22, 2002

so loser for jesus,

guess you dont give thanks to God when you get your paycheck or get a raise, becos He gave you more stuff to hate. tell you what, send them to me. I'll give you less to hate.

and yes, the scriptures are plain and simple to those who arent super-spiritual.

"Here's the bottom line from Matthew 6:24. If you don't hate money, you love it. If you love money, you will hate God."

More like your bottome line. here's a revelation. millions of Christians love God and neither love nor hate money. they just take it as a blessing from God and use it for themselves, families and kingdom work.

Susan · Aug 22, 2002

Originally posted by Andrew:
"sorry will never understnd such satanic theology"

There you go again. We are NOT Satanic, nor are we preaching a false gospel. Please stop with these ad hominem attacks.

They are definitely not winning anyone to your point of view.

-^.^-

Andrew · Aug 22, 2002

Let me put a simple question to you Susan,

Based on the many scriptures I've quoted, do you yourself believe God only blesses you with spiritual things in this physical earth life? eg if you need a car, food to eat or new clothes, you can't pray for these things cos God doesnt & will not bless you with such things. Louis was preaching that God ONLY blesses spiritually. That's not Bible. And if its not from God, it doesnt take a rocket scientist to figure out where the teaching originated from.

and please do not misquote or falsely accuse me. I did not say you were satanic, I said the theology was satanic (read post #112 carefully). I am against the false teaching and/or what the Bible calls "doctrines of demons". Shldnt you be too?

Loser For Jesus · Aug 22, 2002

Originally posted by Andrew
"Here's the bottom line from Matthew 6:24. If you don't hate money, you love it. If you love money, you will hate God."

More like your bottome line. here's a revelation. millions of Christians love God and neither love nor hate money. they just take it as a blessing from God and use it for themselves, families and kingdom work.

These are not my words, nor is it my bottom line. It's 100% clear and simple Scripture.

The fact is, Andrew, you're doing an excellent job of proving Jesus' point. You've already described His teaching on this as "ludicrous" and now you're dismissing Him entirely by informing us of the "revelation" that "millions of Christians" are acting completely contrary to what He specifically says is impossible.

Matthew 6:24
"No one can serve two masters. Either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and Money."

So which is it, Andrew? Do you hate money and love God? Are you devoted to God and so despise money?

Or, as it appears from your posts, is it the other way around?

love in Christ,

Malcolm

PS. I don't get a paycheck, nor do I get raises - and I wouldn't rejoice in them if I did.

MizDoulos · Aug 22, 2002

Note: Since the discussion has deteriorated into insults and belittling (Rule 1 - no flamming), the thread has been closed.

eldermike · Aug 22, 2002

Ok, listen up.

We hold different views in this area of discussion. Let's not attack our differences but rather let's debate them with respect.

No personal remarks about ones doctrine, just make good arguments for yours and leave the remarks about others in your mind.

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