How can we be happy when people we know will go to hell?

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Doer

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'I don't think this is so. God is just and merciful."

Let's take a look at that statement shall we? What does God being just mean to you? To me it means that God must punish those who break His laws, the Ten Commandments.

Let's take a look at a hypothetical witness encounter. Let's say I'm witnessing to an unsaved person, using the law in my presentation of the Gospel message. Here's how it has typically played out in the past.

Me: Have you ever stolen anything, irregardless of value?

Unsaved person: Yes.

Me: What does that make you?

Unsaved person: A thief.

Me: Have you ever told a lie?

Unsaved person: Yep.

Me: What does that make you?

Unsaved person: A liar.

Me: Have you ever used God's name as a cuss word, or to express frustration or anger?

Unsaved person: Yes.

Me: This is a very serious offense called blasphemy. You have taken the name of the creator of everything in the universe, of you and me, and used it as a way to express anger and frustration.

Me: Have you ever looked at a woman and had a sexual thought about her?

Unsaved person: Oh yeah.

Me: Jesus said that any man who looks upon a woman with lust has comitted adultery with her alreadyin his heart.
Okay, so by your own admission, you are a thieving, lying, blasphemous, adulterer at heart and you have to stand before a holy and just God on Judgment Day. If God is just and must punish those who break His laws, where do you think you will end up, in Heaven or in Hell?

*Now anybody who is being honest will know that they are going to Hell, if God is just, because they have broken His laws.

Me: But God made a way for us to avoid going to Hell. He showed mercy by sending His son to die on a cross in our place, to take the punishment that we all have earned through our sin. So in order to receive the gift of salvation, you must repent of your sin, that means acknowlege that you are a sinner, confess it to God, tell him that you are sorry for the sin you have comitted, tell him you want to turn from that sin, and put your faith and trust in His son Jesus Christ, and you will be saved from God's wrath.

"We only have a temporal lifespan; eternal damnation, condemnation or judgement is not a just punishment/reward for such."

Yes it is. When you are shown that you have broken the laws of God, Hell is the punishment for breaking those Laws. That is God's standard, 'break my laws, go to Hell'. You earned it, all by yourself. Let's look at it another way. If you were standing before a judge and had been found guilty of breaking some laws in this country and told him in your defense, that you only broke a few laws, and that you were really a good person and your good deeds outweighed your bad deeds, would you really expect a just judge to let you go free? Just because you said you were a good person and you were sorry for what you had done? No! Of course not! Justice would not be served at all, if he just let you go. So why should we expect God to let us off the hook, just because we say we're sorry?

Following your line of thinking, Jesus didn't have to die on the cross to take our punishment. I mean, if God is just going to let us in to Heaven because He's so merciful, we don't need a savior. Because what are we being saved from? Without the law to convict you of your sin and show that you are guilty, the cross doesn't make any sense. If you have plaecd your trust in Jesus, why have you done so, if God is just mercy and love and is going to let you into Heaven regardless of what you've done in opposition to Him?

"Just my opinion. A lot of pastors, evangelists will use the 'Hell rap' to scare people into their religion. Be careful who you listen to."

Based upon your statements, I am going to beg you to reconsider your position on this whole doctrine of Hell. Jesus spoke more about Hell than He did about Heaven. Why do you think that is? Was He just trying to scare people into doing what is right? I don't think so.

God does not lie, he said we will perish in Hell if we do not accept him as our lord and savior, and repent of our sins.
 
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Nadiine

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I really sympathize with the OP.

But we really don't know what our loved ones last thought was before they passed. It could of been of God and sorrow for their sins. When it comes to crunch time in ones life, we think or behave differently. Even if that crunch time in a nanosecond.

don't give up hope and dont dwell on the negative. God judges justly, we leave it in His hands. His wll be done.
His will is our will also, what ever that may be when it comes to loved ones that have died.

I definitely agree - we really can't know for sure. We can speculate & assume, but we have no real proof either way.
That's a good point & one that I HOPE would bring some comfort.

One thing is for sure, God doesn't send torment to our minds to keep us remembering terrible things... that is not how God operates.
I have relatives that I believe aren't with God right now too, but I keep in mind that they made a conscious decision & God is only honoring their wishes. (and I refuse to dwell on those things, I'll work all I can to keep others from that place).
 
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Zecryphon

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Well we should'nt be. We should everthing in our to help them. But it is up to them so save themself.
"But it is up to them so save themself."

You realize this contradicts the Bible right? The Bible makes it clear that there is nothing we can do to save ourselves. So how do you justify this comment you have made?
 
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jasper123

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I think all the time about my close family members who have died, and those who will die as in the future, who are not Christians. The Bible says they will go to hell. How can we be happy as Christians in that knowledge? Thinking of this torments me daily!

Thank you.
Augustine said God is just, if a person is just God will
not refuse him.
Ron
 
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Athanasian Creed

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K, I have to rep your post here... just the other day I watched "the Way of the Master", and they relayed the new statistics on large groups of people who accepted the Lord in one year.

As it boiled down with the "LOVE ONLY" (lack of witnessing about sin, penalties of sin etc), 90 out of the 100 FELL AWAY from their original committment to Christ.
10 out 100 actually last past one year... that's a horrible stat!
And this is all with the "love only" method of witnessing.

People MUST KNOW what they are being saved FROM in order to appreciate God's precious gift & realize the need for His precious sacrifice for us.

:thumbsup:


Here's something everyone should do - check the book of Acts and notice how little (if ever) God's love is emphasized. Then, check how many times the word "repent" comes up.

Those that over emphasis the love of God and under emphasis the fact that God calls every man to repent and change his ways will be shocked! ;)



Ray :wave:
 
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Athanasian Creed

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Augustine said God is just, if a person is just God will not refuse him. Ron

Chapter and verse please??! :eek:

The Bible clearly says that we are saved only by God's grace through our faith in Him. It is only in the name of Jesus and faith in His name that salvation is found...not if a person is just or not. Being 'just' doesn't save anyone! ;)



Ray :wave:
 
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Nadiine

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Chapter and verse please??! :eek:

The Bible clearly says that we are saved only by God's grace through our faith in Him. It is only in the name of Jesus and faith in His name that salvation is found...not if a person is just or not. Being 'just' doesn't save anyone! ;)

:thumbsup: Hopefully that's what Jasper meant by 'just'.

But I can't agree more, there is 1 way to God the Father, & it's thru Jesus Christ alone via faith.

His blood removes sin, nothing else. :angel:
 
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Athanasian Creed

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I think all the time about my close family members who have died, and those who will die as in the future, who are not Christians. The Bible says they will go to hell. How can we be happy as Christians in that knowledge? Thinking of this torments me daily!

Thank you.

The Word of God is quite clear that those who die outside of the Father's forgiveness through the sacrifice of Jesus His Son will spend eternity (forever AND ever) in the fiery Lake of Fire, tormented day and night without end! This is an undisputable fact!

Knowing this fact, it should spur all of us who profess Christ as Lord and Saviour to be the best witnesses for Him we can be so that those we know and love will not have to spend eternity in a place described in the Bible where "the worm dieth not nor is the fire quenched!" :eek:

I pity those who believe hell will be a place to party (if there is such a person who really, in their heart of hearts believes this)

May God use us in these last days to be bold ambassadors of "our great God and Saviour" Jesus Christ! :thumbsup:



Ray :wave:
 
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ranyhyn

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I pity those who believe hell will be a place to party (if there is such a person who really, in their heart of hearts believes this)

Whenever I think about this kind of thing here it reminds me of the joke about the guy who goes to hell and he is shown everything he likes to indulge in. Golf, partying, women, etc. He then goes to heaven and it's all dull...just people with wings and harps. He chooses to go to hell. When he gets back all he sees is death, destruction, trash, etc.

He asks the devil what happened...and the answer is

"Yesterday you saw the campaign...today you voted"

As for the OP...we certainly cannot be happy knowing that others are going to hell. Especially when some of those could be our family members. But remember that not everyone will be saved and go to heaven. God's gift is given to all of us but not everyone will accept that gift. The fact that some will reject it should give us pause and make us work that much harder to build the kingdom of heaven. We should try to take as many with us as we can.

Rest assured that at some point in time every tongue shall confess and every knee shall bow and know that Jesus is Lord. Every day we have here is another opportunity for us to minister to someone. Pray that God would send someone across your path that you might minister the Word of God to. You may not witness that person getting saved but you may very well plant the seed and someone else will reap the harvest. Either way the job is done. Someone else may plant the seed that you may one day harvest...we're all in this together ...
 
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VCViking

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I know how you feel. I have thoughts like that too - I'm sure you'll get plenty of posts that deny Hell exists & that God is too loving to send people there forever, etc etc.
All I will say is, IT'S IN THE BIBLE everywhere as a sobering fact.

You know, it's really unproductive if you think about it. There's NOTHING we can do about our loved ones who reject Christ after they've gone...
You can't change anything, so it's pretty futile to continue thinking of it; - it might also be an attack that Satan is bringing against you to get your attn. on something unproductive and possibly destructive...

Aside from that, I don't think we're supposed to dwell on negative things like that becuz it steals our JOY in the Lord and I think it makes us unproductive over time. Those thoughts can really turn against God or truth if you let them... it can build doubt, bitterness, anger, etc.

Be careful where you let mind stay. Guard it.

Here's a verse that might help:
Phil. 4:8
Finally, brethren, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is of good repute, if there is any excellence and if anything worthy of praise, dwell on these things.


:thumbsup: :amen:
 
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Athanasian Creed

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Ray Comfort And Kirk Cameon are awesome! Great ministry.

I second your sentiment - no fluff in the Gospel they present. Every time i hear KK being interviewed, the more impressed i am of his committment to Christ and the truth of God's Word. He puts alot of emphasis on sound doctrine, which is always a joy to my heart! :thumbsup:



Ray :wave:
 
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Svt4Him

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Ray Comfort does talk about this in an excellent way, and my Bible teacher once said that the reason people don't witness more is because we don't really believe in hell like we should. It breaks my heart to think about what will happen, and I hope one day it will break it enough that I move out of my self-serving comfort zone and be a witness to get people off that path.

This is an excerpt of an e-mail to Ray from an atheist.
"You are really convinced that you've got all the answers. You've really got yourself tricked into believing that you're 100% right. Well, let me tell you just one thing. Do you consider yourself to be compassionate of other humans? If you're right, as you say you are, and you believe that, then how can you sleep at night? When you speak with me, you are speaking with someone who you believe is walking directly into eternal damnation, into an endless onslaught of horrendous pain which your 'loving' god created, yet you stand by and do nothing.
If you believed one bit that thousands every day were falling into an eternal and unchangeable fate, you should be running the streets mad with rage at their blindness. That's equivalent to standing on a street corner and watching every person that passes you walk blindly directly into the path of a bus and die, yet you stand idly by and do nothing. You're just twiddling your thumbs, happy in the knowledge that one day that 'walk' signal will shine your way across the road.
Think about it. Imagine the horrors Hell must have in store if the Bible is true. You're just going to allow that to happen and not care about saving anyone but yourself? If you're right then you're an uncaring, unemotional and purely selfish (expletive) that has no right to talk about subjects such as love and caring."



Quoted with permission from Livingwaters.com
 
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Nadiine

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Ray Comfort does talk about this in an excellent way, and my Bible teacher once said that the reason people don't witness more is because we don't really believe in hell like we should. It breaks my heart to think about what will happen, and I hope one day it will break it enough that I move out of my self-serving comfort zone and be a witness to get people off that path.

This is an excerpt of an e-mail to Ray from an atheist.
"You are really convinced that you've got all the answers. You've really got yourself tricked into believing that you're 100% right. Well, let me tell you just one thing. Do you consider yourself to be compassionate of other humans? If you're right, as you say you are, and you believe that, then how can you sleep at night? When you speak with me, you are speaking with someone who you believe is walking directly into eternal damnation, into an endless onslaught of horrendous pain which your 'loving' god created, yet you stand by and do nothing.
If you believed one bit that thousands every day were falling into an eternal and unchangeable fate, you should be running the streets mad with rage at their blindness. That's equivalent to standing on a street corner and watching every person that passes you walk blindly directly into the path of a bus and die, yet you stand idly by and do nothing. You're just twiddling your thumbs, happy in the knowledge that one day that 'walk' signal will shine your way across the road.
Think about it. Imagine the horrors Hell must have in store if the Bible is true. You're just going to allow that to happen and not care about saving anyone but yourself? If you're right then you're an uncaring, unemotional and purely selfish (expletive) that has no right to talk about subjects such as love and caring."

Quoted with permission from Livingwaters.com

Well, that type of letter as I percieve it is purely Satanic in seeking to push GUILT onto a Christian. God Saves Souls, we do not.
As if we're called to run out & go ahead of God just to feel like we're DOING something to 'save' people.
GOD sends us out where we will be used.

I also remember Jesus when He told the Father that his mission was over.
Jesus left this earth with MANY unsaved, and many that He didn't even speak with (ie. gentile nations etc).

Jesus knows more than all of us what hell is about & like -- He created the place. Why didn't JESUS scramble around flustered & panicked about the lost souls He couldn't reach?

God will reach every soul THAT WILL RESPOND TO HIS CALL for salvation. (& if you're a calvanist, there's really nothing to get paranoid about becuz only the saved WILL respond to God!).

I think this atheist should read John 17, Jesus' prayer in the Garden to the Father.
 
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'I don't think this is so. God is just and merciful."

Let's take a look at that statement shall we? What does God being just mean to you? To me it means that God must punish those who break His laws, the Ten Commandments.

Let's take a look at a hypothetical witness encounter. Let's say I'm witnessing to an unsaved person, using the law in my presentation of the Gospel message. Here's how it has typically played out in the past.

Me: Have you ever stolen anything, irregardless of value?

Unsaved person: Yes.

Me: What does that make you?

Unsaved person: A thief.

Me: Have you ever told a lie?

Unsaved person: Yep.

Me: What does that make you?

Unsaved person: A liar.

Me: Have you ever used God's name as a cuss word, or to express frustration or anger?

Unsaved person: Yes.

Me: This is a very serious offense called blasphemy. You have taken the name of the creator of everything in the universe, of you and me, and used it as a way to express anger and frustration.

Me: Have you ever looked at a woman and had a sexual thought about her?

Unsaved person: Oh yeah.

Me: Jesus said that any man who looks upon a woman with lust has comitted adultery with her alreadyin his heart.
Okay, so by your own admission, you are a thieving, lying, blasphemous, adulterer at heart and you have to stand before a holy and just God on Judgment Day. If God is just and must punish those who break His laws, where do you think you will end up, in Heaven or in Hell?

*Now anybody who is being honest will know that they are going to Hell, if God is just, because they have broken His laws.

Me: But God made a way for us to avoid going to Hell. He showed mercy by sending His son to die on a cross in our place, to take the punishment that we all have earned through our sin. So in order to receive the gift of salvation, you must repent of your sin, that means acknowlege that you are a sinner, confess it to God, tell him that you are sorry for the sin you have comitted, tell him you want to turn from that sin, and put your faith and trust in His son Jesus Christ, and you will be saved from God's wrath.

"We only have a temporal lifespan; eternal damnation, condemnation or judgement is not a just punishment/reward for such."

Yes it is. When you are shown that you have broken the laws of God, Hell is the punishment for breaking those Laws. That is God's standard, 'break my laws, go to Hell'. You earned it, all by yourself. Let's look at it another way. If you were standing before a judge and had been found guilty of breaking some laws in this country and told him in your defense, that you only broke a few laws, and that you were really a good person and your good deeds outweighed your bad deeds, would you really expect a just judge to let you go free? Just because you said you were a good person and you were sorry for what you had done? No! Of course not! Justice would not be served at all, if he just let you go. So why should we expect God to let us off the hook, just because we say we're sorry?

Following your line of thinking, Jesus didn't have to die on the cross to take our punishment. I mean, if God is just going to let us in to Heaven because He's so merciful, we don't need a savior. Because what are we being saved from? Without the law to convict you of your sin and show that you are guilty, the cross doesn't make any sense. If you have plaecd your trust in Jesus, why have you done so, if God is just mercy and love and is going to let you into Heaven regardless of what you've done in opposition to Him?

"Just my opinion. A lot of pastors, evangelists will use the 'Hell rap' to scare people into their religion. Be careful who you listen to."

Based upon your statements, I am going to beg you to reconsider your position on this whole doctrine of Hell. Jesus spoke more about Hell than He did about Heaven. Why do you think that is? Was He just trying to scare people into doing what is right? I don't think so.


We make our own afterlife. You'll see! Everyone gets saved in the end.
 
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Zecryphon

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We make our own afterlife. You'll see! Everyone gets saved in the end.
For us to even have an afterlife we need to repent of our sin and and put our faith and trust in Jesus Christ. The Bible is clear on this. Your statement suggests that it is by works that we earn an afterlife, which is a teaching that totally contradicts scripture.
 
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Nadiine

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We make our own afterlife. You'll see! Everyone gets saved in the end.
The bible doesn't teach universal salvation.
Mat 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
Mat 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

Rev 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Rev 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet (human) that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet [are], and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Rev. 20:10 And the devil who decived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also (humans); and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

John 17 Jesus says Judas was 'the son of perdition' and was LOST.

If we ALL end up saved, we have zero reason or incentive to OBEY God in this life when we make it to heaven despite our lifestyles.
 
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