Saint or Sinner?

Status
Not open for further replies.

Blackhawk

Monkey Boy
Feb 5, 2002
4,930
73
52
Ft. Worth, tx
Visit site
✟22,925.00
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
I reread what I posted and all I can say is Huh? myself. I am a saint who still sins. God justified me and made me a saint. However I am not fully sanctified. That is my fault and not God's. God did make me that way. I want to be a real saint. I want to be like Jesus. Except that I know I am not God.

blackhawk
 
Upvote 0

franklin

Sexed up atheism = Pantheism
May 21, 2002
8,103
257
Bible belt
Visit site
✟9,942.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Private
Originally posted by parousia70
Remember, I thank God I was born a sinner with the opportuinity to enjoy the ministry of forgiveness of my sins in Christ. 

Hithere brother Pete,  I agree with the second part of your quote but the first part I'm having a slight problem with.  For a long time I believed in the doctrine of original sin which teaches that we are all born with a sinful nature.  I've recently come to look closer at the scriptures and I don't believe that is what the scripture is really teaching.  Let me ask you a question, don't you think that if a Christian believes he is born with a sinful nature and sins unavoidably because of that nature, he is not likely to view his sins as the serious crimes they really are? 
 
Upvote 0

Slave2SinNoMore

Well-Known Member
May 30, 2002
477
16
57
Visit site
✟947.00
Faith
Christian
franklin,
The Bible tells us that when we become Christians, our sin nature is crucified. We are new creations. Therefore, if we sin after becoming Christians, in a way it's even more unexcusable, because we can't use the tired old excuse "well, I'm just a sinner by nature". We have to face the fact that we sin because we decide to listen to Satan's temptations rather than the Holy Spirit which lives in us and desires for us to do what's right.
 
Upvote 0

franklin

Sexed up atheism = Pantheism
May 21, 2002
8,103
257
Bible belt
Visit site
✟9,942.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Private
Originally posted by Andrew
'Original' sin? I think that came from David who said that he was a sinner from conception. It also comes from Roms 5, where it talks about how sin and death entered the human race via Adam's sin.

Well Hello Andrew, If David intended to affirm that he was literally "shapen in iniquity and conceived in sin," then he affirmed absolute nonsense, and he charged his Creator with making him a sinner; for David knew that God was his Maker (Psalm 100:3; 119:73; 139:13-14). It may be objected that God created only Adam and Eve, and that the rest of mankind descended from them by natural generation. But this objection does not relieve the doctrine of an inherited sin nature of its slander and libel of the character of God. For if man has a sinful nature at birth, who is it who established the laws of procreation under which he would be born with that nature? God, of course. There is no escaping the logical inference that is implicit in the doctrine of an inherited sin nature. It is a blasphemous and slanderous libel on the character of God.
For what better excuse could David make for his sins than the excuse that he was born a sinner? But these are not the words of a man making excuses for his sins; these are the words of a man humbled and deeply repentant for having sinned against God.
 
Upvote 0

Jenna

Senior Veteran
Jun 13, 2002
3,089
192
Michigan
Visit site
✟4,598.00
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Constitution
Praise God for his compassion and love for us. I find it so amazing that in God, we can be two seemingly contrary things at the same time. It is astounding how we can fall to sin and stumble along out paths, yet we can be washed clean of our iniquity and be beautiful to our Lord. I am so happy with the good work that the Lord has done in us. :)
 
Upvote 0

aforchrist33

Active Member
Feb 19, 2002
261
1
75
Maine
Visit site
✟630.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Dear JohnR7;

You asked .....

1. "If you had to choose to be either a saint or sinner"

Answer ..... We can't choose our state of being, we were born with a sinful nature forgiven all sins. (Titus 2:14) :(

2. "To be a saint, then would you be willing to give up all sins"

Answer ..... We are not made saints by our own righteousness but faith in Christ performance, our spirit is willing but our flesh is unable to "give up all sins" (Romans 7:15-25) :holy:
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

franklin

Sexed up atheism = Pantheism
May 21, 2002
8,103
257
Bible belt
Visit site
✟9,942.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Private
    Originally posted by aforchrist33
We can't choose our state of being, we were born with a sinful nature forgiven all sins. (Titus 2:14) :( 

aforchrist33, you might want to check this post/link:

http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=305950#post305950

    
We are not made saints by our own righteousness but faith in Christ performance, our spirit is willing but our flesh is unable to "give up all sins" (Romans 7:15-25) :holy: [/B]


This passage is one of the many that the defenders of the doctrine of original sin depend on to support their theory that we are born with a sinful nature.  Paul uses language in these texts that appears to teach the doctrine of a sinful, physical constitution. But the language that Paul uses is not literal; it is figurative. When the Apostle speaks of the flesh in the sense of being sinful, he is never speaking of the flesh in its literal or physical sense.  Paul teaches in these verses that the Christian is no longer "in the flesh." This makes it clear that when Paul spoke of the "flesh" in the sense of sin, he was not referring to the physical flesh, because if he were, the only way that we could no longer be "in the flesh" would be to no longer be in the body. But Paul was not teaching some strange new doctrine that Christians were now disembodied spirits. He was rather teaching that they were no longer living to gratify their fleshly desires. They were no longer living in sin.

 
 
Upvote 0

aforchrist33

Active Member
Feb 19, 2002
261
1
75
Maine
Visit site
✟630.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Dear Franklin;

Welcome! And thank's for your participation. As for your doctrine of not being born with a sinful nature, I won't give you my theory I'll let God speak to you.

1. Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me. (Psalm 51:5)

2. For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners,  so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous. (Romans 5:19)
 
Upvote 0

franklin

Sexed up atheism = Pantheism
May 21, 2002
8,103
257
Bible belt
Visit site
✟9,942.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Private
  Originally posted by aforchrist33
Welcome! And thank's for your participation. As for your doctrine of not being born with a sinful nature, I won't give you my theory I'll let God speak to you.

Dear aforchrist33, thank you for your participation also.... BTW, it's not my doctrine, it's God's doctrine.  I wasn't giving you my theory, I was giving you God's word.  God's word doesn't support that He created us with a sin nature.  That's man's interpretation.


 
1. Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me. (Psalm 51:5) [/B]


If David intended to affirm that he was literally "shapen in iniquity and conceived in sin," then he affirmed absolute nonsense, and he charged his Creator with making him a sinner; for David knew that God was his Maker (Psalm 100:3; 119:73; 139:13-14). It may be objected that God created only Adam and Eve, and that the rest of mankind descended from them by natural generation. But this objection does not relieve the doctrine of an inherited sin nature of its slander and libel of the character of God. For if man has a sinful nature at birth, who is it who established the laws of procreation under which he would be born with that nature? God, of course. There is no escaping the logical inference that is implicit in the doctrine of an inherited sin nature. It is a blasphemous and slanderous libel on the character of God.
For what better excuse could David make for his sins than the excuse that he was born a sinner? But these are not the words of a man making excuses for his sins; these are the words of a man humbled and deeply repentant for having sinned against God. 

 
2. For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners,  so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous. (Romans 5:19) [/B]


Actually I posted something on Romans 5 in this post: http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=305950#post305950
 
Upvote 0

franklin

Sexed up atheism = Pantheism
May 21, 2002
8,103
257
Bible belt
Visit site
✟9,942.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Private
Originally posted by lambslove
You have an unorthodox, yet interesting theology franklin. Do you mind telling us what church and denomination you are affliated with?

Actually Lambs, I would rather be on the side of scripture then on the side of ill-conceived theology and/or traditional orthodoxy.  I don't have any private theology and I am continually seeking the truth of scripture. I have recently come to learn of new truths revealed to me through the scripture that has compelled me to make some uncomfortable changes in the cherished beliefs that have been deeply routed in me for so long. I had to make the decision that God's truth is more important to me than personal beliefs and loyalty to that truth than the traditions and the commandments of men. When the word of God shatters cherished beliefs, are you, Lambs, willing to be shattered no matter how painful it is? If you want to know about what denomination and church I belong to, just go to my profile.  Thank you for asking where I stand.  Maybe I'll ask the same from you someday.  But for now, maybe you can answer the quesion I asked you in this post.  It's something to think about and take into serious consideration.

In Christ..... FR
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

aforchrist33

Active Member
Feb 19, 2002
261
1
75
Maine
Visit site
✟630.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Dear Franklin;

You said ..... "I have recently come to learn of new truths revealed to me" :rolleyes:

I would be very careful if I were you to spread a new personal doctrine. You may wan't to keep these scriptures in mind.

1. For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; (2 Timothy 4:3)

2. To whom we gave place by subjection, no, not for an hour; that the truth of the gospel might continue with you. (Galatians 2:5)

3. That we hencefort be no more children, tosses to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive; (Ephesians 4:14)

 
 
Upvote 0

franklin

Sexed up atheism = Pantheism
May 21, 2002
8,103
257
Bible belt
Visit site
✟9,942.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Private
  Originally posted by aforchrist33
You said ..... "I have come to learn of new truths revealed to me" :rolleyes:

aforchrist, and what action do you take when the scripture reveals to you that what you have learned in the past is false teachings and false doctrines? Do you cling on to those cherished beliefs even though you know it goes against the word of God?  The latter is the easer road to take of course. The wide road that leads to destruction.


 
I would be very careful if I were you to spread a new personal doctrine. You may wan't to keep these scriptures in mind. 1. For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves, having itching ears; (2 Timothy 4:3) That we hencefort be no more children, tosses to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive; (Ephesians 4:14)       [/B]


Just because a doctrine has been taught for 2000 years from the imaginations of man's interpretations and church historians, what makes you think your not believing someone elses personal doctrine? The truth is not found in the imaginations of man, but in the word of God. If the doctrine you have been taught doesn't pass the test of scripture it needs to labeled and rejected as false.  (No rolling eyeballs) .......


 
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

franklin

Sexed up atheism = Pantheism
May 21, 2002
8,103
257
Bible belt
Visit site
✟9,942.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Private
Originally posted by suzie
"For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God" Romans 3:23....without exception all humans sin. It is our nature to sin. We cannot help it.

Well suzie, your right we all sin just like Adam & Eve sinned and it wasn't because of a sinful nature that they sinned now was it?  If they didn't have a sin nature then how did they sin?   All this false teaching that God created us with a sinful nature and that we can't help but sin is unscriptural and void of all logic and common sence!  We sin because of temptation to commit sin just like Adam & Eve gave into their own temptation that caused them to sin!  

James tells us how all men are tempted. "But every man is tempted when he is drawn away of his own lust and enticed. Then when lust hath conceived it bringeth forth sin, and sin when it is finished bringeth forth death" (James 1:14-15).

Sin is not a substance that has physical properties like a disease that can be passed on from one person to another.  The Scripture says, "Sin is the transgression of the law." (1John 3:4). So, according to the Scripture, sin is an act or a choice that transgresses the law of God 
 
Upvote 0
Status
Not open for further replies.