The Economic Collapse After The Rapture

Status
Not open for further replies.

mcfly1960

Active Member
Feb 23, 2002
159
2
Visit site
✟377.00
Faith
Protestant
the 6th seal may not actually be God's wrath...nor in the 7 trumpets. God's wrath may not be come until the final stage of the great tribulation, the 7 vials 

It is the Lamb that is opening the seals.  Only He is found worthy. The opening of the 7th seal produces the 7 angels with the 7 trumpets.  One of the 4 beasts before the throne of the Lamb gives the 7 angels the 7 vials of wrath. 

Note that the Bible doesn't show the 144,000 getting saved during the tribulation. It's possible they were saved before the tribulation began.

If they were saved during the Church age, they would be part of the Church.  There would not have to be a distinction between the "144,000" and the "great multitude".  Note that there is no mention of the Lamb in the description of the "144,000" in Rev 7:1-8, but the Lamb is mentioned 3 times in the description of the "144,000" in Rev 14:1-5.   By Rev 14:1, these "144,000" are standing with the Lamb on Mt. Zion, with "His Father's name" written in their foreheads.

Is there a verse which says grace ends before the tribulation? Isn't the covenant of grace the "everlasting covenant(Revelation 14:6) How could we Christians who will be in the tribulation after the cross and after Pentecost (i.e. not OT) who have washed our "robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb" (Revelation 7:14) and have "the faith of Jesus" (Revelation 14:12) and are "in the Lord" (Revelation 14:13) not be in his grace and not be in his body?

I believe that these verses refer back to the tribulation of the Church age, having been fulfilled in history and are still being fulfilled.  Certainly, they are pre-wrath.

The everlasting covenant of grace is extended only to the elect, both of the wild and natural branches of spiritual Israel.  Most assuredly, there is a point in time, beyond which there are "no more chances" given.  Paul reveals a mystery involving a time designated as the "the fullness of the Gentiles", beyond which I see "no more chances" given the Gentiles, since they are "full":"For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in."(Romans 11:25). 
 
Upvote 0

JohnR7

Well-Known Member
Feb 9, 2002
25,258
209
Ohio
✟29,532.00
Faith
Pentecostal
Marital Status
Married
Originally posted by postrib
Note that during the tribulation nobody in heaven says God's wrath "is come" until near the end of the tribulation, after the 7th trumpet (Revelation 11:15, 18),

Rev. 11:15
    Then the seventh angel sounded: And there were loud voices in heaven, saying, "The kingdoms of this world have become the kingdoms of our Lord and of His Christ, and He shall reign forever and ever!"

If the wrath of God is not poured out 'tell after this event. Then this must take place before the "tribulation" can happen. It is through us that the Kingdoms of this world, become the Kingdoms of God. We are being sent forth to conquer this world for Jesus, so that whosoever is willing to submit to His rule and authority will be saved.

In vs 18 we see the servants, prophets and saints are rewarded. But those who destroy the earth shall be destroyed. Our job it so build up, encourage and strength. Those who tear down will be destroyed.
 
Upvote 0

postrib

Well-Known Member
Feb 7, 2002
508
0
✟958.00
Faith
Christian
...It is the Lamb that is opening the seals...
Note that all it says is that Jesus "opens" the seals (Revelation 6:1). Does this mean that he is the one behind them or that he is at that point allowing Satan to bring them about? (Did Pandora bring about all the suffering that came from the box she opened?) Similarly with the trumpets. Are they expressing God's wrath or announcing events brought about by Satan's wrath?

...the Church age...
Note that the Bible doesn't refer to a "church age," but instead says that the church is "throughout all ages, world without end" (Ephesians 3:21).

..."the fullness of the Gentiles"...
When will "the fulness of the Gentiles be come in?" (Romans 11:25) In the pre-trib view, will no Gentiles be saved in the trib? Are the great multitude of us Christians in the tribulation "of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues" (Revelation 7:9, 14) all Israel?
 
Upvote 0

mcfly1960

Active Member
Feb 23, 2002
159
2
Visit site
✟377.00
Faith
Protestant
Note that the Bible doesn't refer to a "church age," but instead says that the church is "throughout all ages, world without end" (Ephesians 3:21).

This is true, but only for the elect body. Some day the door will be shut.  This is the door that only Christ can open and shut. When open, no man can shut it, and when shut, no man can open it. (Revelation 3:7).

"And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut." Matthew 25:10

"16 And they that went in, went in male and female of all flesh, as God had commanded him: and the LORD shut him in.
17 And the flood was forty days upon the earth; and the waters increased, and bare up the ark, and it was lift up above the earth." Genesis 7:16-17

In the pre-trib view, will no Gentiles be saved in the trib?

We may have a clue from John 6:66: "From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him".

The tribulation referred to in Revelation 7:9-14 must refer to the time before the "fullness of the Gentiles" (equivalent to the days before Noah entered the ark and the door was shut).  


 
 
Upvote 0

postrib

Well-Known Member
Feb 7, 2002
508
0
✟958.00
Faith
Christian
...the door will be shut...
But note that the door is closed at Christ's coming (Matthew 25:10, compare Luke 13:24-28), which Jesus had just finished saying would be "immediately after the tribulation" (Matthew 24:29-31). There's no 3rd coming of Christ.
...The tribulation referred to in Revelation 7:9-14 must refer to the time <I>before</I> the "fullness of the Gentiles"...
I believe the "great multitude" that "came out of great tribulation" (Revelation 7:9, 14) will be those of us Christians who will enter the tribulation and die in the war, famine, persecution, and cataclysm of the seals which occur in the chapter just prior (Revelation 6).
 
Upvote 0

rollinTHUNDER

Veteran
Dec 30, 2001
1,936
13
Central Florida USA
Visit site
✟22,549.00
Country
United States
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Libertarian
Originally posted by crd253
To rollinTHUNDER - I would very much like to know on what do you base your belief in the rapture?

Hello crd253,

I base it on the truth of the scriptures, through the guidance of the Holy Spirit. Seek and He will guide you into all truth. Pray for wisdom and understanding. Lean not on your own understanding.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums
Status
Not open for further replies.